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Greetings Thekla. Why is it so important to RCs and Orthodox concerning the "perpetual virginity" of mary?bbbbbbb -
You've missed my point per scripture entirely.
It is a parallel -- and does belong in this discussion. We are discussing the verification of teachings. We teach that the NT is authentic and the ever-virginity of Mary is authentic using the same standard (canon/measure), which can be summarised as tradition. If you distrust tradition, how can you authenticate the NT absent tradition ?
If you want verification, it would be to the point to drop the bias of cultural mileau.
Ok thks Thekla. Glad to see the RCs and Othodox in agreement on that.9. the verses requesting the intercession of the Virgin have survived in the EO/OO/RC verbatim (allowing for translation) for at least just under 1800 years when compared to the findings of the early 3rd c. text found in the mid 20th c. (Egypt). Must have some importance to the early and later Churches to survive that long.
Greetings Thekla. Why is it so important to RCs and Orthodox concerning the "perpetual virginity" of mary?...
Its important because
1. it is Christological (ultimately, it refers back to God's plan/will, the person of Christ and His identity, the fulfillment of His prophecy and promise, the calling of each to fulfill his/her skopos/purpose, the nature of covenant - as mentioned by Katholikos.
2. we see it in scripture
3. it is a direct historical reality that - like other examples - is a witness to the awesomeness of God
4. we consider Mary the "fruit" of the Old Covenant as evidenced in the Incarnation and the fulfillment of the New Covenant
5. she is the first to have Christ within, and is thus an example of the fulfillment that all seek (and when any of us fail to "hear the word of God and keep it, we fall short of our purpose and carrying forth God's will)
6. because everything about Christ, everything He did and does is eternal, is wondrous beyond understanding, and He "Who cannot be contained" was in her, and "He who could not be touched" was cradled by one, He who feeds all of creation was nursed by her, He who is pre-eternal 'stooped/condescended' to be born a helpless infant. Its humbling, mind boggling: "oh wonder of wonders, how do you nurse the Master?"
7. believing it true, to say otherwise is -simply- distortion and slander
I think she means your PV of, say, Mary having sex. You guys argue against Mary's Ever-Virginity, yet you cannot solidly substatiate the opposite view. I think that's a pretty fair statement.
This is pointless. The Genesis of every Marian doctrine is in scripture. The fact that you reject those scripture intepretations is not the same as them not being there. I don't know why you continue to ask for things when you automatically reject them when they are provided.
The brothers of Jesus who traveled in the company of Mary serve as substantiation.
even in what I've read of Celsus, who attacked the character of Mary as part of his argument against Christianity, did not claim she had other children.
prove that they were children of Mary
There is more support for the idea that God is a big bird in scripture than there is for one Marian doctrine.
Psalm 91:4
4He will cover you with his pinions,
and under his wings you will find refuge
Oh, now we are getting somewhere...NOT!
Oh really? So you don't think Mary is the mother of Jesus Christ, the Word, the Son - GOD???
You don't think Mary was a virgin (at least at the birth of Chrsit)?
Are these not Marian doctrines?
εἶπεν δέ τις αὐτῷ ἰδοὺ ἡ μήτηρ σου καὶ οἱ ἀδελφοί σου ἔξω ἑστήκασιν ζητοῦντές σοι λαλῆσαι (Matthew 12:47)
1. the term adelphoi has several meanings
2. the LXX (a template for the way Semitic concepts were translated into Greek) uses the term adelphoi in the broader sense
3. Semitic culture, as well as ME, understands the term in a manner unlike our present culture and era
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