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Speak in Tongues - essential :
- Thread starter Saint JOHN
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why did Jesus nor the 12 ever speak in the angel language? why is there no example of this in the Hebrew bible? and when angels are sent they speak in tongues of this world.
IMO Pauls tongues of angels reference is the most misunderstood passage in the bible.
IMO Pauls tongues of angels reference is the most misunderstood passage in the bible.
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Yet what we see Acts goes against these guidelines. In Acts manifestations of the HS (including tongues) are indiscriminately poured out to all present. Both must be genuine works of the HS so could it be that gifts (charisma) of the HS in Corinthians are different than manifestations of the gift (dorea) of the HS? The bible seems to show us it is.
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jeffinjapan
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stuart lawrence
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Well firstly, I agree with the validity of speaking in tongues today. But don't believe it is a salvation issue. However, according to your belief you must be appalled at Phillip. For according to your belief, he preached the word in Samaria, people were healed, baptised in water, and then he left them in an unsaved state Acts ch8:5-17
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Yes, it's receiving the Holy Spirit, which is after being born again and baptized in water, and does indeed come with evidence that is seen and heard.
33 Therefore being exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He poured out this which you now see and hear. Acts 2:33
- prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit.
14 Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15 who, when they had come down, prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit. 16 For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then they laid hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.
18 And when Simon saw that through the laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Spirit was given, he offered them money, 19 saying, “Give me this power also, that anyone on whom I lay hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Acts 8:14-19
JLB
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ICONO'CLAST
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No one speaks in tongues, or prays in tongues today, nobody.
It is not essential and was not essential back then either.
All believers are indwelt by the Spirit of God.
If you are making silly rhyming noises, that is not tongues....just silly rhyming noises....you can stop doing that now.
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GirdYourLoins
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Speaking in tongues is a gift at work in the Church today. As evidence of this I have and have witnessed people speaking in tongues and interpretations and have had no doubt that it was from God. I have also (but not myself) witnessed people speaking in "other tongues" which is slightly different. It is the Spirit speaking through them in a language they do not know. On several occasions people have said that the language being spoken was their native language including one who was something like a Russian gypsy that spoke a very rare language and God spoke directly to her in her own language through the preacher speaking in tongues. The preacher was not aware what language it was and did not know that language. I also know and have seen people speak in tongues uncontrollably and were even visibly distressed at not being in control of what they were saying. They have said they were not able to stop. Often they will have interpretations and I have no doubt it is genuine.
But it is not essential for salvation to speak in tongues and I am convinced there are people in the Church who fake it. I try to not judge people and certainly not based on whether they speak in tongues. If what they are saying makes me think they are not saved I will try to lead them to salvation and the confession of Christ. If they have done that I will have fellowship and discipleship with them, but to say they are or are not saved is for God to judge, not us, and to say it is essential is in my opinion wrong. However, the Bible is clear in saying that we should desire the spiritual gifts of which this is one. Anyone who denies the spiritual gifts is in my opinion denying the work of the Holy Spirit.
Question for those that think tongues and the spiritual gifts do not apply today and were only for the early church.
Can you prove from scripture that tongues and any other gifts are not for all believers?
We will have some differences, but if you can prove what you believe with scripture and it withstands scrutiny I will accept it as a valid belief and if I am going to disagree with it I will also need a valid interpretation of scripture. This is the yardstick I use to judge Christian belief. I can fully accept that we will have differences of opinion and practices, but believe that God uses these differences to bring believers into a Church that is "right" for that person. The important thing is to be Bible believing and born again. If you can prove your point and it cant be doisproven by scripture I will accept it as valid.
But it is not essential for salvation to speak in tongues and I am convinced there are people in the Church who fake it. I try to not judge people and certainly not based on whether they speak in tongues. If what they are saying makes me think they are not saved I will try to lead them to salvation and the confession of Christ. If they have done that I will have fellowship and discipleship with them, but to say they are or are not saved is for God to judge, not us, and to say it is essential is in my opinion wrong. However, the Bible is clear in saying that we should desire the spiritual gifts of which this is one. Anyone who denies the spiritual gifts is in my opinion denying the work of the Holy Spirit.
Question for those that think tongues and the spiritual gifts do not apply today and were only for the early church.
Can you prove from scripture that tongues and any other gifts are not for all believers?
We will have some differences, but if you can prove what you believe with scripture and it withstands scrutiny I will accept it as a valid belief and if I am going to disagree with it I will also need a valid interpretation of scripture. This is the yardstick I use to judge Christian belief. I can fully accept that we will have differences of opinion and practices, but believe that God uses these differences to bring believers into a Church that is "right" for that person. The important thing is to be Bible believing and born again. If you can prove your point and it cant be doisproven by scripture I will accept it as valid.
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A Pentecostal pastor and I were talking about speaking in tongues during lunch after church. I told him I had heard people talking in unintelligible prayer languages during Charismatic services with no one to interpret. It sounded like gibberish. I was skeptical about the value of such behavior. He told me that once in his career he had a lady in his church talking in a modern language that she had not studied before.
If I want to speak in a foreign tongue, I might have to get out my Spanish workbook and start reviewing grammar and vocabulary again. It does not seem prudent as I live in a place where most of the people speak English. I learned it without using it and I forgot it. Four year old children were able to learn a second language while in the presence of someone/people teaching the language. Some people have the talent to learn multiple languages in their lifetime. My brother teaches in a school district where the immigrant students spoke different primary languages. He used Google translate for class handouts. I imagine translation software will become more advanced with artificial intelligence. This need for God to have people who could speak more than one language is required for the teaching of the Gospel to all nations. I think God instructed some people to learn languages, others to study medicine, etc.
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Where in Acts chapter 2 do we see the 3,000 converted and baptized that day speaking in tongues? We don't. You have to be careful using a historical account and applying it to everyone. That is why we have the epistles which establish Christian doctrine.
The Gospel is preached in Acts 3 and we again don't see tongues as gifts.
Acts 17:1-4 the Gospel preached no tongues mentioned.
Does this no mention of gifts of the Holy Spirit mean none were given? Of course not, but again it is your argument that "In Acts manifestations of the HS (including tongues) are indiscriminately poured out to all present." That is not an accurate statement.
Again, this is why it is important to look at the epistles and understand the teachings of the apostles. And as I pointed out Paul said thus:
1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts."
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tampasteve
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No, I do not believe that anyone on here can prove it to you, because we would need proof and scriptures that you consider "valid interpretations" which is exactly why there is disagreement - we interpret the scriptures differently.
I think I am right that tongues as practiced now are not how the Apostles used them or taught they should be used and is generally gibberish. You believe otherwise. This might be one of the "agree to disagree" beliefs, to me it is. I do not think it is wrong to "pray in the spirit", and I also think that some people do have a deeper feeling of communing with the heavens. But I also definitely do not think it means one does not have the Holy Spirit if one does not. I also believe that I feel silly when I have tried it when I was younger and not as aware of the theological beliefs that I hold now.
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Yes. Scripture is clear that there is diversity of gifts and not everyone had the gift of tongues:
1 Cor 12:29 "All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they?
Rom 12:4-6 "For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, so in Christ we, though many, form one body, and each member belongs to all the others. We have different gifts, according to the grace given to each of us. "
1 Cor 12:8-10 "To one there is given through the Spirit a message of wisdom, to another a message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues."
1 Cor 12:17-20 "If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? But in fact God has placed the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be. If they were all one part, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, but one body."
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Albion
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In Pentecostal circles, it seems that everyone loves to tell this story, but no one ever produces anything that would confirm that someone spoke in, say, Russian without having had any knowledge of the language. What studies have shown is that when people mouth unintelligible sounds, they still do it with the accent that is theirs when speaking their usual language--Southern drawl, Bostonian style, New Yawwker style, etc. (in the USA). You know what that means.
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Albion
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You've raised some interesting points there, steve. I wonder what sort of prayer is offered if the person is mouthing unintelligible sounds.
He doesn't know what he is saying, quite obviously, so what's accomplished, I have to wonder? Is it thought to be some sort of vague praise of God? There can't be any petition or anything specific included if it is nothing but sounds to the speaker. Then, too, what would make it preferable to using one's own language in which he says to God exactly what he believes, feels, wants, or is praising God for having done?
(To be clear, I'm not demanding an answer to any of this from you personally just because your post made me think of some of this.)
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The below is apostolic teaching. Bottom line, according to Paul not everyone speaks in tongues. Just as not everyone is a teacher or prophet.
1 Cor. 12:7-11,28-31, "But to each one is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good. 8 For to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, and to another the word of knowledge according to the same Spirit; 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, and to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit, 10 and to another the effecting of miracles, and to another prophecy, and to another the distinguishing of spirits, to another various kinds of tongues, and to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually just as He wills...
28 And God has appointed in the church, first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, administrations, various kinds of tongues. 29 All are not apostles, are they? All are not prophets, are they? All are not teachers, are they? All are not workers of miracles, are they? 30 All do not have gifts of healings, do they? All do not speak with tongues, do they? All do not interpret, do they? 31 But earnestly desire the greater gifts."
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tampasteve
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My mother believes in it, she says she gets "spiritual insights" when she privately prays in tongues. Kind of vague....but that is one person's view. I prefer to pray in my tongue, or occasionally Latin, but I understand both prayer languages I use. I personally believe that prayers I understand mean more, especially to me, but if someone feels closer by privately praying in tongues then I say have at it. To me it just feels silly though. I can say that my insights come when I pray, read the Bible or I am in church.
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JESUS=G.O.A.T
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even if you disagree with him putting a laughing response is just disrespectful. I've seen post on this website I think are just insane but I respect it and move on or address it, if you laugh at peoples arguments instead of saying why you think it's wrong you look immature anyway. For starters I agree with him not just because the bible but mainly because you become so much more powerful after a speaking in tounques experience (this is based off my experience and what i've seen from others too after it) spiritually that I don't see how you can last without the experience. You also see the impact it had on the apostles in the bible as well.
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JESUS=G.O.A.T
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Are you suggesting that JESUS never mentioned to speak in tounques at all?
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