Spanking

[Hammster]

The Shepard rod was use in defense of animals who would attack the flock. They used it to herd the flock how ever i doubt the struck the sheep with it or they would have ran but used it as a guide. I symbol to the sheep, which supports my change tone of voice to correct a child this is how the rod was used with sheep. Funny you think a rod to beat of wolves and to protect the Shepard and sheep should be used the same way on the sheep as on the wolves.

It was also used to break the leg of one who wouldn't stop wandering away. Then the shepherd would gently set the bone and care for the sheep.

 

[Bella Vita]

My husband and I plan to spank it is spoken of in scripture many times. We believe there is a right and wrong way to spank a child not all children need spanked our children may have a personality that doesn't call for it. It will always be used as a last resort and will never be done in anger. There is a huge difference between abuse and spanking. My husband and I were both spanked and we are both very productive members of society.

 

[Hammster]

My husband and I plan to spank it is spoken of in scripture many times. We believe there is a right and wrong way to spank a child not all children need spanked our children may have a personality that doesn't call for it. It will always be used as a last resort and will never be done in anger. There is a huge difference between abuse and spanking. my husband and I were both spanked and we are both very productive members of society.

Good for you.

 

[tall73]

You take this as literal Sheol is the place of the dead now we know Only Jesus can save us from that place, So it is clear God did not mean the rod would save us. The rod is discipline not literal striking. Like i said it is metaphor.

Pro 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
Pro 23:14 If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.



Actually in this case it appears to be talking about saving him from going down to sheol, or in this case, dying through a pattern of poor choices. Jesus saves us from eternal damnation, through grace. However, in the meantime people still do die.

Notice this psalm for instance:

Psa_89:48 What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

What we appear to have here is an example of synonymous Hebrew parallelism. The first thought of the proverb is essentially echoed in the second part, in different words. It is a common technique.

So here the parallel parts would be:



if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.



Now I notice you still did not address the particulars of the rod in this text. Instead you referred to the rod in a different text, when used by a shepherd.


So please tell me the meaning of these words, in this text:

if you strike him with a rod, he will not die

What do you think "strike him with a rod" means?

 

[Bluelion]

Pro 23:13 Do not withhold discipline from a child; if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
Pro 23:14 If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.



Actually in this case it appears to be talking about saving him from going down to sheol, or in this case, dying through a pattern of poor choices. Jesus saves us from eternal damnation, through grace. However, in the meantime people still do die.

Notice this psalm for instance:

Psa_89:48 What man can live and never see death? Who can deliver his soul from the power of Sheol? Selah.

What we appear to have here is an example of synonymous Hebrew parallelism. The first thought of the proverb is essentially echoed in the second part, in different words. It is a common technique.

So here the parallel parts would be:



if you strike him with a rod, he will not die.
If you strike him with the rod, you will save his soul from Sheol.



Now I notice you still did not address the particulars of the rod in this text. Instead you referred to the rod in a different text, when used by a shepherd.


So please tell me the meaning of these words, in this text:

if you strike him with a rod, he will not die

What do you think "strike him with a rod" means?

If we look at the strong both striking and rod have a common word it them punishment.

God is saying to not with hold punishment from the child, or to discipline the child. This is about the 3rd time i have answered it. I get you don't like my answer but that is it.

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

If we look at the strong both striking and rod have a common word it them punishment.

I don't know where you got that definition, but not from Strong's. "Strike" throughout the books of wisdom is most often the Hebrew nakah and means exactly that: strike, hit, smite, beat, even slay.

As I pointed out to Hetta (who seems to have dropped out of the discussion since I did so) the Hebrew word shebet' translated "rod" means rod, staff, branch, offshoot, club or scepter. They are not even remotely related to one another. You're trying to make excuses for a passage you don't like, not the other way around.

 

[tall73]

If we look at the strong both striking and rod have a common word it them punishment.


God is saying to not with hold punishment from the child, or to discipline the child. This is about the 3rd time i have answered it. I get you don't like my answer but that is it.

If you keep giving an answer that does not actually address the words as they are used in the text, then that is not really giving an answer to the question I am asking. I am not asking about your general views on rods. I am giving you the opportunity to actually address the words in that text which speak of striking with a rod. Most people would not have to look up in a dictionary to see what strike with a rod means.

Let's see other examples of the word for strike in the book of Proverbs.


Pro 17:10 A rebuke goes deeper into a man of understanding than a hundred blows into a fool.

Pro 23:29 Who has woe? Who has sorrow? Who has strife? Who has complaining? Who has wounds without cause? Who has redness of eyes?
Pro 23:30 Those who tarry long over wine; those who go to try mixed wine.
Pro 23:31 Do not look at wine when it is red, when it sparkles in the cup and goes down smoothly.
Pro 23:32 In the end it bites like a serpent and stings like an adder.
Pro 23:33 Your eyes will see strange things, and your heart utter perverse things.
Pro 23:34 You will be like one who lies down in the midst of the sea, like one who lies on the top of a mast.
Pro 23:35 "They struck me," you will say, "but I was not hurt; they beat me, but I did not feel it. When shall I awake? I must have another drink."

Both of these are referring to someone striking or beating someone.

Let's take an example outside of Proverbs involving a rod:

Exo 21:20 "When a man strikes his slave, male or female, with a rod and the slave dies under his hand, he shall be avenged.

What was the man doing with a rod to the slave that resulted in his death?

 

[katautumn]

May I just pop in and say that, even though I don't 100% condemn spanking, I think the "I was spanked, and I turned out alright" argument is weak. Some people were molested as children and turned out alright. Does that mean it's okay to molest our children? My mother rarely spanked me. Instead, she'd get angry and pop me across the mouth. I turned out okay, and yet I seriously doubt anyone here would condone her method of discipline as being consistent with the biblical model.

 

[iambren]

How many scriptures does GODS WORD use to describe giving soft talks,grounding,how to stand the child in the corner,send them to their room ?

None that I know of BUT it does talk about not sparing the rod. So we should use spanking first and augment that with other methods. The child fears a spanking, and that is good! It's good to have a holy fear-respect for your elder. It's not a fun thing to do but it's the loving thing to do.

I have two sons 14,16 and I spanked each of them 3X total. I hated it and did it only when blatant disobedience or disrespect was the cause. I used a belt and always made them know that this is not a love tap. In fact,if you are giving a little pukey tap it would be better not to spank at all. No marks,anger,but the idea got firmly laid.

They now are solid Christians,youth ministry,studious,respectful and I am very close to them. I feel sorry for a lot of kids out there whose parents don't love them enough to spank them.

I was spanked,and spanked,and with a bleeding bottom almost got reported to childrens authorities. THAT was wrong and as the oldest child they got over that when the next 4 kids came,thankfully, My last spanking was with a board bent over a desk at age 15. So I've seen the wrong way but I respect Gods teaching and the grace in spanking. Just because it's awkward or personally discomforting does not make Him wrong!

 

[ThisBrotherOfHis]

Some people were molested as children and turned out alright. Does that mean it's okay to molest our children?

No one who is molested turns out "all right." Your comparison is an epic fail.

My mother rarely spanked me. Instead, she'd get angry and pop me across the mouth. I turned out okay, and yet I seriously doubt anyone here would condone her method of discipline as being consistent with the biblical model.

Because it wasn't. The Bible doesn't say, "Spare the 'pop' across the mouth and spoil the child." It says "Spare the rod ... " and the rod is a branch, twig or paddle. Get over it.

 

[katautumn]

No one who is molested turns out "all right."

By alright I mean a functioning, law-abiding member of society. There are people in prison who were spanked as children. Does that mean spanking turns people into criminals? Spanking, in and of itself, doesn't make anyone a better adult. It's just a discipline tool.

Because it wasn't. The Bible doesn't say, "Spare the 'pop' across the mouth and spoil the child." It says "Spare the rod ... " and the rod is a branch, twig or paddle. Get over it.

Aren't you a ray of sunshine today? I'm simply saying that if a person's only defense of spanking is "I was spanked, and I turned out alright" then that is a weak defense. Furthermore, Proverbs is the only mention of using the rod of correction. Do you follow other Proverbs? Such as slitting your own throat to prevent gluttony? I'm not anti-discipline, but if a person wants to use Old Testament standards, then I must ask, would you stone a disobedient child? If not, why? Why pick and choose passages out of the OT and then apply them to parenting?

 

[tturt]

"Rod" means parental authority in Prov 13:24. Strong's dictionary Strong's Greek: 4464. ῥάβδος (rhabdos) -- a staff, rod

We don't follow Deut 21:18-21 but we find that discipline is the responsible thing to do.

There are other Scriptures to help us such as "And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord." Eph 4:6 "A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger." Prov 15:1 (want to get their attention - whisper).

Read some interesting articles about sheep and shepherds. If someone else says the same words as their shepherd, the sheep don't usually don't respond. But when they hear their shepherd's voice, they run to them. (John 10:27). Staff can be used to pull sheep to the shepherd. The rod is used for protection, too.

The Lord's rod and staff - He doesn't beat us with it but uses His authority to guide and protect us.

 

[Blessedj01]

What's appropriate is really held in common sense. We all know a child responds to light "spanking," but that anything beyond that is really an expression of the parent's anger and not really legitimate discipline. Of course there are some people that argue you should never, ever hit a child. I don't agree but I do think people need to be stricter about what they're actually going to do as discipline. I think we should follow the laws of our land and use our heads and our hearts. Above all, don't lose your temper.

 

[Hammster]

A Shepherd Looks At Psalm 23 _"THY ROD AND THY STAFF THEY COMFORT ME"


A little article on the shepherd's use of a rod.

 

[katautumn]

What's appropriate is really held in common sense. We all know a child responds to light "spanking," but that anything beyond that is really an expression of the parent's anger and not really legitimate discipline. Of course there are some people that argue you should never, ever hit a child. I don't agree but I do think people need to be stricter about what they're actually going to do as discipline. I think we should follow the laws of our land and use our heads and our hearts. Above all, don't lose your temper.

This is a very sensible approach, indeed. My issue is that I find it interesting when New Testament believers will look to the wisdom of the Old Testament saints and try and pass it off as a God-given command. God gave commands in the OT to the Israelites. Proverbs are not commands, rather words of wisdom. If that weren't so, why is it the only passage in Proverbs Christians will use as a "commandment" is the one about spanking children and not the others? How many Christian husbands sleep on the corner of their roof top when their wife is having a bad day? How many would slit their own throat to prevent gluttony? How many follow the Proverbs about not removing a boundary stone (which stems from the OT command for the Jews pertaining to land ownership and land inheritance)? How many Christian wives truly live up to the Proverbs 31 standard?

 

[Awaken4Christ]

If the rod is in a hand that is dead in sin, that does not preach the gospel to their child, then what use is the rod? Some use the rod to appease their own pride and honor that has supposedly been challenged or damaged. Some do it because of their lack of character and impatience. These things need to be brought into the discussion as well. Sometimes the rod is not for the child's benefit. I don't think it is simply a black and white issue. I think it is circumstantial.