Southern Baptists Unhappy with the Pope

[Michie]

While I recognize that Baptists do many good things for people (always with the ulterior motive of "saving them") they also, when they are in the majority in your town, as they are in mine, are agents of repression, discrimination, divisiveness, and bad government.

Even their missionary work sometimes horrifies me. A devout young Baptist I know described his mission trip to Haiti.

He said they sang songs about Jesus to school children and helped at praise and worship services. One day out of seven they went to a beach and spent a few hours cleaning up and the rest sunbathing.

And I said to him, "Did you know that 86% of Haitians are Catholic? They are already "saved" in the Baptist sense. On the other hand, their homes and their country's infrastructure have been completely destroyed, and even before the earthquake they were the most poverty-stricken people in the Caribbean. Why did you spend all your time trying to "convert" the already "converted" to your particular flavor of Christianity when their physical needs were crying out to you?"

He was taken aback.

Baptists provide for physical needs before they evangelize. That is Scriptural.

There are many stripes of Christianity that think Catholics need saving. There are many Catholics trying to draw them into the Church as well. But that is no excuse to put words in each other's mouths that never came out of them in the first place. It's no excuse to treat them as fair game to accuse of things they never did or said.

Disagreement does not equal dislike. Those that need bobblehead companions that agree on every point are extremely close minded imo.

The point here is though, there was no link to back up the OP & the man never said he disliked the Pope. Yet everyone is playing pretend as if he did.

And that is wrong.

 

[Tallguy88]

Read John MacArthur if you wanna know what fundamentalist Baptists think of the pope.

 

[Michie]

Read John MacArthur if you wanna know what fundamentalist Baptists think of the pope.

I know what some Baptists think of the Papacy. But there are all sorts of varieties of Baptists. And the point is, the man discussed in the OP never said he disliked the Pope.

 

[Tallguy88]

I know what some Baptists think of the Papacy. But there are all sorts of varieties of Baptists. And the point is, the man discussed in the OP never said he disliked the Pope.

I've never met this OP man. But I have been forced to listen to MacArthur (long car ride with baptist stepdad) and he makes no bones about what he thinks about Catholicism and Sacred Tradition. I believe he even implied, if not outright stated, that JPII is in hell. He also said priests are prone to be pedophiles because of the "unnaturalness" of celibacy.

 

[Tallguy88]

Billy Graham, on the other hand, is a fine man. Led many people to Christ. And in friendly terms with Catholics, to the chagrin of MacArthur, RC Sproul, and others.

 

[Michie]

I've never met this OP man. But I have been forced to listen to MacArthur (long car ride with baptist stepdad) and he makes no bones about what he thinks about Catholicism and Sacred Tradition. I believe he even implied, if not outright stated, that JPII is in hell. He also said priests are prone to be pedophiles because of the "unnaturalness" of celibacy.

Like I said, there are many varieties of Baptists. I've heard Methodists, etc., say the same things. But these people do not represent everyone in their faith tradition. It's still no excuse to put words in another's mouth & say said something he did not without a source to back it up.

 

[Michie]

Billy Graham, on the other hand, is a fine man. Led many people to Christ. And in friendly terms with Catholics, to the chagrin of MacArthur, RC Sproul, and others.

Oh Billy Graham has long been on some heresy lists for some time. But the average layman does not feel that way. It's the radicals that write the books that paint their whole denom with their personal broad brush. Some swallow some don't.

 

[Tallguy88]

Like I said, there are many varieties of Baptists. I've heard Methodists, etc., say the same things. But these people do not represent everyone in their faith tradition. It's still no excuse to put words in another's mouth & say said something he did not without a source to back it up.

I didn't say anything about anyone that isn't true. MacArthur is well known for his views and is representative of a large segment of Baptist belief. I'm surrounded by baptists who don't think Catholics are Christians.

 

[Michie]

I didn't say anything about anyone that isn't true. MacArthur is well known for his views and is representative of a large segment of Baptist belief. I'm surrounded by baptists who don't think Catholics are Christians.

I know you didn't say anything about anyone that isn't true. Baptists are a very varied bunch. But again, I repeat that the man in the OP did not say he disliked the Pope. Those words were put into his mouth. And if you are going to post something at least provide a source.

MacArthur & company are loud in their views but they are by no means the representation of Baptists as a whole. My mother was raised Baptist in the south as well. But they were not the MacArthur variety. It would be like people judging all Catholics by Corapi, etc. You judge by the individual & their understanding because there really is not much unity & authority in the Baptist Church as far as overall beliefs. It's the case with a lot of protestant churches.

 

[Tallguy88]

I know you didn't say anything about anyone that isn't true. Baptists are a very varied bunch. But again, I repeat that the man in the OP did not say he disliked the Pope. Those words were put into his mouth. And if you are going to post something at least provide a source.

MacArthur & company are loud in their views but they are by no means the representation of Baptists as a whole. My mother was raised Baptist in the south as well. But they were not the MacArthur variety. It would be like people judging all Catholics by Corapi, etc. You judge by the individual & their understanding because there really is not much unity & authority in the Baptist Church as far as overall beliefs. It's the case with a lot of protestant churches.

Oh I know most of them aren't quite that hardcore.

 

[Michie]

Oh I know most of them aren't quite that hardcore.

That's for sure.

 

[Tallguy88]

It doesn't bother me that this preacher doesn't like the pope. Whaddya expect?

 

[Michie]

It doesn't bother me that this preacher doesn't like the pope. Whaddya expect?

It would not bother me either but the problem is he did not say he did not like the Pope.

 

[Tallguy88]

It would not bother me either but the problem is he did not say he did not like the Pope.

Lol. I'm jüst joking.

 

[Michie]

Lol. I'm jüst joking.

Whoosh! Over my head!

Too many have done that seriously in this thread.

 

[abysmul]

What a sad sad sad thread.

 

[KatherineS]

Oh I know most of them aren't quite that hardcore.

I think that is true. So we have one Southern Baptist leader who does not like our Pope and thinks he is a "theological wreck." OK, the Southern Baptists tend to be the most hardcore. Not all Baptists are Southern Baptists. We have a congregation here of the Progressive National Baptist Convention who I understand appreciates many of the things Pope Francis has been saying.

 

[Michie]

Obtuse behavior just gets boring after awhile.

The man said the opposite. But if you feel it's your Catholic Christian duty to lie...go for it.

It speaks volumes.

 

[seashale76]

Dr. Moore, I thought, did a good job of expressing his disagreement with the Pope while not making ad hominem attacks against him. While I don't agree with Moore's theology, he's at least thoughtful when presenting his differing points on controversial topics. However- you may have noticed that he certainly didn't make some of the blog commenters happy in refusing to use stronger language. Quite a few people expressed a great deal of anti-Catholic sentiment in the comments- some even inferring their belief that Catholicism is inherently unChristian (something that really is sometimes discussed and promoted in some SBC churches- such as my parent's SBC in the Louisville area which is in the same area where Moore pastored his own church).

The SBC has issues dealing with varying degrees of Calvinism within its ranks currently. Not hyper-Calvinists- but if you go to just about any Southern Baptist Church (including Moore's former Highview Baptist) you can certainly have some type of Calvinist sitting next to a staunch Arminian on a Sunday- and despite what they say- that does cause some issues among the laity. Anywhere there's anyone even remotely fond of Reformed Theology (which the SBC officially doesn't condone but is wishy-washy on because they don't necessarily disagree with watered down versions of Calvinism) you'll find more anti-Catholic sentiments. Of course- my own experience of growing up in primarily Arminian churches were quite anti-Catholic as well- but that was twenty years ago.

 

[Michie]

Dr. Moore, I thought, did a good job of expressing his disagreement with the Pope while not making ad hominem attacks against him. While I don't agree with Moore's theology, he's at least thoughtful when presenting his differing points on controversial topics. However- you may have noticed that he certainly didn't make some of the blog commenters happy in refusing to use stronger language. Quite a few people expressed a great deal of anti-Catholic sentiment in the comments- some even inferring their belief that Catholicism is inherently unChristian (something that really is sometimes discussed and promoted in some SBC churches- such as my parent's SBC in the Louisville area which is in the same area where Moore pastored his own church).

The SBC has issues dealing with varying degrees of Calvinism within its ranks currently. Not hyper-Calvinists- but if you go to just about any Southern Baptist Church (including Moore's former Highview Baptist) you can certainly have some type of Calvinist sitting next to a staunch Arminian on a Sunday- and despite what they say- that does cause some issues among the laity. Anywhere there's anyone even remotely fond of Reformed Theology (which the SBC officially doesn't condone but is wishy-washy on because they don't necessarily disagree with watered down versions of Calvinism) you'll find more anti-Catholic sentiments. Of course- my own experience of growing up in primarily Arminian churches were quite anti-Catholic as well- but that was twenty years ago.

True.

You find Baptists of all stripes making it up as they go along but Moore was respectful in his disagreement & said he did not dislike the Pope & actually agreed with him on a lot of things.

Thank you for your thoughtful post.