Son of God

[Amatire]

Okies, so I read as much of the "can someone be saved and not believe Jesus is God" thread as I could handle all in one go, which was a lot I can tell you, and my brain is now frazzled.

My question is this, is being the "Son of God" exactly the same as being "God" does one automatically connect to the other. 

Please dont yell at me and tell me Im a bad christian, I was raised to believe Jesus is God, and now I am taking my faith into my own hands, and studying what the bible says itself rather than trusting another person's doctrine.  This means I am questioning everything I have learnt, and in some cases have found that what I was told is wrong, that is why I want to be very specific about this.  All I want to know is the truth, nothing more, nothing less. ok?

Please if you are going to answer this, keep your answers short and to the point, I am a bear of very little brain and I dont understand a lot of what I read on this forum, it is too high-brow for me.... If God is Lord of all he is also lord of those of us who are simple... so he should be able to explain the truth to us without giving our brain sumersalt lessons to start off with.. got it? 

Thankyou guys. I look foreward to your answers... in the mean time I am going to pray and read my bible and see if I can come up with some answers for myself!

hugs

Am xx

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

Before anyone says anything to that, I think that the fact that she was afraid someone was oging tot ell her she's a bad Christian is a testimony as to how vicious people can be on these forums. I would request everyone take a moment to think and make sure we're not making this environment hostile on an individual basis. We should assess ourselves. We're not called to instill fear.

And to everyone trying to uphold peace hereabouts, keep up the good work, by all means.

*clears his throat* Right. Anywho...

Hi Amatire. Don't worry about asking questions. How yeh gonna learn iffin yeh don't ask questions?

The Bible says that Jesus was both fully God and fully man, and God made flesh. The best answer I can give to you in regaurds to "is being the Son of God exactly the same as being God", is that Jesus Was. He just was. He was the Son of God (i.e., concieved of the Holy Spirit in a way we can't understand to be born without earthly father). I'm sure there are a number of well near-proffesional apologetics somewheresabout who could explain it better, but if I was you, I'd pray about it if its bugging you. Heavily. Aso for wisdom and God'll give it, and you'll figure it out in a manner that will cause you to be satisfied.

Its rock-awsome that you're taking your faith upon yourself. Keep at it! But don't try to work your way into knowledge. Just relax, trust, question, search. It'll rule, I promise.

If anything I said didn't satisfy (which is entirely possible), fel free to hit the boards with something else and maybe someone more learned will snatch it. Cheers .

 

[SimpleChristian]

amatire...so good to see a brother or sister so openly and honestly searching their faith.  NEVER be afraid to ask questions about beliefs or about what a witness or preacher tells you.  The greatest evangelist the world has ever seen, the apostle Paul, loudly applauded and lifted up the church at Thessolinica(sp?) when he found out that they DID NOT take him at his words, but searched the scriptures to see if he was accurate!  Question on!

Ok...on with Jesus, Son, God thing....one thing to keep in the forefront in your mind is that no one is a 'bad Christian' for not being able to totally comprehend this.  In fact, if anyone ever tells you that they totally comprehend the trinity is so full of it that their eyes must be floating!  We are not exhorted in Scripture to ever be able to comprehend everything about God -- we can't, with our finite minds ever possible comprehend an infinite being.  There is just no way.  There are, however, things in the Christian faith that we are to apprehend.  The trinity is just one of those such things.

Yes...Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time.  He never divested himself of his Godly attributes, but did mask them for his time on earth.  He was the Son of God (the firstborn in the OT sense of the word, having to do with rights and inheritence) but was also God at the same time. 

This is one of those things that we know, but can never prove just as no person could ever 'disprove'....the finite will never totally grasp the infinite.

The reason I think that other thread really sprang up was because there are many people out there preaching may different 'forms' of 'Jesus'.  It is essential that a person does believe in Jesus as he IS, as we find in scripture.  Any other thing is a falsehood wrapped up in a name.

 

[Zico]

"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good"

1 Thessalonians 5:21


"For God is not [the author] of confusion"

1 Corinthians 14:33.


16:43. And We sent not (as Our messengers) before thee other than men whom We inspired - Ask the followers of the Remembrance if ye know not! -

Qur'an 16:34


These examples are to show you that you don't have to believe blindfully and that you have to ask about what you don't know and demand real answers that you can understand, not mysteries, so ask your God ( ALONE ) to show you what is real and what is not.


2:116.And they say: Allah hath taken unto Himself a son. Be He glorified! Nay, but whatsoever is in the heavens and the earth is His. All are subservient unto Him.

Qur'an 2:116


Since you began to see the light, rest assured that you will not die on a belief that he does not accept for you, this is his promise for you that he will never wrong you. I hope this helps Amatire. My he guide you to the path that he accepts.



39:68. And the trumpet is blown, and all who are in the heavens and all who are in the earth swoon away, save him whom Allah willeth. Then it is blown a second time, and behold them standing waiting!

39:69. And the earth shineth with the light of her Lord, and the Book is set up, and the prophets and the witnesses are brought, and it is judged between them with truth, and they are not wronged.

Qur'an 39

 

[LouisBooth]

" so he should be able to explain the truth to us without giving our brain sumersalt lessons to start off with"

Agreed. I do sometimes go nuts wondering how people can't understand something I see clearly. I think its made quite clear in scripture that Christ is God. As for the title Son of God it is a title of authority, not implying a inferior/superior biological relationship. The bible says Christ is God so I will too

 

[SolidGoldScarecrow]

I'm not going to get into this one, but for the sake that I know the Father can read this as surely as he can hear my true intentions, I'll state my conviction that the God of Islam is not the God of my heart, nor the God who saved my soul by giving His Son to be sacrificed for me. I'm done.

 

[Zico]

186. When My servants ask thee concerning Me, I am indeed close (to them): I listen to the prayer of every suppliant when he calleth on Me: Let them also, with a will, Listen to My call, and believe in Me: That they may walk in the right way.

Qur'an 2:186

 

[Amatire]

Thank you guys, for your answers and your support,

I think I have come to the conclusion that it really boils down to faith, We aint big enuff to get everything completely and if God expects us to then he is delusional, because he knows better than we do our frailty and our limits. My God isnt delusional! lol So anyone who says I must get this point to be accepted by him, is talking about a different god, right?

But I also understand the importance of exploring my faith, so.... keep your answers coming, and I will read and digest and probably come up with more questions as we go along.

Thanks zico for your input, I appreciate your desire to help on this matter. I am still reading those links you gave me a few days ago... and I will get back to you on that one soon... However. may I make a request. please could we leave Islam out of this thread for the moment? Perhaps you would like to put up another thread with a similar name to discuss it from your point of view. I will read that one too. but I would like to keep this thread to aid my own understanding from a christian point of view. And I dont want to risk people taking it over and turning it into an argument about Islam... they always seem to do that wherever you post.. I feel sorry for you, it must get you down to be attacked all the time!

Thanks guys

Am xx

Ps, thanks for keeping it simple, any chance of a few bible quotes so I can go and look them up in my spare time?

 

[Amatire]

SimpleChristian,

Yes...Jesus was fully God and fully man at the same time.  He never divested himself of his Godly attributes, but did mask them for his time on earth.  He was the Son of God (the firstborn in the OT sense of the word, having to do with rights and inheritence) but was also God at the same time. 

"Begotten is the old English word that, while in human terms means to have a child, the emphasis even there is that what a human father "begets' shares in the essential nature of that father. It is in this sense that the King James translates the Greek word monogenes as "begotten ; Jesus shares the essential nature of the Father, but rather through some physical act, but a supernatural one."

This was in a link that zico gave me, is this what you meant?

 

[Amatire]

actually zico, I just want to say that the second link you gave me... the book written by a muslim about comparing christianity and Islam is actually proving very helpful for answering this question. I havent got past the part where he is explaining the christian perspective, but it is more understandable and better supported by the bible than most of the christian ones I have (as yet) found!

Never let it be said that a muslim cannot understand our point of view!

Thank you zico

 

[Zico]

Thank you Amatire,,

Let us just say, that when you need to compare any two issues side by side, you have to find your self some good documentation on both, and not to favor one side over the other. Just display the facts and then judge in the light of reason and logic.

Here is also a link to a debate between Jimmy Swagart and the late shaikh Ahmed Deedat ( may God forgive his sins and have mercy on his soul ), it's a nice one ( if you're interested of course ), you'll need RealPlayer. http://www.islam.org/audio/ra622_4.ram

 

[LouisBooth]

you can check carm.org for some stuff too

 

[Thunderchild]

Amatire: No, "Son of God" does not imply that the one is God. The doctrine that the son is God does not derive from that phrase.

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by Thunderchild
Amatire: No, "Son of God" does not imply that the one is God. The doctrine that the son is God does not derive from that phrase.

Thunder, See my post at this link for a reply:http://www.christianforums.com/showthread.php?postid=266033#post266033

 

[LouisBooth]

The title itself implies that this person has the authority of God and is privy to all that God has. I would recommend reading up on jewish rights of first born.

 

[drmmjr]

Originally posted by LouisBooth
The title itself implies that this person has the authority of God and is privy to all that God has. I would recommend reading up on jewish rights of first born.

So if I am reading this right, the son has the authority of the father. The son performs acts with the authority of the father. The son is "legally" considered the agent of the father.

But that does not make the son the father. Either in Jewish rights of first born, or with Jesus and God.

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by drmmjr
So if I am reading this right, the son has the authority of the father. The son performs acts with the authority of the father. The son is "legally" considered the agent of the father.

But that does not make the son the father. Either in Jewish rights of first born, or with Jesus and God.

drmmjr, very well said brother!  amen! 

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by Amatire
Okies, so I read as much of the "can someone be saved and not believe Jesus is God" thread as I could handle all in one go, which was a lot I can tell you, and my brain is now frazzled.

My question is this, is being the "Son of God" exactly the same as being "God" does one automatically connect to the other. 

Please dont yell at me and tell me Im a bad christian, I was raised to believe Jesus is God, and now I am taking my faith into my own hands, and studying what the bible says itself rather than trusting another person's doctrine.  This means I am questioning everything I have learnt, and in some cases have found that what I was told is wrong, that is why I want to be very specific about this.  All I want to know is the truth, nothing more, nothing less. ok?

Please if you are going to answer this, keep your answers short and to the point, I am a bear of very little brain and I dont understand a lot of what I read on this forum, it is too high-brow for me.... If God is Lord of all he is also lord of those of us who are simple... so he should be able to explain the truth to us without giving our brain sumersalt lessons to start off with.. got it? 

Thankyou guys. I look foreward to your answers... in the mean time I am going to pray and read my bible and see if I can come up with some answers for myself!

hugs

Am xx

Read John.  If you arent convinced that Jesus = God AND Jesus = Son, I don't know what to tell you.  Its clear as day to many of us.

 

[franklin]

Originally posted by s0uljah
   If you arent convinced that Jesus = God AND Jesus = Son, I don't know what to tell you.  Its clear as day to many of us.

sorry to cut in here Souj, but, If the scripture doesnt convince you of the truth, then we don't know what to tell you:  1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 4:15, "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." These are quoted to prove "we are warned not to belittle Christ." Jesus Christ rendered perfect obedience, never sinned, overcame every weakness and temptation. Therefore God hath exalted him that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow (Philippians 2:9-10). 

 

[Chris†opher Paul]

Originally posted by franklin


sorry to cut in here Souj, but, If the scripture doesnt convince you of the truth, then we don't know what to tell you:  1 John 2:22, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son." 1 John 4:15, "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God." These are quoted to prove "we are warned not to belittle Christ." Jesus Christ rendered perfect obedience, never sinned, overcame every weakness and temptation. Therefore God hath exalted him that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow (Philippians 2:9-10). 

Yes, and you belittle Him by claiming He isn't God.