Sometimes it is good to be a heretic

[Crazy Liz]

Okay wait. I do not consider Orthodox to be outside of the body of Christ. The same for Roman Catholics. These two do not have that same opinion of us. There is a huge difference here.

The potentiality is for us to recognize each other as brothers and sisters and find a way to fellowship together without condemning each other for using or not using icons, etc.

 

[SumTinWong]

None. You aren't declaring anyone there as heretic so there is nobody you should instead call "potentially _________".

The "potentially _________" phrase is only useful for those who wish to call someone else heretic to help keep the other person in a right perspective.

Okay, that is what I thought as well. It still sems to me though GD that if someone sees someone in what they percieve as heresy, pretending they are potentially a (insert denomination here) is not an answer. If you say this person is a potential Christian, then I am for this, and I practice this myself.

 

[Crazy Liz]

These people are saying hey "they are not heretics, they could potentially be an Orthodox", instead of "hey they are my Christian brothers and sisters". There is a world of difference. I choose the latter.

There are a lot of Orthodox Christians who feel towards us as you feel towards them. There are others who have the kinds of attitudes you deplore. I think OUSA's statement is meant to be a subtle nudge in your direction toward his more intolerant compatriots.

 

[SumTinWong]

The potentiality is for us to recognize each other as brothers and sisters and find a way to fellowship together without condemning each other for using or not using icons, etc.

You don't know how bad I wish that would happen Liz. I do not condemn the Orthodox for their practices, rituals, and beliefs. I do not condemn them at all.I also share a fondness for alot of things they stand for to a certain point. Past that point I rely on the belief that God knows where they are at with Him.

 

[SumTinWong]

There are a lot of Orthodox Christians who feel towards us as you feel towards them. There are others who have the kinds of attitudes you deplore.

I agree

I think OUSA's statement is meant to be a subtle nudge in your direction toward his more intolerant compatriots.

I would hope that to be the case, and I am on friendly terms with OUSA, so it is possible that is what was meant.

 

[Gold Dragon]

Okay, that is what I thought as well. It still sems to me though GD that if someone sees someone in what they percieve as heresy, pretending they are potentially a (insert denomination here) is not an answer. If you say this person is a potential Christian, then I am for this, and I practice this myself.

Agreed. Whether the label is a denomination, fundamentalist, dispensationalist, evangelical, orthodox Christian, whatever we consider "us", it applies.

 

[Gold Dragon]

I think OUSA's statement is meant to be a subtle nudge in your direction toward his more intolerant compatriots.

This is what I thought he meant as well.

 

[2Timothy2]

Context, Timothy. I was replying to a specific post by observing that those who were insulted by it might not have been so if they had heard the saying, rather than reading it, because they interpreted it differently depending on whether or not "orthodox" was spelled with a capital "O."

If you want me to be specific about specific divisions, I am very sad that we are divided from our Orthodox (capital "O") brothers and sisters.

What is important about the "potentially orthodox" saying is the hope it implies. "Heretic" writes a person off forever. But people's theology is not fixed forever. People change. I do not want to anathematize anybody, but hope and pray that they will become more enlightened, and do my very best, gently and without name-calling, to help them in this process.



I am far less pessimistic than you. Perhaps that has something to do with not being a dispensationalist, but I certainly don't think dispensationalism is something important enough to cause us to stop talking and fellowshipping with each other. If we look at Christianity's second millennium, it looks like divisions will always be increasing, but I'm not so sure. There are some indications that this trend is reversing, for various reasons. The church has always been more united under persecution, except for those periods when it was Christians doing the persecuting.

We have recent examples of a few groups like the Worldwide Church of God becoming orthodox (with a small "o") and trinitarian in their theology. Whether cases like the WWCoG are unusual or firstfruits of a new trend would require an ability to predict the future beyond your ability or mine. Yet I prefer to hope. I think scriptures support this preference.

We all change - both individuals and groups. I think God is gracious and loving and not willing that any should perish. Calling someone a heretic brands them as someone who will never change. I won't do that if I can help it, and pray God help me when I think I can't.

Point taken on the context issue, my appologies.

However, I still have to disagree with some of what you said here. First, I am most definately not a dispy, no offense to those who are.

Second, and more importantly, it may be pessimistic, but Scripture tells us divisions will increase.
[bible]2 Timothy 4:3-4[/bible]

This is why verses 1 and 2 are so important here. Also, we are called to place the lable of heretic on those who stray from sound doctrine.

[bible]Titus 3:10-11[/bible]

We must not let feelings dictate our understanding of Scripture. It isn't pleasant to point out someone in heresy, those who do take pleasure in it are sinning. But it is a necessary thing. Sound doctrine is essential, period. Love is sound doctrine, and admonishing one in heretical beliefs is love, avoiding this is most definately not love, at least not love for them or God.

I am unfamiliar with EO doctrines, for the most part. I'm a bit more familiar with RC doctrine. So, I'm not condemning any of them personally. But there are definately problems. We can't back away from these, or others, for the sake of unity, at the expense of sound doctrine. This is the path Israel took, and I hope we would learn from their mistakes. As far as the WWCoG, do you really think they changed because their heretical beliefs were tolerated? They heard the admonishments, and after a time, examined their beliefs in light of Scripture, which is the goal of such admonishment.