Something About Mary

[Stryder06]

Weekday Mass is different from Sunday Mass. Sunday may not be a holy day for you, but for Christians, we worship on the day of the Resurrection.

A day being holy is established by God, not you or I. So you worshipping on it doesn't make it holy.

As far as your "but for us Christians" remark. I'll let that one go. Last time someone made a similar remark and I called them out on it, I was accused of bearing false witness. I wouldn't want that to happen again.

 

[Stryder06]

Which is exactly what you are doing when you judge someone for kneeling in prayer before a statue.

Not at all. The commandment says to not bow down before graven images.

 

[sunlover1]

This is my FAVORITE worship song. Like, of all time. And today is a great day to pray!

It's a beautiful song isn't it!

Time for me to get some SONshine while I"m getting
some SUNshine lol..
I like to sit in the sun with my earbuds... ahhhhhhhh


Go sharpen up my sword!

 

[Stryder06]

Based on what?

The second commandment.

 

[Stryder06]

Hanging out with prostitutes and tax collectors certainly has the appearance of evil ...

Culturally yes. If it were late at night and Jesus was on the corner with a prostitute, yes. That's not what it was though. He fellowshiped with them to minister to them.

 

[Stryder06]

How does one "prove all things" and "hold fast to the good" while one is avoiding looking evil? It's not possible. It makes no sense in context.

It's quite possible. Adultrey is a sin. So for instance, I should't visit a single lady as a married man, and walk out of her house around 3 AM. Not a good look, even if we're having an all night bible study.

But if you truly feel that this is the proper interpretation, then you should by no means ignore such a command. You might want to throw out your computer. If your neighbor glanced into your window, he might think you are using porn, since computers are so often used for porn. Better to get rid of the computer than to risk looking like you are doing evil.

Bad logic. I could just as well say "You ought not go outside because you're neighbor might assume you're about to go sell drugs".

Again, someone calling your good evil is another subject altogether. However, if there is a command that expressly states that bowing down in front of a grave image is a sin, you can't say it's ok because you're not "worshiping" you're "venerating".

 

[Thekla]

Yeah it also says...

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

One they of the world who do such things such as do sacrifice unto gods and dumb idols and then I suppose ones brother who might take more of an offense in that case which (to them) might ressemble what the world does (or at least did much moreso back then) with which they might question. Like they can be right on the line, a line creating a difference (or a division) one in the conscience (in which he might feel damned partaking in). And so, if he is considered weaker in conscience (if that is how he is considered) is unable to do those things (which are not relevant anyway). For instance in the case of cement kissing and kneeling before cement (etc etc) to hold those acts of greater importance then the brothers who stumble at it would show which is of greater imporatnce (in truth). The cement over the brother, or at least it can be read that way.

God above all, for sure !

Peter denying to eat with the gentile brothers was likely a solace to those brothers that would be scandalized by it ...

so in each instance we must look to Christ and the HolySpirit.

In Churches my dad served, there was always someone scandalized by something ...

 

[Fireinfolding]

Or that I am lying down in bed with this mans wife because I am tired not fornicating. lol

 

[Thekla]

Not at all. The commandment says to not bow down before graven images.

In the LXX, it says idols.

But unless we worship only alone and in a bare room, if we bow at all we look to be bowing to something (even, in a bare room, to a wall or corner or door ...)

 

[Thekla]

Culturally yes. If it were late at night and Jesus was on the corner with a prostitute, yes. That's not what it was though. He fellowshiped with them to minister to them.

Yet it still appeared evil to some; you identify His intent.

And that, as before, is what the righteous judgement is - not by appearances, but the heart/intent.

 

[Stryder06]

Yet it still appeared evil to some; you identify His intent.

And that, as before, is what the righteous judgement is - not by appearances, but the heart/intent.

Who complained about Jesus eating with tax collectors, and prostitutes? Was it not the very men who were trying to kill Him?

Their opinion didn't count. Not sure how many different ways one can say that.

 

[Stryder06]

In the LXX, it says idols.

Idols are graven images. Tis an image of something carved out of something else.

But unless we worship only alone and in a bare room, if we bow at all we look to be bowing to something (even, in a bare room, to a wall or corner or door ...)

Not following you here.

 

[Fireinfolding]

God above all, for sure !

Peter denying to eat with the gentile brothers was likely a solace to those brothers that would be scandalized by it ...

so in each instance we must look to Christ and the HolySpirit.

In Churches my dad served, there was always someone scandalized by something ...

Definately, shows the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To whom Paul also preached in Acts 17:29 saying that we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

And in Christ dwelled the fulness of the Godhead bodily, but we could say Christ is also likened unto a stone (even one the builders rejected) but is speaking of that which is graven by art and mans device. It speaks of inquiring how the nations worship their gods (to whom they were sent) and that they were not to worship the Lord their God in the same way but in Spirit and in truth. Though we know by similitude showing the brasen serpent Moses made (even by the commandment of God himself) when they burned incense to it (which healed them) being a figure of the true Hezekiah destroyed it and the Lord said he did what was right in his eyes. Hezekiah is the one who called it Nehushtan (which simply means a thing of brass) So I can see how it sends mixed signals.

I always wondered how Hezekiah got away with that myself, because you can hear it now... Dont you know, God commanded this thing to be made? That this was made special by the hands of Moses by the commandment of God!? We know its special because witnesses attest to the fact that people were all healed by the power of God in this thing? What on earth have you done (yadda yadda yadda). Took brass ones to do that actually (at least Im thinking) lol

 

[Thekla]

Who complained about Jesus eating with tax collectors, and prostitutes? Was it not the very men who were trying to kill Him?

Their opinion didn't count. Not sure how many different ways one can say that.

I understand what you're getting at.

Nor do I agree with their opinion.

But if we are to flee the appearance of evil, and if the judgement is based on a secular norm (as we live in a culture that does not cultivate a sense of the sacred, nor physical demonstration, nor respect for others as created in the image of God), then avoiding the appearance of evil becomes another matter.

Are you really seeing the heart in your judgement of others, or are you looking at appearances ?

There are many who are weaker who will be tempted by Satan to see evil where there is not - should these be the norming criteria ?

 

[Fireinfolding]

Thats another question I have now that I think about it, it doesnt say they were worshipping the brasen serpent just censing it, or burning incense to it.

So that particular action also was not considered a good thing either? I mean because it doesnt say do not cense an image, but not to bow before one. And obviously God commanded this thing to be made of Moses and this action toward what God (himself) instructed to be made would be deemed holy (or iconic) in some sense.

Does it say not to burn incense to such things?

 

[Thekla]

Idols are graven images. Tis an image of something carved out of something else.

Idols are god-as-material.
Anything can be an idol - the biggest idol for many is "me".
And that idol is neither physically bowed to, nor graven ...

Not following you here.

If we bow or kneel in worship, we will always look to be bowing toward something material as we live in a world surrounded by matter.

If someone wants to see idolatry when someone bows -- they'll see it.

 

[seeingeyes]

It's quite possible. Adultrey is a sin. So for instance, I should't visit a single lady as a married man, and walk out of her house around 3 AM. Not a good look, even if we're having an all night bible study.



Bad logic. I could just as well say "You ought not go outside because you're neighbor might assume you're about to go sell drugs".

Honestly, I'm not seeing the difference. In both cases, one is doing 'good' that is viewed as evil. You just don't want to take that as far as it can go, lest it actually inconvenience you.

Again, someone calling your good evil is another subject altogether.
However, if there is a command that expressly states that bowing down in front of a grave image is a sin, you can't say it's ok because you're not "worshiping" you're "venerating".

Then maybe you should post that verse instead of telling Catholics what essentially boils down to as "You're sinning because it looks like you're sinning to me." :/

 

[Thekla]

Definately, shows the Holy Ghost was poured out on the Gentiles

Acts 10:45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

To whom Paul also preached in Acts 17:29 saying that we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.

Yet also the Scriptures describe Christ as a rock, mountain, and Revelation describes the Kingdom as gold, and others as pearls and precious stones; all of these are 'pointers' (to stability, truth, value), not the "things in themselves" have value.

And in Christ dwelled the fulness of the Godhead bodily, but we could say Christ is also likened unto a stone (even one the builders rejected) but is speaking of that which is graven by art and mans device. It speaks of inquiring how the nations worship their gods (to whom they were sent) and that they were not to worship the Lord their God in the same way but in Spirit and in truth. Though we know by similitude showing the brasen serpent Moses made (even by the commandment of God himself) when they burned incense to it (which healed them) being a figure of the true Hezekiah destroyed it and the Lord said he did what was right in his eyes. Hezekiah is the one who called it Nehushtan (which simply means a thing of brass) So I can see how it sends mixed signals.

Whoops - I spoke too soon (see above)

what is used by God, created by God, commanded by God, can also be misused - that's for sure. Happens repeatedly. Heart counts

I always wondered how Hezekiah got away with that myself, because you can hear it now... Dont you know, God commanded this thing to be made? That this was made special by the hands of Moses by the commandment of God!? We know its special because witnesses attest to the fact that people were all healed by the power of God in this thing? What on earth have you done (yadda yadda yadda). Took brass ones to do that actually (at least Im thinking) lol

It certainly prefigured the cross ...

right-use (stewardship) is a matter of vigilance/watchfulness but first to be following Christ.

 

[Fireinfolding]

Wow... I learned something new, something simple really, like "a duh", ever do that? I do, over the smallest details. Cause I posted earlier on Daniel opening his window and prayed toward Jerusalem, and always thought, why on earth did he do that? but then it just dawned on me as I just read Solomon saying of how they would pray "toward this place" (Jerusalem) In 1Kings 8:35 When heaven is shut up, and there is no rain, because they have sinned against thee; if they pray toward this place, and confess thy name, and turn from their sin, when thou afflictest them: Thus....Daniel 6:10 Now when Daniel knew that the writing was signed, he went into his house; and his windows being open in his chamber toward Jerusalem, he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God, as he did aforetime.

Pretty cool, its the little things that make my day when I find a detail I overlooked or just couldnt catch as to why.

Everyone else probrobly already knows this but me

 

[Fireinfolding]

Yet also the Scriptures describe Christ as a rock, mountain, and Revelation describes the Kingdom as gold, and others as pearls and precious stones; all of these are 'pointers' (to stability, truth, value), not the "things in themselves" have value.



Whoops - I spoke too soon (see above)

what is used by God, created by God, commanded by God, can also be misused - that's for sure. Happens repeatedly. Heart counts


It certainly prefigured the cross ...

right-use (stewardship) is a matter of vigilance/watchfulness but first to be following Christ.

I tried to cover the basis there, can somewhat anticipate the whoopsi's by now sis lol