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Then in YOUR opinion, how much 'veneration' is considered worship?
I've been accused of worshiping scripture MANY times in GT.
[/indent][/indent][/indent][/indent]I know you didnt ask...but my opinion is thus,
NO ONE KNOWS BUT YOU AND THE LORD!!!!
That is why you develop a conscience...The Church FORBIDS Idolatry, it is sin...
How do you know when you are committing any other sin?
Here is my answer:
He only needed one chance...her conception.
If you are asking me to do some kind of long division to give you a scientific answer...you sir, are barking up the wrong tree...
EDIT:
Since we are clearing up the questions asked...here was mine:
So you believe that Mary was without sin for what period of time? The day before until the day after she gave birth to the Lord? The day of? If you believe that she was sinless at the annunciation...why would you try to argue against the Immaculate Conception?
Would you mind me asking at what point the reverence to Mary could be considered idolatry? Like what would one have to do for you to know that they were actually worshiping her? How could you, or your church tell?
What's the difference between the veneration given to Mary, and the saints for that matter, and the worship given to God. What distinguishes it? Is it simply the word? Or is there an act that would allow you to know that X person has crossed the line and is now committing idolatry?
No, I didn't ask you.[/indent][/indent][/indent][/indent]I know you didnt ask...but my opinion is thus,
NO ONE KNOWS BUT YOU AND THE LORD!!!!
That is why you develop a conscience...The Church FORBIDS Idolatry, it is sin...
How do you know when you are committing any other sin?
It's too much when it takes your focus off Christ. That would be making her our god. The devotion is designed to lift up Christ, to get us in the attitude of prayer. Giving honor to the one who bore Christ our salvation seems perfect. I give honor to all mothers as life is conceived in them. In Mary, that life conceived is everlasting.Then in YOUR opinion, how much 'veneration' is considered worship?
I've been accused of worshiping scripture MANY times in GT.
Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25 They exchanged the truth about God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorwho is forever praised. Amen.
However, you seem unable to answer it, so I'll answer it for you. Even if the angel meant that Mary was then sinless--and there is absolutely no reason to think that's what he meant--God could have cleansed her of sin at any time over a span of years. The most likely time, if that happened, is at the annunciation itself. To invent some "Immaculate Conception" theory afterwards, thinking that it honors Mary, is wrong to do, unwarranted, and pure speculation.
And so if we see another person involved in it what then?
*that was to you DC
At what point would anything become idolatry? When do we begin to worship money, people, jobs, athletes...ect? The answer is the same here.
Same thing applies.Sorry for yelling...
What does it look like? How do you know?
Of course anything is possible...it's possible I am the easter bunny, just not likely...I apply the same logic to your answer.
I guess the answer to that question goes back to authority...who has the authority to tell me what's what?
At what point would anything become idolatry? When do we begin to worship money, people, jobs, athletes...ect? The answer is the same here...Again, it goes back to the development of one's conscience to know whether they are placing something equal to or above God...the Church may not be able to tell...
That's the thing though, the church should be able to tell. And we're not talking about money, cars, jobs, athletes, etc. Although I don't think those things get half the attention one may give to Mary or a Saint, and and that by most is considered to be idolatry.
From your response it would seem like you believe the only form of idolatry there that exist, exists in ones mind.
Interesting fact, if someone from Israel bowed down to a statue, that was considered idolatry. What's changed since that time? Oh that's right, the culture
Good question!! The Church has theological teachings for eveything...Latria, Hyperdulia and Dulia sum it all up...read this:
Honor - Latria, Hyperdulia, Dulia & Simple Honor
Heretics are wont to accuse us of idolatry when we pray before a holy picture or a statue of a Saint or angel. They are confused over the method of our honor.
I'm butting in but I have to ask: Are you saying your conscience can tell the heart of another? I think I must have read you wrong.Same thing applies.
Same way you said I know if I'm 'venerating'
someone too much.
My conscience.
No problem,
I didn't really cover my ears.
And I am old btw
So what to do if I see someone worshiping or overly venerating
anything or anyone?
Good question!! The Church has theological teachings for eveything...Latria, Hyperdulia and Dulia sum it all up...read this:
Honor - Latria, Hyperdulia, Dulia & Simple Honor
It's fair IMO to say we are talking about two different kinds of Idolatry. There is the literal idolatry of worshipping something other than God--which may be the case with saint worship. And then there is the other kind of "idolatry" DC tried to switch to in his answer by which we mean valuing something Earthly so much that you make it, de facto, a kind of idol.
Good to know what your church thinks about us
I'm butting in but I have to ask: Are you saying your conscience can tell the heart of another? I think I must have read you wrong.
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