Some Veterans defend Colin...

[ThatRobGuy]

SOLDIERS SPEAK OUT ON KAEPERNICK: His protest 'makes him more American than anyone'

Veterans have continued to voice their support and opposition to the manner in which Kaepernick protested systemic racism and police brutality.

"I can tell you, speaking for three generations of my family, it is PRECISELY for men like Kaepernick, and his right to peacefully protest injustice, that we were willing to serve," said Michael Sands, a Green Beret who is the son of a World War II veteran and father of an Army officer who served in Afghanistan. "Want to respect the American flag? Then respect the ideals for which it stands. Bullying language and calling peaceful protesters 'sons of *******' who should be fired aren't among them."

Figured I'd post the viewpoint of some veterans that aren't opposed to what the NFL players are doing.

 

[mark kennedy]

I served and I fully support them, Trump jumped on the wrong horse here.

 

[Hank77]

I thought this Marine's statement to be something we should think about.

"We should stand during the anthem, or the pledge, or salute and honor the flag when we can do so with genuine pride and respect. When we see our nation faltering, we must put aside mindless patriotism and work together to right what is wrong or unjust."


"Only then will the symbols have meaning. Thank-you, Colin Kaepernick, for honoring the Constitution with a meaningful and peaceful protest."


"It takes hard work for people to be able to understand that the flag is only thread, cloth, and dye. Its value is determined by our ability to demonstrate that the country it symbolizes is truly just, fair, and free."

 

[Audacious]

My view is that people are switching the topic to veterans and patriotism because they don't want to talk about the real problem -- the one that Kaepernick is protesting.

If the flag represents our country, and our country is failing in some very immoral and unacceptable ways, I don't think it's wrong to refuse to stand for it.

 

[rambot]

I thought this Marine's statement to be something we should think about.

"We should stand during the anthem, or the pledge, or salute and honor the flag when we can do so with genuine pride and respect. When we see our nation faltering, we must put aside mindless patriotism and work together to right what is wrong or unjust."


"Only then will the symbols have meaning. Thank-you, Colin Kaepernick, for honoring the Constitution with a meaningful and peaceful protest."


"It takes hard work for people to be able to understand that the flag is only thread, cloth, and dye. Its value is determined by our ability to demonstrate that the country it symbolizes is truly just, fair, and free."

It's beautiful.
And yet a point I think a bit too often lost.
Call me hyperbolic but I honestly feel that sometimes your flag is treated like an idol down there.

It's weird to me

 

[iluvatar5150]

It's beautiful.
And yet a point I think a bit too often lost.
Call me hyperbolic but I honestly feel that sometimes your flag is treated like an idol down there.

It's weird to me

It absolutely is treated like an idol.

 

[jax5434]

I am also a veteran who supports the players right to protest.
God Bless
Jax

 

[Hank77]

It's beautiful.
And yet a point I think a bit too often lost.
Call me hyperbolic but I honestly feel that sometimes your flag is treated like an idol down there.

It's weird to me

It certainly seems that way lately.

 

[rambot]

To be clear (and in regards to the quote), it can be noted that there are people even on these forums who simply do not think the nation is "faltering" (as per the quote).

The question is: How do you help those people understand why black people are upset?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It's beautiful.
And yet a point I think a bit too often lost.
Call me hyperbolic but I honestly feel that sometimes your flag is treated like an idol down there.

It's weird to me

Not really...it's selectively used as an idol when convenient for certain people to bash the other side.

They have no problem with the flag being used on Budweiser cans (that they'll crumple and toss out when they're done), they have no problem with southern chicks wearing American Flag thongs for a "patriotic" bikini photo shoot. In fact, for all of the "we're going to cry about flag desecration" people, they don't seem to be put off by the fact that there's literally millions of violations of the "flag code" (Title 4 of the US code that states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes, clothing, or commercialization). They only seem to become sticklers for the rules when their political opponents do it for protesting purposes and they can't provide a rebuttal of substance.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

The question is: How do you help those people understand why black people are upset?

In my experience, you can't.

If you can literally show them the video of the guy (who was the caretaker for other guy with Autism), literally laying on his back with his hands in the air, not a weapon in sight, and they still try to defend the police shooting him...then they're a lost cause and it's going to take them actually experiencing police abuse to open their eyes to it.

 

[Phil 1:21]

The rights of people to peacefully protest is fundamental to our republic. I support that right regardless of my opinions as to the validity of their cause. For our president to call for retribution against people exercising their constitutional rights is reprehensible...just as it was reprehensible when our former president attempted to subverted the right to due process by white police officers involved in shootings.

 

[Hank77]

just as it was reprehensible when our former president attempted to subverted the right to due process by white police officers involved in shootings.

??

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

It's beautiful.
And yet a point I think a bit too often lost.
Call me hyperbolic but I honestly feel that sometimes your flag is treated like an idol down there.

It's weird to me

Yes. I see the biggest flag idol worshipers are the Conservative Christian side. They should know better.

 

[mark kennedy]

You know before he shot his mouth off it was nine players, noticed but largely overlooked. Now some of the owners and dozens of players. This guy is either dense or his base enjoys pointless attention getting device.

 

[RDKirk]

Not really...it's selectively used as an idol when convenient for certain people to bash the other side.

They have no problem with the flag being used on Budweiser cans (that they'll crumple and toss out when they're done), they have no problem with southern chicks wearing American Flag thongs for a "patriotic" bikini photo shoot. In fact, for all of the "we're going to cry about flag desecration" people, they don't seem to be put off by the fact that there's literally millions of violations of the "flag code" (Title 4 of the US code that states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes, clothing, or commercialization). They only seem to become sticklers for the rules when their political opponents do it for protesting purposes and they can't provide a rebuttal of substance.

And if a military retiree like myself points out that they're violating the Flag Code, they get self-righteous and claim that "freedom" means they can do whatever they want with the flag. The way thee so-called patriots treat the flag bothers me a heck of a lot more than someone taking a knew during the national anthem. Their hypocrisy is disgusting.

As a military brat from a military family stretching back a century, and career military myself, I've been standing up for the national anthem in base movie theaters all my life. When I'm on base at 16:00hrs and retreat begins, I stop whatever I'm doing, face the flagpole (or the direction of the music), stand at attention and salute. I still do it. Do any of these so-called patriots do that? Their hypocrisy is disgusting.

That's what happens to Robin Williams here, and he reacts admirably.

I still do it.

Yet, I suspect that not a single black military vet in the country has a gripe about anyone else feeling a need to take a knee in protest. We're not blind and we're not hypocrites.

 

[rambot]

In my experience, you can't.

If you can literally show them the video of the guy (who was the caretaker for other guy with Autism), literally laying on his back with his hands in the air, not a weapon in sight, and they still try to defend the police shooting him...then they're a lost cause and it's going to take them actually experiencing police abuse to open their eyes to it.

ug.... man do I remember the head against wall conversations I had with people on here.
It's so bad I sometimes think there are different species of human that are aligned with how we see and analyze the world.

 

[rambot]

Come to think of it:

Is there ANY soldier alive that, after some would answer "I fought for the flag" BEFORE they said, I fought for freedom/freedoms/my parents/my family/my country/my community"?

If a soldier is going to fight for a piece of cloth, I'm going to posit they are fighting for some very very messed up reasons.

 

[RDKirk]

Come to think of it:

Is there ANY soldier alive that, after some would answer "I fought for the flag" BEFORE they said, I fought for freedom/freedoms/my parents/my family/my country/my community"?

If a soldier is going to fight for a piece of cloth, I'm going to posit they are fighting for some very very messed up reasons.

A soldier goes in with an oath to defend the Constitution. Period. Nothing and nobody else.

While in combat, the soldier is fighting for his immediate comrades.

Let's say there was a US flag flying for in a combat zone (umm, okay, say, combat is raging around the US embassy) and the flagpole is shot down in heavy fire. Is any US soldier going to leap out to rescue it?

Nope. Might have happened back in the Civil War, but not these days.

 

[lasthero]

You know before he shot his mouth off it was nine players, noticed but largely overlooked. Now some of the owners and dozens of players. This guy is either dense or his base enjoys pointless attention getting device.

It's just a distraction.

I honestly doubt Trump really cares about it nearly as much as he says, but he knew his supporters do, so it's an issue he can center on to get them riled up. At the end of the day, this is probably the LEAST important issue going on in America right now - North Korea, the healthcare debate, tax reform, the mess in Puerto Rico, these are all major topics that affect millions of lives. But he has us talking about something that will, one way or another, affect literally nothing of real importance. I strongly suspect that was the intent.