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Some Surprising Facts About Evolution

Tomk80

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[quote=Tomk80;38492748]Yes, they do have differing phenotypes. But actually look at how similar they are. Indeed, environmental and developmental interactions will cause the phyisical characteristics to drift a small way apart. But do you truly believe that, if we had 100% the same DNA as chimps, we would look human? Honestly, there are limits to how much enviironmental and developmental factors can do. Monozygotic twins are a good example of this.


Unfortunately, that is not how the conclusions are arrived at. Basically, you are wrong. Again. Does that not worry you?

It was also not an answer to my question. So again, did you understand what I wrote?
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This is not an assumption. It is a conclusion deriving from the evidence. Some of this evidence was already noted by creationists, like Carolus Linneaus. So no, you are wrong again. A common ancestor is not an assumption of 'evolutionists', it is a conclusion from the evidence, some of which has already been discussed on this thread.

But the classification is not arbitrary. Try it. I really mean it. Come up with a different grouping that is equally valid. Linneaus couldn't and he was a creationist. He devised the whole system of classification that is used to support the conclusion of common ancestry! It is not an 'evolutionary invention'. You guys came up with it yourself!
I choose this:
The old human to human 99.9-99.5% similarity has been updated to the new similarity of just 99 percent figure. Which is close to what scientists have often estimated for the similarity between humans and chimps. But the human-chimp similarity drops to more like 95 percent when the more recently discovered kinds of DNA variation are considered.(Like try unknown functions of Junk DNA) Again we need to move the figures around to fit the belief system. More peer review to come I’m sure.

No, we don't "move the figures around to fit the belief system". If you actually read the peer-reviewed literature you would have known that geneticists had already said that the human-chimp difference would be higher. This is because the former figure of 98% difference was only based on base-to-base comparison. In other words, it was based on comparing the stretches of DNA that were of similar length. The 95% figure is not due to unknown functions of junk DNA, that has nothing to do with the figure. The 95% figure is arrived at by also looking at insertions and deletions in the genome, something that was hard to do first. The figure of base-to-base comparisons is still the same as it was before, 98%. I don't know much of the human-to-human differences and what those are based on, but my suspicion is that the story is similar to the chimpanzee-to-human comparison, namely the inclusion of indel mutations in the analysis.

Now, I kinow creationist organisations never explain the exact differences between the different figures and why they arrive at the conclusions they arrive at. Otherwise you wouldn't make the basic errors you make above. Why is that, do you think? Why don't they fully explain the issue, instead of just showing half of it?

Also, you now fully ignore the point where you started. If chimps would have 100% the same DNA as humans they would be humans. They would look as similar to us as monozygotic twins to each other, do you deny this? They would be able to procreate with us.

That is, the differences are obviously more than one or two percent between a chimp and a human. The association in the genome is therefore an erroneous indication of similarity because it defies the obvious. Which do we believe; the hidden complication and largely unknown operation of the genome or the obvious evidence that is clearly demonstrated and observed and proved factual?
Unfortunately, you are again wrong. The conclusion of common ancestry has never been decided on the basis of just the percentage difference. The conclusion is based on the pattern that is seen when you set out the similarities and differences in the genetic sequence between different species. This is an important distinction that you need to understand. The absolute figure doesn't tell us much, the pattern we get when comparing the different sequences does.

The other obvious reason why similarity of genome is not proof of common descent is the basic similarity of the two creatures. They are both animals with lungs, hearts, nervous systems, two hands and two legs etc. So why wouldn’t there be quite a bit of similarity in the genome as well, especially if they were the products of a common designer?
Again, it is not the similarity in itself. It is the pattern that we get when we analyze what the similarities and differences are exactly. The difference, as they say, is in the details.
The existence of these genetic similarities is very normal, even inevitable. That is because the human body is made of the same materials, the same elements, as those of other living things.
Man breathes the same air, eats the same food, and lives in the same climate as animals.
This statement in itself is false. We do not eat the same food, we do not live in the same climate. But again, this is irrelevant. Because for what you say to be true the pattern we see when analyzing the similarities and differences would not have to fall in a nested hierarchy of groups within groups. That they do leads us to the conclusion of common ancestry.

All life on Earth is "carbon-based"; in other words, it is constructed from organic molecules (carbon compounds). Therefore, a human being naturally has proteins and genetic codes that are similar to those of other living things.
Yes, but that is not the point. And I'm stating this multiple times, because it is important. If what you say would be the case, there would still be no specific reason for the simiraties to form a nested hierarchy. You keep glossing over this in this post, which means you either do not understand what a nested hierarchy is or what it's signficance is. Which of the two is it? Or is it both?

This, however, does not mean that man and other organisms share a common origin or that man evolved from other creatures.
You are under the impression that geneticists have looked at the similarities, said "golly, that looks pretty similar" and called it a day. This is not the case. If the similarities would have been much closer but would not have fallen in a nested hierarchy, the conclusion of common ancestry would not have been supported by the evidence. Again, it is not the amount of similarity in itself that leads to the conclusion. It is the pattern that we see when categorizing the similarities and differences. This is important and you haven't addressed that at all in this post.
 
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Inan3

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To one and all,

As you know I have spent the earlier part of my day, ridiculing and patronizing many posts and postees. My point was to show that it has no point. It is sheer foolishness. Nothing can be accomplished by demeaning the views and personage of another individual. Anyone can do it but where does it get you. I have not won anything. You have not won anything. It is simply hypocritical to suggest to others that they cannot do it to you but it's okay to do it to them. How ridiculous is that? I believe this is the one of the great divides between one side or the other. There is no way either is going to listen to the other if they are offensive and condescending.

I also, think that we have left the point of these threads and I will take the blame for that because I have interjected God into it. I have thought several times that I should leave and get into other threads that fit me more, but it seemed I always had some post to answer. I think it's time to get off this merry-go-round because it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.

I will say, it has been interesting and I believe I have broadened and strengthened myself and I have learned alot. I'm going to probably start a new thread, if there isn't one already, on the Reality of God. You are all invited if you would like to search it out.

I do hope you all consider what I said about putting other people down. It really doesn't accomplish a thing.

Of course, I'll probably "lurk" around every now and then and see what is going on but until then. Happy trails to you.:tutu:
 
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Skaloop

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As you know I have spent the earlier part of my day, ridiculing and patronizing many posts and postees. My point was to show that it has no point. It is sheer foolishness. Nothing can be accomplished by demeaning the views and personage of another individual. Anyone can do it but where does it get you. I have not won anything. You have not won anything. It is simply hypocritical to suggest to others that they cannot do it to you but it's okay to do it to them. How ridiculous is that? I believe this is the one of the great divides between one side or the other. There is no way either is going to listen to the other if they are offensive and condescending.

Point taken, although I don't think any of that is really news to anyone. And please don't mistake candor for condescension.

I will say, it has been interesting and I believe I have broadened and strengthened myself and I have learned alot. I'm going to probably start a new thread, if there isn't one already, on the Reality of God. You are all invited if you would like to search it out.

If you do start such a thread, would you be kind enough to provide the link here? I'd be interested in seeing your take on things outside of the Crevo bubble.
 
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JamesDaJust

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To one and all,

As you know I have spent the earlier part of my day, ridiculing and patronizing many posts and postees. My point was to show that it has no point. It is sheer foolishness. Nothing can be accomplished by demeaning the views and personage of another individual. Anyone can do it but where does it get you. I have not won anything. You have not won anything. It is simply hypocritical to suggest to others that they cannot do it to you but it's okay to do it to them. How ridiculous is that? I believe this is the one of the great divides between one side or the other. There is no way either is going to listen to the other if they are offensive and condescending.
:blush:

I also, think that we have left the point of these threads and I will take the blame for that because I have interjected God into it. I have thought several times that I should leave and get into other threads that fit me more, but it seemed I always had some post to answer. I think it's time to get off this merry-go-round because it doesn't seem to be going anywhere.
:blush:

I will say, it has been interesting and I believe I have broadened and strengthened myself and I have learned alot. I'm going to probably start a new thread, if there isn't one already, on the Reality of God. You are all invited if you would like to search it out.

I do hope you all consider what I said about putting other people down. It really doesn't accomplish a thing.

Of course, I'll probably "lurk" around every now and then and see what is going on but until then. Happy trails to you.:tutu:
:blush:
 
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