Some Reasons I Don't Believe in Evolution

[AV1611VET]

http://www.christianforums.com/t7593157-8/#post58619458

Never = a couple of weeks apparently.

Peter

I fully expect to get beaten to death with their experience.

This is -- more or less -- a test thread.

 

[Hentenza]

Oh, my! You could have at least said, "Hello!"

Nice to meet you!

Okay, I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying.

I do realize that copy-errors are what makes us all unique.

If not for copy-errors, then we would all look the same.

So, let's assume then, for the sake of arguing, that indeed information does get added in once in awhile.

It's a LONG way from molecule-to-man; or cyanobacterium-to-man -- don't you think?

In fact, it appears the whole macroevolution industry depends on these additions, eh?

Not to mention that only mutations that are represented in the single chromosome of a sex cell actually has a chance (the chance is random) to be passed on. One can have a trillion mutated alleles but if it does not get there during meiosis then there is no chance that the mutation will be expressed. Imagine the amount of random mutations necessary to go from a one cell organism to man.

 

[AV1611VET]

Not to mention that only mutations that are represented in the single chromosome of a sex cell actually has a chance (the chance is random) to be passed on. One can have a trillion mutated alleles but if it does not get there during meiosis then there is no chance that the mutation will be expressed. Imagine the amount of random mutations necessary to go from a one cell organism to man.

Here's an excerpt from one of the sites I'm reading:

Only mutations in the reproductive (germ) cells of an animal or plant would be passed on. Mutations in the eye or skin of an animal would not matter. Mutations in DNA happen fairly often, but most are repaired or destroyed by mechanisms in animals and plants. All known mutations in animal and plant germ cells are neutral, harmful, or fatal. But evolutionists are eternally optimistic. They believe that millions of beneficial mutations built every type of creature that ever existed.

SOURCE

 

[Ryal Kane]

Oh, my! You could have at least said, "Hello!"

Nice to meet you!

Okay, I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying.

I do realize that copy-errors are what makes us all unique.

If not for copy-errors, then we would all look the same.

So, let's assume then, for the sake of arguing, that indeed information does get added in once in awhile.

It's a LONG way from molecule-to-man; or cyanobacterium-to-man -- don't you think?

In fact, it appears the whole macroevolution industry depends on these additions, eh?

SpiceDMind21 seems to have beaten me to the punch in answering your questions regarding the STOP mutations. But before we continue, I'd like to clarify something.
Do you accept that these copy errors add information? Not just 'For the sake of argument' but in practice.

I'd like to deal with this one point before moving onto the next one.

 

[Ration]

1. Bacteria produce a new variation every twenty minutes to twenty-four hours and are found in every environment on earth, yet despite being at the limits of variation, no bacterium changes into something else.

E. coli long-term evolution experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My personal favourite part:

"In 2008, Lenski and his collaborators reported on a particularly important adaptation that occurred in one of the twelve populations: the bacteria evolved the ability to utilize citrate as a source of energy. Wild type E. coli cannot transport citrate across the cell membrane to the cell interior (where it could be incorporated into the citric acid cycle) when oxygen is present. The consequent lack of growth on citrate under oxic conditions is considered a defining characteristic of the species that has been a valuable means of differentiating E. coli from pathogenic Salmonella"

So, arguably, it's a new species.

 

[SpiceDMind21]

Oh, my! You could have at least said, "Hello!"

Nice to meet you!

Okay, I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying.

I do realize that copy-errors are what makes us all unique.

If not for copy-errors, then we would all look the same.

So, let's assume then, for the sake of arguing, that indeed information does get added in once in awhile.

It's a LONG way from molecule-to-man; or cyanobacterium-to-man -- don't you think?

In fact, it appears the whole macroevolution industry depends on these additions, eh?

I do think it's a long journey! I haven't been lurking enough to know what the "macroevolution industry" is, sadly. However, since different species have different lengths of DNA, it makes sense that, over the course of evolution, the length of genetic code has increased. I would like to know what you are aiming at with the question? Do you believe it is impossible in the sense that an error in DNA replication could not lead to additional base pairs in the code? Or do you believe that such additions could not lead to significant change? I must admit it will be much harder to demonstrate the plausibility of the former, because I am not a biologist and I will have stick my head into the kind of scientific papers that I don't have the degrees to understand. The latter, however; that is not so hard. If a small change is possible, then those changes can add up over time.

Now, there is certainly a lot of evidence for this in the fossil record. You can find evidence of many proto-organs. For instance, many people say that the eye must have evolved all at once, or it would have no benefit to the animal, but we can see records of (or even animals alive today!) that have everything from light-sensitive spots, to light-sensitive depressions, to concave depressions that allow for primitive focusing, etc. Each change is beneficial and not drastic, but if you just wait, wait for millions and millions of years, eventually those little changes add up.

And I saw another poster comment on how likely it would be that a mutation propagates to offspring, when they inherit only half the genetic code from each parent. I bet there have been beneficial traits that were lost by chance!

But that is what we are talking about here, just chance. That's what is so wonderful (or perhaps terrible!) about the whole idea-- evolution has no purpose, no goal. It is just a concept-- if you accept mutations occur, then mutations that give an individual a better chance of reproducing have a better chance of reproducing. It is more an observation, and it fits in with the evidence we see all around us in the diversity of life today and in the fossil record.

That is all. It can be confusing. But I hope you will read my post with an open mind before you mount a counterargument. I am sure you will have a lively response! What better way to learn?

 

[Ration]

Now, there is certainly a lot of evidence for this in the fossil record. You can find evidence of many proto-organs. For instance, many people say that the eye must have evolved all at once, or it would have no benefit to the animal, but we can see records of (or even animals alive today!) that have everything from light-sensitive spots, to light-sensitive depressions, to concave depressions that allow for primitive focusing, etc. Each change is beneficial and not drastic, but if you just wait, wait for millions and millions of years, eventually those little changes add up.

Marry me?

 

[gaara4158]

Oh, my! You could have at least said, "Hello!"

Nice to meet you!

Okay, I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying.

I do realize that copy-errors are what makes us all unique.

If not for copy-errors, then we would all look the same.

So, let's assume then, for the sake of arguing, that indeed information does get added in once in awhile.

It's a LONG way from molecule-to-man; or cyanobacterium-to-man -- don't you think?

In fact, it appears the whole macroevolution industry depends on these additions, eh?

3 billion years is a long time.

 

[Greg1234]

3 billion years is a long time.

I know! Just ask Jupiter.

 

[Incariol]

I know! Just ask Jupiter.

Jupiter and Thetis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"Eleven days went by, and at dawn on the twelfth the everlasting gods returned in full strength to Olympus, with Zeus at their head. Thetis, remembering her son's instructions, emerged in the morning from the depths of the sea, rose into the broad sky and reached Olympus. She found the all-seeing Zeus sitting away from the rest on the topmost of Olympus' many peaks. She sank to the ground beside him, put her left arm round his knees, raised her right hand to touch his chin, and so made her petition to the Royal Son of Cronos." --Iliad I

 

[driewerf]

3. Variation involves a loss of information, not a gain. This means that even though a species may adapt to a new environment, it does so by losing a big part of its genetic information. If the new environment is a temporary one, such as a minor ice age, the adapted species will die out as soon as the environment changes back; it will not evolve back to where it came from.

AV1611VET, before answering this, do you know how DNA codes for proteines?

 

[AV1611VET]

Do you accept that these copy errors add information? Not just 'For the sake of argument' but in practice.

No.

 

[AV1611VET]

AV1611VET, before answering this, do you know how DNA codes for proteines?

No.

 

[Nostromo]

I heard God hands out candy to the ignorant in heaven.

 

[AV1611VET]

I heard God hands out candy to the ignorant in heaven.

Want some?

 

[Jazer]

I heard God hands out candy to the ignorant in heaven.

There is no candy in Heaven. There is Fruit in Heaven that will be a lot better then what you call candy.

On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Rev 22:2

Proverbs 11:30 NKJV) The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life

 

[Nostromo]

Want some?

My place is in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. Perhaps they do BBQ.

There is no candy in Heaven. There is Fruit in Heaven that will be a lot better then what you call candy.

On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations. Rev 22:2

Proverbs 11:30 NKJV) The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life

Doesn't it tell you something when Wal-Mart has a better selection than heaven?

For some reason heaven sounds just like the product of a 1st century Jewish imagination. Golden measuring rod!

"Hey Uriel, you can borrow my Disto"

 

[AV1611VET]

My place is in the fiery lake of burning sulphur. Perhaps they do BBQ.
Doesn't it tell you something when Wal-Mart has a better selection than heaven?

For some reason heaven sounds just like the product of a 1st century Jewish imagination. Golden measuring rod!

"Hey Uriel, you can borrow my Disto"

Did your dad give you his p/w?

 

[No Time]

The Bible is the greatest of all books;
to study it is the noblest of all pursuits;
to understand it, the highest of all goals;
to believe that it's all true is just plain silly.

 

[AV1611VET]

The Bible is the greatest of all books;
to study it is the noblest of all pursuits;
to understand it, the highest of all goals;
to believe that it's all true is just plain silly.

To deny Its Author is to burn in Hell.