• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

Some random discussion on evolution...

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,120
7,465
31
Wales
✟426,379.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single
It's always funny when people who explicitly try to apply the Genesis account to history call evolution 'magic'.

And this trend of lay-people who clearly have no actual scientific knowledge or background that think they can overturn over a full century of research and clear science in the theory of evolution won't stop anytime soon, will it?
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy. The article argues about nothing but it just states two simple facts. Stating facts is neither an argument nor a fallacy.
The article sets out an entirely bogus description of the evolution of bisexual reproduction and then argues against it--a classic straw man fallacy.
 
Upvote 0

Yttrium

Mad Scientist
May 19, 2019
4,477
4,968
Pacific NW
✟307,527.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single


Sure, you don't need to know anything about evolution to make a detailed argument from incredulity against it. The best defense to an opposing idea is willful ignorance. Thank you for clarifying your position.
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Just calling something a conceptual error doesn't make it one.

We spent hundreds of posts in this thread discussing them. Do we really need to go through all of that over again?

I mean, if you want an example your understanding of how you think sexual reproductive organs would have evolved in conceptually wrong. Not only would they not have evolved independently but nobody actually thinks that how they would have evolved in the first place. As Speedwell correctly points out, you're just using your misconception as a strawman argument.

If you spend some time reading about different reproductive strategies you can find examples that are not strict binary sexuality (e.g. parasexuality, asexuality, hermaphroditism, etc). Likewise, read up on the evolution sexual reproduction, a topic which has seen a lot of study of the years.
 
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,231
10,127
✟284,069.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Perhaps if Contradiction were to spend time studying papers such as the following he might revise his views.

Mitochondria, the Cell Cycle, and the Origin of Sex via a Syncytial Eukaryote Common Ancestor

What can we infer about the origin of sex in early eukaryotes?

Evolutionary dynamics of cytoplasmic segregation and fusion: Mitochondrial mixing facilitated the evolution of sex at the origin of eukaryotes

Sex is a ubiquitous, ancient, and inherent attribute of eukaryotic life

Then again, probably not.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Perhaps you can help us out then. Yes, we got carried away by the grotesque mischaracterization of the evolution of sexual reproduction and the inaptness of the "lock and key" analogy as description of evolution generally. I don't think anybody mentioned the "but they're still e. coli" whine but that's so stale we mostly tune it out nowadays. So what was the point you were trying to make with that article? Maybe you could do better if you just expressed it in your own words.
 
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
And another.

Isn't it funny how you all ignored two simple facts presented in the article and just trolled the topic with labels and irrelevant points?

You mean your claims about the E.coli experiment and human evolution? That was already discussed to death in this thread already.

When it comes to those examples you're looking at comparatively limited windows of evolutionary change while downplaying any evolutionary changes that have occurred, and then using those limited examples to grossly overgeneralize about a process that affects biology on a much greater scope.

It's just the same error you made in the OP all over again.

On top of that, the bulk of the article in question is based around this lock/key analogy for sexual reproduction and creating a complete strawman argument about the evolution of sexual reproduction in the process.

Rather than being "labels and irrelevant points" these are again direct criticisms of the heart of the arguments you try to make. And once again you're just hand-waving any criticism aside without attempting to address them.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

Ophiolite

Recalcitrant Procrastinating Ape
Nov 12, 2008
9,231
10,127
✟284,069.00
Country
United Kingdom
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
Perhaps if you were to understand what this topic is about you wouldn't troll it with some randomly picked articles.
The point under discussion at present is your misunderstanding of how evolutionary theory accounts for the origin of sex. Thus any material focusing on the origin of sex is relevant.

You also appear to have an interesting definition of random. (Is that the same definition many creationists apply when they claim that evolution is a random process?) I searched specifically for papers that were recent and represented a mix of review and novel concepts. That makes the papers a specific, directed solution - anything but random.
 
Upvote 0

Warden_of_the_Storm

Well-Known Member
Oct 16, 2015
15,120
7,465
31
Wales
✟426,379.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Deist
Marital Status
Single

No, it's a salient point. The mechanisms and science of evolution can easily be learned in simple and easily understood terms, and the process of evolution is incredibly easy to understand.
And yet you call it 'magic'. A term which can more rightly be applied to YEC and any other attempts to put the Genesis account and a literal Bible reading into science.

And the second point stands too. You, in the simplest and most literal terms, are a layperson. You are not an accredited scientists of any stripe or form. So why on Earth do you think that anything you write can overturn nearly a centuries worth, and also a literal globe's worth, of scientific query and findings?
 
Upvote 0

DaisyDay

I Did Nothing Wrong!! ~~Team Deep State
Jan 7, 2003
41,767
19,810
Finger Lakes
✟307,048.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Others
The point under discussion at present is your misunderstanding of how evolutionary theory accounts for the origin of sex. Thus any material focusing on the origin of sex is relevant.
No, per the OP, the point of this thread is that evolutionary theory is WRONG; therefore, articles about how it happened are off-topic.
 
Reactions: pitabread
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
So are you ready to discuss why your "lock and key" characterization does not describe anything the theory of evolution claims?
 
Upvote 0

pitabread

Well-Known Member
Jan 29, 2017
12,920
13,373
Frozen North
✟344,333.00
Country
Canada
Gender
Male
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Private
And still... evolutionists on this topic vehemently ignore the facts I presented in the article, and they do their usual trolling.

There are at least a half dozen posts specifically discussing the points you raised in the article. Of which you haven't responded to any of them, instead you're just hand-waving away any criticism.


Not only is this completely incorrect (as has been already discussed in responses to your article), it's completely unsupported by anything you've written.

So like I have already said, they can't actually discuss something. They just label the opposing points of view and resort to name-calling.

Pointing out that you don't have a conceptual understanding of the ToE and you're using a strawman argument isn't name-calling. It's pointing out fundamental flaws with what you have written.

Being dismissive of any critiques and then doubling down on your claims isn't helping your case here.
 
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

VirOptimus

A nihilist who cares.
Aug 24, 2005
6,814
4,422
54
✟258,187.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Married

Lots of empty assertions, no substance.
 
Reactions: Jimmy D
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
What the theory of evolution does not claim is that the female and male reproductive functions evolved independently of each other.
 
Upvote 0

Speedwell

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2016
23,928
17,626
82
St Charles, IL
✟347,280.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Marital Status
Married
Unless you are interested in talking about what the real theory of evolution has to say about how interdependent systems arise I don't think we have anything to discuss.
 
Upvote 0

Yttrium

Mad Scientist
May 19, 2019
4,477
4,968
Pacific NW
✟307,527.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Skeptic
Marital Status
Single
...because there is no causality in nature by which functionality interdependent structures will come into existence together.

This is an assertion. There is no basis for your assertion. You're basically trying to define reality your way so evolution can't work in it.

It's also a surprisingly empty assertion. At least flat Earthers have a (weak) Biblical reference for their flat Earth assertions. You don't even have that.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0