Some questions

[Cieza]

I struck a raw nerve in my last post, I was so relieved that he forgave me and reopened the line of communication. Must be wary of this in future - foot in mouth again

What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?

Because that future time has not happened yet, we only have Jesus' word for evidence, so it is to be taken on the grounds of faith. That is what John 3:16 means "whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life". It's not so hard, most people who love life actually desire deep within for this to be true.

Then why are there so many religions which don't involve Jesus and full of people who love life?

What does it mean to be "saved"?

One day when everything that has to happen first has happened, then Jesus will come back from heaven to earth and the dead who belong to Him will be resurrected and the living who belong to Him will be given immortal bodies. Then the books will be read, those who are condemned will receive judgment, then the earth will be rolled up like carpet and thrown in the lake of fire and there will be a new earth with Jesus and all His people and no more devil to tempt us. It will be a perfect and holy world where there is no more evil.

What evidence do you have that Jesus will come back?
What evidence do you have that Jesus is in heaven?
How is it determined what dead people belong to Jesus?
Why would it be to the advantage of a dead person to belong to Jesus?
What evidence do you have that the earth will be thrown into a lake of fire?
Why is it necessary for such a process to occur for there to be no more evil?

What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?

EVERYTHING GOD TELLS YOU.

What if you don't hear God tell you anything? Does that mean you don't need to believe anything to be saved?

What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?

I don't know the answer to that, because God says "vengeance is mine", but it does involve unpleasant experience and eventual death into everlasting unconsciousness.

What evidence do you have that dead people are anything other than in everlasting unconsciousness?


What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?

It is what Jesus said and He was just as honest when He spoke as any other of God's prophets have been. Therefore, it is what God is telling us by speaking to us through His prophets.

What evidence is there that what Jesus said has anything to do with who will be condemned?
Who are God's prophets?
Why does God speak through prophets and not directly?


What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?

Sometimes I can see the spirit of Christ in those who belong to Him, sometimes I just see their eternal soul is at peace in His salvation. Our eternal life definitely begins when we are "born again".

How can you see a spirit if it is not of the physical world?
Do spirits reflect light?
If I take a photograph of a spirit, will it appear as a spirit in the photograph?
Earlier, you suggested that only deceased people belong to Christ. Can you see the spirit of Christ in dead people?
Does "born again" refer to a physiological process of being born? If not, why would Christians use such confusing lingo?

What do you mean by "another friend"?

Well, just someone I can be nice to and who will be nice to me too

What evidence do you have that you will have friends in heaven?


If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?

I don't believe that our consciousness survives death, only by resurrection will we live after we have died.

Are you saying that through resurrection, we will have consciousness after we have died? If so, what evidence do you have that humans can have consciousness after death?


If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know.

What is your best guess: If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?


How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?

It appeared to my brain as an audible voice that came through my ears and had the pattern of a physical man standing beside my bed complete with the room's reverb.

Did you hear this audible voice with your ears in such a way that if someone else were in the room with you, they would have heard it too?


If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?

Tough question. There is always a struggle for dominance when we speak to God. Our own flesh battles against us. There is a verse in scripture that says "be still and know that I am God", I think this is describing meditation.

If God knows everything we are thinking, then why do Christians encourage others to pray out loud as opposed to silently?


Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?

Well that is a good question, and one I have recently discovered how to understand by contemplating the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. It is all about trust. Who do we trust. If you remember the story, God left Adam and Eve unattended in the garden while the serpent approached them and presented a lie. So what did they do? They trusted the stranger instead of trusting God. So I think this world is like the garden where we are placed and presented with the opportunity to trust what God says or what someone else says, and this is apparently God's way of knowing who can be trusted to live forever that they won't betray Him when given the opportunity. It's about trust and loyalty.

Is doing it this way worth the price of some humans not recognizing something as God communicating with them?


If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?

I think two people listening to audible data will hear the same thing regardless of their belief. What they think about it might be quite different though.

By that logic, when God speaks, an atheist hears it just as well as a Christian hears it.


If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?

Everybody interprets every piece of data differently because we each have unique memory data and perception.

Were we given this unique memory data & perception by God?

What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

When I read those words my brain tells me it is true. I don't know how to explain this to you, you either see it as being true or you don't.

Why would God create some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is true and some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is false?

 

[oi_antz]

Cieza, you are a hard person to make sense to. I'm not sure if this is deliberate but it is seeming that way to me. Nevertheless there is a verse in the bible which commands us to be perfectly patient with one another. There is also another verse which tells us not to cast our holiness before swine. I intend with this post to establish the manner in which I will regard you herein.

What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?

Because that future time has not happened yet, we only have Jesus' word for evidence, so it is to be taken on the grounds of faith. That is what John 3:16 means "whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life". It's not so hard, most people who love life actually desire deep within for this to be true.

Then why are there so many religions which don't involve Jesus and full of people who love life?

I believe it is possible they have come to know Christ's likeness by believing what God has told them through sources that are not biblical. Notice that God could have chosen to inseminate a virgin from any religion or nation, but He chose to make Jesus a Jew. You'd have been conditioned I expect to believe that Jesus would have to have been a Jew because Israel was God's chosen people. I believe that is putting the cart before the horse. Israel was God's chosen people because it was from them Jesus would come.

What does it mean to be "saved"?

One day when everything that has to happen first has happened, then Jesus will come back from heaven to earth and the dead who belong to Him will be resurrected and the living who belong to Him will be given immortal bodies. Then the books will be read, those who are condemned will receive judgment, then the earth will be rolled up like carpet and thrown in the lake of fire and there will be a new earth with Jesus and all His people and no more devil to tempt us. It will be a perfect and holy world where there is no more evil.

What evidence do you have that Jesus will come back?

Jesus promised.

What evidence do you have that Jesus is in heaven?

Luke wrote of the disciples watching Him ascend into heaven.

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

How is it determined what dead people belong to Jesus?

Good question, I am glad you asked this one.

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Jesus is telling us in this verse that He makes that decision.

Why would it be to the advantage of a dead person to belong to Jesus?

Dead people were once alive.

What evidence do you have that the earth will be thrown into a lake of fire?

It is something God has told us.

Why is it necessary for such a process to occur for there to be no more evil?

It is too hard for me to presume God's reason. I think mormon's could answer this by saying the angels each need to have lived a human life before they could be saved. I couldn't argue with them about this, I could just ask for biblical evidence. Perhaps if you begin a thread about this you might be able to catch the true idea (but I would expect you to discover a lot of phony ideas too).

What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?

EVERYTHING GOD TELLS YOU.

What if you don't hear God tell you anything? Does that mean you don't need to believe anything to be saved?

No it means you don't believe that God is speaking to you. You have closed your ears and closed your eyes, otherwise you would turn to Him so He could heal your ears and eyes and you would love Him. Jesus described what has happened to people who are in your situation, you have believed once that the bible is not true and then the enemy has come and snatched the seed out of your heart so it cannot grow.

What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?

You are cut off from the source of life: Christ. Once your body dies you will have no part of Christ because your spirit is dead in sin.

I don't know the answer to that, because God says "vengeance is mine", but it does involve unpleasant experience and eventual death into everlasting unconsciousness.

What evidence do you have that dead people are anything other than in everlasting unconsciousness?

Jesus lives.

What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?

It is what Jesus said and He was just as honest when He spoke as any other of God's prophets have been. Therefore, it is what God is telling us by speaking to us through His prophets.

What evidence is there that what Jesus said has anything to do with who will be condemned?

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.

Who are God's prophets?

Anyone God chooses.

Why does God speak through prophets and not directly?

God does speak directly.
Numbers 11:25
And the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to Moses. Then he gave the seventy elders the same Spirit that was upon Moses. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But this never happened again.

What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?

I can speak to people about Jesus and they are receptive. Those are my eternal friends, they are not condemned by Christ, but they are free'd by Him. People who do not receive me in Christ's name are condemned in Christ because they refused to accept Jesus.

Sometimes I can see the spirit of Christ in those who belong to Him, sometimes I just see their eternal soul is at peace in His salvation. Our eternal life definitely begins when we are "born again".

How can you see a spirit if it is not of the physical world?

Spiritual possession. The spirit controls the body.

Do spirits reflect light?

No, they can manipulate matter though which they could use to reflect light, why do you ask this?

If I take a photograph of a spirit, will it appear as a spirit in the photograph?

It would most likely be a photograph of carnality that is distorted to form the shape that the spirit wanted to show you.

Earlier, you suggested that only deceased people belong to Christ. Can you see the spirit of Christ in dead people?

You must have misunderstood what I said.

Does "born again" refer to a physiological process of being born? If not, why would Christians use such confusing lingo?

That is a big question. It is easily answered by accepting the verse I just showed you:

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him (these people have been born again and they have eternal life in Christ). But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. (these people are spiritually dead because they prefer to sin instead of having eternal life in Christ)

What do you mean by "another friend"?

Well, just someone I can be nice to and who will be nice to me too

What evidence do you have that you will have friends in heaven?

I think you are confusing heaven with the concept of everlasting life. Read Revelation 21:

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.[a] 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?

I don't believe that our consciousness survives death, only by resurrection will we live after we have died.

Are you saying that through resurrection, we will have consciousness after we have died? If so, what evidence do you have that humans can have consciousness after death?

This is what God has told us.

If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know.

What is your best guess: If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know that an angel would allow itself to be captured, sorry.

How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?

It appeared to my brain as an audible voice that came through my ears and had the pattern of a physical man standing beside my bed complete with the room's reverb.

Did you hear this audible voice with your ears in such a way that if someone else were in the room with you, they would have heard it too?

Yes, to the best of my knowledge.

If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?

Tough question. There is always a struggle for dominance when we speak to God. Our own flesh battles against us. There is a verse in scripture that says "be still and know that I am God", I think this is describing meditation.

If God knows everything we are thinking, then why do Christians encourage others to pray out loud as opposed to silently?

I only know of this being done so two or more people can agree to the same prayer. If you are praying behind a closed door and you are praying aloud, I don't know that it is especially beneficial, though if you asked such a Christian why they do it you could come to understand their reason for doing so.

Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?

Well that is a good question, and one I have recently discovered how to understand by contemplating the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. It is all about trust. Who do we trust. If you remember the story, God left Adam and Eve unattended in the garden while the serpent approached them and presented a lie. So what did they do? They trusted the stranger instead of trusting God. So I think this world is like the garden where we are placed and presented with the opportunity to trust what God says or what someone else says, and this is apparently God's way of knowing who can be trusted to live forever that they won't betray Him when given the opportunity. It's about trust and loyalty.

Is doing it this way worth the price of some humans not recognizing something as God communicating with them?

As I understand, yes. Let me show you the parable which describes God's reasoning:

Parable of the Wheat and Weeds

24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.
27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”

If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?

I think two people listening to audible data will hear the same thing regardless of their belief. What they think about it might be quite different though.

By that logic, when God speaks, an atheist hears it just as well as a Christian hears it.

Ok.

If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?

Everybody interprets every piece of data differently because we each have unique memory data and perception.

Were we given this unique memory data & perception by God?

Not afraid to think for yourself are you? Our perceptions came by natural selection, and memory data from individual life experience.

What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

When I read those words my brain tells me it is true. I don't know how to explain this to you, you either see it as being true or you don't.

Why would God create some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is true and some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is false?

It is consequential to living in a world where some people want to live in sin and others want to know God instead.

Just to let you know, the mod deleted your posts off this thread because it belongs to pantherz. I am also not meant to encourage you to break the forum rules, so I would suggest you post your next set of questions on a new thread, that way you will be the owner of the thread and we won't be breaking any rules.

Edit: scratch that last paragraph, I was confused with another thread

 

[razeontherock]

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If you say you cannot get something from nothing as a basis for God existing, then you are defining God as a "something" and not a "nothing". Since the argument you're positing is that you cannot get something from nothing and God is inherently a "something" in your statement, then you're on the hook to explain where the "something" God came from. If you can't, then God must be a "nothing".

This is not a flaw, except in your thinking

 

[razeontherock]

The OP should take note that the Bible was written by man - not God - does not contain a FAQ and does not contain a useful glossary.

FALSE. The Bible defines it's own terms - but it requires patience and a pure heart to see it.

 

[razeontherock]

If you're trying to sell your product or idea to someone who will only be interested if there is a FAQ, then it is necessary. And it is a turnoff to me that it doesn't contain a FAQ

Is it time to put up a please do not feed the trolls sign?

That leads to the question of why isn't there a Bible which identifies which portions should be taken literally and which portions as hyperbole?

There are many. Seems like that bit about "seek and ye shall find" has fallen on deaf ears?

How can I discuss things with something that I cannot hear, see or get any acknowledgement that it hears me?

This is VERY on target! You absolutely CAN hear Him, via the Holy Bible. This is one proven starting point, for all of us. If you are sincere about making any progress, you need to learn to adopt the proper attitude towards approaching it - and that does NOT include demanding a DeLorean to go back 2000 years to re-write everything per modern conventions, like FAQ's and glossaries.

 

[razeontherock]

Do you have an independent unbiased source that can back up your temperature differences theory?

It's also held (by the scientific community) that if the Universe were eternal, the night sky would be white, not black.

 

[Cieza]

Cieza, you are a hard person to make sense to. I'm not sure if this is deliberate but it is seeming that way to me. Nevertheless there is a verse in the bible which commands us to be perfectly patient with one another. There is also another verse which tells us not to cast our holiness before swine. I intend with this post to establish the manner in which I will regard you herein.

Nothing deliberate about it. There are several factors involved:
- I’m more interested in reality than fairy tales
- My formulation of what Christianity is based strictly on what other Christians have told me – either live or via the web
- Much of what I have been told doesn’t add up right.


Originally Posted by Cieza
What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?

Because that future time has not happened yet, we only have Jesus' word for evidence, so it is to be taken on the grounds of faith. That is what John 3:16 means "whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life". It's not so hard, most people who love life actually desire deep within for this to be true.

Then why are there so many religions which don't involve Jesus and full of people who love life?
I believe it is possible they have come to know Christ's likeness by believing what God has told them through sources that are not biblical. Notice that God could have chosen to inseminate a virgin from any religion or nation, but He chose to make Jesus a Jew. You'd have been conditioned I expect to believe that Jesus would have to have been a Jew because Israel was God's chosen people. I believe that is putting the cart before the horse. Israel was God's chosen people because it was from them Jesus would come.


Why did God choose to use just one human body at one particular time such that only a very small portion of all of mankind would hear/see his message?
If one comes to know Christ’s likeness by believing things which aren’t biblical and doesn’t accept the physiological accounts of the world which are relayed in the Bible, does that preclude them from being “saved”?


What does it mean to be "saved"?

One day when everything that has to happen first has happened, then Jesus will come back from heaven to earth and the dead who belong to Him will be resurrected and the living who belong to Him will be given immortal bodies. Then the books will be read, those who are condemned will receive judgment, then the earth will be rolled up like carpet and thrown in the lake of fire and there will be a new earth with Jesus and all His people and no more devil to tempt us. It will be a perfect and holy world where there is no more evil.

What evidence do you have that Jesus will come back?
Jesus promised.

What evidence is there that Jesus promised anything?
What sort of track record does Jesus have when it comes to making promises and keeping them?

Originally Posted by Cieza
What evidence do you have that Jesus is in heaven?
Luke wrote of the disciples watching Him ascend into heaven.

9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.

What evidence is there that Luke’s account of the disciples watching Jesus ascending into heaven is accurate?



Originally Posted by Cieza
How is it determined what dead people belong to Jesus?
Good question, I am glad you asked this one.

The Sheep and the Goats

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

Jesus is telling us in this verse that He makes that decision.

What evidence is there that this passage wasn’t merely concocted to try to get people to keep from engaging in inappropriate behavior and/or from not being immoral?

Originally Posted by Cieza
Why would it be to the advantage of a dead person to belong to Jesus?
Dead people were once alive.

Naturally dead people were once alive. But why would it be to the advantage of a dead person to belong to Jesus?

Does a dead person even have the brain capacity to know who they do or don’t belong to?

Originally Posted by Cieza
What evidence do you have that the earth will be thrown into a lake of fire?
It is something God has told us.

God hasn’t told me that the earth will be thrown into a lake of fire. Why would he tell you and not tell me?
How did God tell us that the earth will be thrown into a lake of fire?



Originally Posted by Cieza
What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?

EVERYTHING GOD TELLS YOU.

What if you don't hear God tell you anything? Does that mean you don't need to believe anything to be saved?

No it means you don't believe that God is speaking to you. You have closed your ears and closed your eyes, otherwise you would turn to Him so He could heal your ears and eyes and you would love Him. Jesus described what has happened to people who are in your situation, you have believed once that the bible is not true and then the enemy has come and snatched the seed out of your heart so it cannot grow.

What part of the Bible do you think I don’t believe to be true?
I’m not making a willful choice to believe that much of what I read in the Bible about the physical world isn’t true. I’m going by first hand observations I’ve made of the physical world. I cannot and will not ignore what my eyes and ears tell me to conform to society – unless I have some sort of particular agenda which requires that I “play” church.

What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?
You are cut off from the source of life: Christ. Once your body dies you will have no part of Christ because your spirit is dead in sin.

Please explain how Christ is the source of life. Did Christ exist before life? If not, then how could he be the source of life?
Why does it matter what happens to your spirit after you die?

I don't know the answer to that, because God says "vengeance is mine", but it does involve unpleasant experience and eventual death into everlasting unconsciousness.

What evidence do you have that dead people are anything other than in everlasting unconsciousness?
Jesus lives.

What evidence do you have that Jesus is currently a living, breathing human being? Have you seen him in the living flesh? Has anyone you know seen him in the living flesh?

How does the living on of a man who lived some 2,000 years ago have any impact on the physiological nature of the human brain to retain any functionality after its host body has died?


What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?

It is what Jesus said and He was just as honest when He spoke as any other of God's prophets have been. Therefore, it is what God is telling us by speaking to us through His prophets.

What evidence is there that what Jesus said has anything to do with who will be condemned?

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God’s light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil.
What if my choice to not believe in God’s son is based strictly on evidence God has presented to me?
Why would God present evidence to me that would lead me to not believe in Jesus or God?

Who are God's prophets?
Anyone God chooses.

Who are God’s prophets? Provide some names and dates these people lived.

Why does God speak through prophets and not directly?
God does speak directly.
Numbers 11:25
And the Lord came down in the cloud and spoke to Moses. Then he gave the seventy elders the same Spirit that was upon Moses. And when the Spirit rested upon them, they prophesied. But this never happened again.
Why has God not spoken directly to me?

What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?


I can speak to people about Jesus and they are receptive. Those are my eternal friends, they are not condemned by Christ, but they are free'd by Him. People who do not receive me in Christ's name are condemned in Christ because they refused to accept Jesus.

Other than not being accepted by the Christian community, how is one hurt by being condemned in Christ?

Sometimes I can see the spirit of Christ in those who belong to Him, sometimes I just see their eternal soul is at peace in His salvation. Our eternal life definitely begins when we are "born again".

 

[Cieza]

Hi Cieza, this is almost an overwhelming response! There are a lot of questions here and I know you don't want to be pointed to the bible. Whats more is I know that your impression of God and Jesus and faith itself probably can go up or down from here depending how these questions are answered. So I will be brutally honest with you, as gentle as I can, and I hope that my presentation of the gospel will have a positive impact on your attitude toward God. I say this up front because I want you to know that if one person ever hated God because of what I said, Jesus says it would be better for a millstone to be tied around my neck and cast into the ocean. Jesus said that and I believe it. So please be patient with me and maybe if God agree's then together we can help you understand God's love.

How can you see a spirit if it is not of the physical world?
Spiritual possession. The spirit controls the body.

Can a spirit be seen with the eyes? Better worded, does a blind person have just as much capacity to see a spirit as does a sighted person?

Do spirits reflect light?
No, they can manipulate matter though which they could use to reflect light, why do you ask this?

Merely trying to establish if a spirit can be seen

If I take a photograph of a spirit, will it appear as a spirit in the photograph?
It would most likely be a photograph of carnality that is distorted to form the shape that the spirit wanted to show you.

Can you explain what a spirit looks like?

Earlier, you suggested that only deceased people belong to Christ. Can you see the spirit of Christ in dead people?
You must have misunderstood what I said.

Can you see the spirit of Christ in dead people?

Does "born again" refer to a physiological process of being born? If not, why would Christians use such confusing lingo?
That is a big question. It is easily answered by accepting the verse I just showed you:

18 “There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him (these people have been born again and they have eternal life in Christ). But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God’s one and only Son. (these people are spiritually dead because they prefer to sin instead of having eternal life in Christ)

Are preferring to sin and choosing to have eternal life in Christ mutually exclusive? Is preferring to sin the same as disagreeing with what the Bible says about the physical world?

What do you mean by "another friend"?

Well, just someone I can be nice to and who will be nice to me too

What evidence do you have that you will have friends in heaven?
I think you are confusing heaven with the concept of everlasting life. Read Revelation 21:

1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the old heaven and the old earth had disappeared. And the sea was also gone. 2 And I saw the holy city, the new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven like a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.
3 I heard a loud shout from the throne, saying, “Look, God’s home is now among his people! He will live with them, and they will be his people. God himself will be with them.[a] 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there will be no more death or sorrow or crying or pain. All these things are gone forever.”

In your words, what is the difference between heaven and everlasting life?

If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?

I don't believe that our consciousness survives death, only by resurrection will we live after we have died.

Are you saying that through resurrection, we will have consciousness after we have died? If so, what evidence do you have that humans can have consciousness after death?

This is what God has told us.

What physiological evidence do you have that a human brain can have enough functionality after it ceases to operate such that it brings consciousness to its host body?

If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know.

What is your best guess: If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know that an angel would allow itself to be captured, sorry.

Give me your educated guess: If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?

It appeared to my brain as an audible voice that came through my ears and had the pattern of a physical man standing beside my bed complete with the room's reverb.

Did you hear this audible voice with your ears in such a way that if someone else were in the room with you, they would have heard it too?
Yes, to the best of my knowledge.

How can you be sure you weren’t suffering from a delusion?

If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?

Tough question. There is always a struggle for dominance when we speak to God. Our own flesh battles against us. There is a verse in scripture that says "be still and know that I am God", I think this is describing meditation.

If God knows everything we are thinking, then why do Christians encourage others to pray out loud as opposed to silently?
I only know of this being done so two or more people can agree to the same prayer. If you are praying behind a closed door and you are praying aloud, I don't know that it is especially beneficial, though if you asked such a Christian why they do it you could come to understand their reason for doing so.

I will start a thread on this topic

Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?

Well that is a good question, and one I have recently discovered how to understand by contemplating the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. It is all about trust. Who do we trust. If you remember the story, God left Adam and Eve unattended in the garden while the serpent approached them and presented a lie. So what did they do? They trusted the stranger instead of trusting God. So I think this world is like the garden where we are placed and presented with the opportunity to trust what God says or what someone else says, and this is apparently God's way of knowing who can be trusted to live forever that they won't betray Him when given the opportunity. It's about trust and loyalty.

Is doing it this way worth the price of some humans not recognizing something as God communicating with them?
As I understand, yes. Let me show you the parable which describes God's reasoning:

Parable of the Wheat and Weeds

24 Here is another story Jesus told: “The Kingdom of Heaven is like a farmer who planted good seed in his field. 25 But that night as the workers slept, his enemy came and planted weeds among the wheat, then slipped away. 26 When the crop began to grow and produce grain, the weeds also grew.
27 “The farmer’s workers went to him and said, ‘Sir, the field where you planted that good seed is full of weeds! Where did they come from?’

28 “‘An enemy has done this!’ the farmer exclaimed.

“‘Should we pull out the weeds?’ they asked.

29 “‘No,’ he replied, ‘you’ll uproot the wheat if you do. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest. Then I will tell the harvesters to sort out the weeds, tie them into bundles, and burn them, and to put the wheat in the barn.’”

Give it to me in your words. Is doing it this way worth the price of some humans not recognizing something as God communicating with them?


If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?

I think two people listening to audible data will hear the same thing regardless of their belief. What they think about it might be quite different though.

By that logic, when God speaks, an atheist hears it just as well as a Christian hears it.
Ok.

So if I understand correctly, when God speaks, an atheist or non-theist will hear God just as well as a Christian will. When God speaks, does he speak in English?

If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?

Everybody interprets every piece of data differently because we each have unique memory data and perception.

Were we given this unique memory data & perception by God?
Not afraid to think for yourself are you? Our perceptions came by natural selection, and memory data from individual life experience.

Are you saying we didn’t get our ability to have memory and perception from God?

What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

When I read those words my brain tells me it is true. I don't know how to explain this to you, you either see it as being true or you don't.

Why would God create some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is true and some people such that their brain tells them that the Bible is false?
It is consequential to living in a world where some people want to live in sin and others want to know God instead.

Does wanting to know God equate to not living in sin? What if a non-theist wants to not live in sin, but refuses to accept the concept of an omniscient & omnipotent being?

 

[Cieza]

This is VERY on target! You absolutely CAN hear Him, via the Holy Bible. This is one proven starting point, for all of us. If you are sincere about making any progress, you need to learn to adopt the proper attitude towards approaching it - and that does NOT include demanding a DeLorean to go back 2000 years to re-write everything per modern conventions, like FAQ's and glossaries.

No Bible I have ever seen makes any sounds.

What kind of evidence that God can be heard through a book which doesn't make any sounds?