Some questions

[Cieza]

The greatest argument for a Divine being (God) is that nothing comes out of nothing. This is a fact that is not only known to science, it is obvious to the common man.

In the end, we are forced to admit that either one or the other or two fundamental propositions is correct.

Either:

There is an eternal God who created everything.

Or:

The physical universe has always existed.

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If you say you cannot get something from nothing as a basis for God existing, then you are defining God as a "something" and not a "nothing". Since the argument you're positing is that you cannot get something from nothing and God is inherently a "something" in your statement, then you're on the hook to explain where the "something" God came from. If you can't, then God must be a "nothing".

 

[Biblewriter]

There's an inherent flaw in your logic. If you say you cannot get something from nothing as a basis for God existing, then you are defining God as a "something" and not a "nothing". Since the argument you're positing is that you cannot get something from nothing and God is inherently a "something" in your statement, then you're on the hook to explain where the "something" God came from. If you can't, then God must be a "nothing".

Your claimed "flaw" does not exist. For you only considered part of the argument. The argument is that there has to be something that is eternal, and that eternal thing cannot be the universe. Therefore it has to be God.

 

[Cieza]

Your claimed "flaw" does not exist. For you only considered part of the argument. The argument is that there has to be something that is eternal, and that eternal thing cannot be the universe. Therefore it has to be God.

Why can't the universe be eternal?

If it's so easy for you to accept that this "you cannot get something from nothing" traces back to something eternal and stops there, then can you provide some reason why it can't stop with the universe?

 

[2thePoint]

The universe is running down; we learned that in basic physics classes. That which runs down cannot be eternal.

 

[Cieza]

The OP should take note that the Bible was written by man - not God - does not contain a FAQ and does not contain a useful glossary. It is also full of writings that seem to be fictional - but the Bible doesn't specify what sections to take literally and what sections to take as hyperbole.

What is your point? The OP asked a question and I responded. What I said has worked for millions of people. I can't talk for all of them, however, for me reading and studying becomes more rewarding the more I do it.

I wish the OP good luck with his/her search.

Many Christians have told me the Bible was written by God when it was really written by man.

Many Christians have told me that I would understand God & Christianity by reading the Bible. I have done so, but have encountered numerous problems:

1) The Bible doesn't contain a FAQ
2) There are dozens of contradictions in the Bible
3) There are many stories in the Bible that defy the laws of the physical world
4) There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole
5) The Bible doesn't explain where God came from
6) The Bible raises far more questions than it answers
7) There is no glossary of terms in the Bible

 

[Deaver]

Many Christians have told me the Bible was written by God when it was really written by man.

It was written by man through the inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Many Christians have told me that I would understand God & Christianity by reading the Bible. I have done so, but have encountered numerous problems:

Perhaps you gave up to soon.

1) The Bible doesn't contain a FAQ

Neither do a lot of other reputable reference works

2) There are dozens of contradictions in the Bible

You and others have thought so, but when the research was complete, no contradictions have been found. Of course if some one is looking for contradictions they may think they have found some.

3) There are many stories in the Bible that defy the laws of the physical world
4) There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole

The Bible should be read in a “plain sense”. Then one will be able to see what should be interpreted literally or as an allegory,

5) The Bible doesn't explain where God came from

That is because God is Eternal

6) The Bible raises far more questions than it answers

Look closer, the answer is there or perhaps you aren’t ready for the answer. I have found the latter to be true and then in time the answer is forthcoming.

7) There is no glossary of terms in the Bible

Then you can Google “glossary of terms in the Bible” and find plenty of resources to help you.

 

[oi_antz]

Many Christians have told me the Bible was written by God when it was really written by man.

Many Christians have told me that I would understand God & Christianity by reading the Bible. I have done so, but have encountered numerous problems:

Hi Cieza, since you seem to be ignoring me on the other thread, I'll have a crack at your questions here:

1) The Bible doesn't contain a FAQ

It's not strictly necessary, evidently.

2) There are dozens of contradictions in the Bible

I think it's been proven well enough that said contradictions are flaws of interpretation.

3) There are many stories in the Bible that defy the laws of the physical world

Yep, that is how powerful God is.

4) There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole

"Very difficult" - not "impossible", seems to me you might be afraid to try.

5) The Bible doesn't explain where God came from

Actually it does.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

6) The Bible raises far more questions than it answers

Is that a bad thing?

7) There is no glossary of terms in the Bible

No there's not, but the words are very specifically chosen to say concisely what the writer means to say. Written communication is a poor form of communication, we learn so much more by discussing things with God, by thinking about what the Bible says.

 

[Cieza]

You can assume we exist for no reason, just accidents of chemistry and have no destiny but oblivion. Or, you can assume we do exist for a reason and that means there is an intelligence behind our existing. Either way you are assuming and do not know for certain.

Likewise, if you say there is no higher intelligence behind the immediate higher intelligence, you are assuming and do not know for certain.

 

[Cieza]

Stuart, you have views vexed in carnality. Why do you think it is important to walk on water? It's not. What is important is to preach the gospel and baptize converts. This is happening in multitudes daily more than Jesus could have achieved in one physical body, because His bride is doing the work and He is Lord over all of it.

Why is it important to preach the gospel and baptize converts? What do you hope to accomplish by doing that and how does it benefit you?

I prayed for many things in my lifetime with no result.

Why do you suppose that is? Did you ever ask God why He decided to withhold that which you desired? Does the mother give a lollie to the child at each request? Why not?

If God were to respond to such a question, would his response be sent audibly? If God did respond, how would one who is listening know it was God?

They are true, you just can't see it. “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

What evidence do you have that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

 

[Cieza]

1) The Bible doesn't contain a FAQ

It's not strictly necessary, evidently.

If you're trying to sell your product or idea to someone who will only be interested if there is a FAQ, then it is necessary. And it is a turnoff to me that it doesn't contain a FAQ

3) There are many stories in the Bible that defy the laws of the physical world

Yep, that is how powerful God is.

OK, so God is only powerful enough to allow stories to appear in the Bible. Does his power extend beyond that? If so, what evidence do you have?

4) There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole

"Very difficult" - not "impossible", seems to me you might be afraid to try.

I meant to say
There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult to determine if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole. That leads to the question of why isn't there a Bible which identifies which portions should be taken literally and which portions as hyperbole?

5) The Bible doesn't explain where God came from

Actually it does.
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. 5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend[a] it.

That does nothing to explain where God came from. If I wrote a book and introduced a character without explaining where he came from or anything else about his history, wouldn't you be wanting to know?

7) There is no glossary of terms in the Bible

No there's not, but the words are very specifically chosen to say concisely what the writer means to say. Written communication is a poor form of communication, we learn so much more by discussing things with God, by thinking about what the Bible says.

Just like the lack of a FAQ is a big turnoff to me, the lack of a glossary of terms is a big turnoff to me.

How can I discuss things with something that I cannot hear, see or get any acknowledgement that it hears me?

 

[Biblewriter]

Why can't the universe be eternal?

If it's so easy for you to accept that this "you cannot get something from nothing" traces back to something eternal and stops there, then can you provide some reason why it can't stop with the universe?

I gave the reason for this as well. The fact that there are temperature differences in the universe conclusively proves that it has not always been here. If it was eternal, that is, if it had always existed, then all fuel would have already been consumed, all hot things would have already cooled down to the universal average, and all cold things would have already warmed up to that same universal average.

Thus we see that the universe cannot be eternal. The only possible alternative is God.

 

[oi_antz]

Hi Cieza! Thanks for engaging me! I have been watching your questions and you seem to be pretty interested in knowing just why on earth these Christians can swear black and blue that Jesus is Lord and God is real. Well I want to reply to this post first and then I'll address your other question soon.

If you're trying to sell your product or idea to someone who will only be interested if there is a FAQ, then it is necessary. And it is a turnoff to me that it doesn't contain a FAQ

This is the problem you have: you are putting conditions on God. I'm not saying that you can't reason with God but I'm saying you just sound a bit too big for your boots, wouldn't you agree?

OK, so God is only powerful enough to allow stories to appear in the Bible. Does his power extend beyond that? If so, what evidence do you have?

Nothing is too hard for God, He created the universe and life - I am crying out loud here!

There are many sections of the Bible that are very difficult to determine if they are meant to be taken literally or just as hyperbole. That leads to the question of why isn't there a Bible which identifies which portions should be taken literally and which portions as hyperbole?

I think we need to read what the intended context of the writer is saying.

That does nothing to explain where God came from. If I wrote a book and introduced a character without explaining where he came from or anything else about his history, wouldn't you be wanting to know?

Yes, well the wonderful thing to know is that time and energy are concepts that God has created. It is hard for a creature who lives in time to know what it is like to not have a beginning or an end. We just can't conceive it, the brain isn't built to comprehend that sort of reality.

Just like the lack of a FAQ is a big turnoff to me, the lack of a glossary of terms is a big turnoff to me.

Keep looking, it is possible someone could have made one already

How can I discuss things with something that I cannot hear, see or get any acknowledgement that it hears me?

That is your own fault. You decided to stop listening to God the moment you rejected what He told you. What is your grudge against the bible? "If you look with lust you're an adulterer? homosexuals don't enter heaven?" That's just a stab in the dark of course, but fact is that God doesn't lie, He only tells the truth. Truth isn't always convenient but at least it's correct. I can point you in the right direction but it will be up to you to ask God to help you with your own sin. Here, read this verse with me:

21 Those who accept my commandments and obey them are the ones who love me. And because they love me, my Father will love them. And I will love them and reveal myself to each of them.”

This is the crux for you my friend. If you truly love Jesus then you will want to obey Him, and you will delight to obey Him. It might not be your time right now, but eventually if you are destined to belong to Jesus then you will be sick of suppressing the truth. That is when this verse will be your life saver - remember "those who love Jesus are the ones who will obey Him".

Whether you can realize it or not, I have to tell you plain to your face that God actually is real and He's made it pretty clear how you can get to know Him. It requires that you willingly choose to trust and obey Him and no matter what you argue to try and change the deal, that's all it boils down to.

I certainly hope this inspires you to prod further into the matter, at least to see how much effort it will take to repent, and don't be shy to ask me a hard question!

Here's a nice verse and a hymn to wash it down, I encourage you to really ponder the words in this song, so true, nothing but true. Jesus really is the good shepherd.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

‪Trust and Obey, Sierra Hull‬‏ - YouTube

When we walk with the Lord in the light of His Word,
What a glory He sheds on our way!
While we do His good will, He abides with us still,
And with all who will trust and obey.

Refrain:
Trust and obey, for there’s no other way
To be happy in Jesus, but to trust and obey.

Not a shadow can rise, not a cloud in the skies,
But His smile quickly drives it away;
Not a doubt or a fear, not a sigh or a tear,
Can abide while we trust and obey.

Then in fellowship sweet we will sit at His feet,
Or we’ll walk by His side in the way;
What He says we will do, where He sends we will go;
Never fear, only trust and obey.

 

[oi_antz]

Why is it important to preach the gospel and baptize converts? What do you hope to accomplish by doing that

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Read it carefully now:

"Whoever believes (yes/no) and is baptized (yes/no) will be saved (yes/no)."

- So baptism is the seal of your faith, you will be saved.

"Whoever does not believe (yes/no) will be condemned."

and how does it benefit you?

Only the joy to know I have another friend in eternity.

If God were to respond to such a question, would his response be sent audibly?

Who can say except God Himself. I have only once heard what I believed to be an angel telling me to get out of bed and it sounded like he was standing right beside my bed. I would have slept through an appointment if it wasn't for that. All other communication with God has been in my thoughts, the inner dialogue where I commune with God, that is the "holy of holies" when I consider my body to be the temple of God.

If God did respond

- As in, answering a prayer?

, how would one who is listening know it was God?

If you know Jesus you will recognize a counterfeit. But never fear! If you put your trust in Him He is faithful and just. Jesus has all authority on heaven and earth.

What evidence do you have that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

It seems true according to my observations.

 

[Cieza]

I gave the reason for this as well. The fact that there are temperature differences in the universe conclusively proves that it has not always been here. If it was eternal, that is, if it had always existed, then all fuel would have already been consumed, all hot things would have already cooled down to the universal average, and all cold things would have already warmed up to that same universal average.

Thus we see that the universe cannot be eternal. The only possible alternative is God.

Do you have an independent unbiased source that can back up your temperature differences theory?

 

[Cieza]

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Read it carefully now:

"Whoever believes (yes/no) and is baptized (yes/no) will be saved (yes/no)."

- So baptism is the seal of your faith, you will be saved.

"Whoever does not believe (yes/no) will be condemned."

What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?
What does it mean to be "saved"?
What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?
What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?
What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?

and how does it benefit you?

Only the joy to know I have another friend in eternity.

What do you mean by "eternity"?
What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?
What do you mean by "another friend"?
If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?

If God were to respond to such a question, would his response be sent audibly?

Who can say except God Himself. I have only once heard what I believed to be an angel telling me to get out of bed and it sounded like he was standing right beside my bed. I would have slept through an appointment if it wasn't for that. All other communication with God has been in my thoughts, the inner dialogue where I commune with God, that is the "holy of holies" when I consider my body to be the temple of God.

If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?
How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?
If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?

If God did respond

- As in, answering a prayer?

I mean how ever God communicates.
Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?

how would one who is listening know it was God?

If you know Jesus you will recognize a counterfeit. But never fear! If you put your trust in Him He is faithful and just. Jesus has all authority on heaven and earth.

If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?
If not, what is the physiological difference between the Christian & the atheist such that the noise sounds different?
If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?

What evidence do you have that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

It seems true according to my observations.

What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

 

[oi_antz]

Hi Cieza, this is almost an overwhelming response! There are a lot of questions here and I know you don't want to be pointed to the bible. Whats more is I know that your impression of God and Jesus and faith itself probably can go up or down from here depending how these questions are answered. So I will be brutally honest with you, as gentle as I can, and I hope that my presentation of the gospel will have a positive impact on your attitude toward God. I say this up front because I want you to know that if one person ever hated God because of what I said, Jesus says it would be better for a millstone to be tied around my neck and cast into the ocean. Jesus said that and I believe it. So please be patient with me and maybe if God agree's then together we can help you understand God's love.

What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?

Because that future time has not happened yet, we only have Jesus' word for evidence, so it is to be taken on the grounds of faith. That is what John 3:16 means "whoever believes in Him will not perish but will have everlasting life". It's not so hard, most people who love life actually desire deep within for this to be true.

What does it mean to be "saved"?

One day when everything that has to happen first has happened, then Jesus will come back from heaven to earth and the dead who belong to Him will be resurrected and the living who belong to Him will be given immortal bodies. Then the books will be read, those who are condemned will receive judgment, then the earth will be rolled up like carpet and thrown in the lake of fire and there will be a new earth with Jesus and all His people and no more devil to tempt us. It will be a perfect and holy world where there is no more evil.

What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?

EVERYTHING GOD TELLS YOU.

What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?

I don't know the answer to that, because God says "vengeance is mine", but it does involve unpleasant experience and eventual death into everlasting unconsciousness.

What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?

It is what Jesus said and He was just as honest when He spoke as any other of God's prophets have been. Therefore, it is what God is telling us by speaking to us through His prophets.

What do you mean by "eternity"?

Timelessness. No beginning and no end and nothing in between, that mysterious everlasting "now".

What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?

Sometimes I can see the spirit of Christ in those who belong to Him, sometimes I just see their eternal soul is at peace in His salvation. Our eternal life definitely begins when we are "born again".

What do you mean by "another friend"?

Well, just someone I can be nice to and who will be nice to me too

If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?

I don't believe that our consciousness survives death, only by resurrection will we live after we have died.

If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?

I don't know.

How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?

It appeared to my brain as an audible voice that came through my ears and had the pattern of a physical man standing beside my bed complete with the room's reverb.

If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?

Tough question. There is always a struggle for dominance when we speak to God. Our own flesh battles against us. There is a verse in scripture that says "be still and know that I am God", I think this is describing meditation.

I mean how ever God communicates.

I don't understand what you mean.

Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?

Well that is a good question, and one I have recently discovered how to understand by contemplating the story of Adam and Eve in the garden of Eden. It is all about trust. Who do we trust. If you remember the story, God left Adam and Eve unattended in the garden while the serpent approached them and presented a lie. So what did they do? They trusted the stranger instead of trusting God. So I think this world is like the garden where we are placed and presented with the opportunity to trust what God says or what someone else says, and this is apparently God's way of knowing who can be trusted to live forever that they won't betray Him when given the opportunity. It's about trust and loyalty.

If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?

I think two people listening to audible data will hear the same thing regardless of their belief. What they think about it might be quite different though.

If not, what is the physiological difference between the Christian & the atheist such that the noise sounds different?

Nothing.

If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?

Everybody interprets every piece of data differently because we each have unique memory data and perception.

What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

When I read those words my brain tells me it is true. I don't know how to explain this to you, you either see it as being true or you don't.

I certainly hope this shows you that God is good. Even if it doesn't satisfy your every question, I certainly hope I have not failed to provide what you require of me. Please let me know if there is anything else I can say to help you with your endeavor

 

[Nanopants]

What evidence do you have that one who believes and is baptized will be saved?
What does it mean to be "saved"?
What exactly must one believe in order to be saved?
What exactly does it mean to be "condemned"?
What evidence do you have that one who does not believe will be condemned?


What do you mean by "eternity"?
What sort of evidence do you have that you have "another friend" in eternity?
What do you mean by "another friend"?
If eternity equates to after you die, what evidence do you have that a human can have a sense of consciousness after death to even be aware of this friend?


If you had recorded the angel telling you to get out of bed and played it back to a person of the secular world, would the secular person hear an audible voice?
How can you know that this "voice" you heard which you say was an angel wasn't merely a coincidence?
If your communication with God is in your inner dialogue or thoughts, how can you know he's communicating back?


I mean how ever God communicates.
Why doesn't God use a universally or objectively measurable method to communicate with humans?


If you were to record God speaking and were to then play it back to an atheist, would the atheist hear the same sounds you heard?
If not, what is the physiological difference between the Christian & the atheist such that the noise sounds different?
If yes, would the atheist and Christian interpret the sound to mean two different things?


What observations have you made that support your contention that the scriptures in the book of John are true?

Why do you ask one person so many questions?

 

[oi_antz]

Why do you ask one person so many questions?

I struck a raw nerve in my last post, I was so relieved that he forgave me and reopened the line of communication. Must be wary of this in future - foot in mouth again

 

[Biblewriter]

Do you have an independent unbiased source that can back up your temperature differences theory?

HUH?????

Do you want proof that the sun is hotter than the earth? You want "independent, unbiased proof" that this is true? Sometimes people say "what planet are you from?" but this calls for the question, "what universe are you from?"

I just had a cup of coffee and a glass of ice water with my breakfast this morning. The coffee was unquestionably hotter than the ice water. If you do not believe this, take a thermometer and go into any restaurant and measure for yourself!!!!

Hot things get cooler and cold things get hotter. This simple fact of life that everyone knows is all the proof that is needed. This is not a "theory." It is an immutable fact of life that even a very small child knows.

 

[Cieza]

Why do you ask one person so many questions?

Would you like me to start a thread with all these questions in it so anyone can answer?