some questions I have

[ScottishJohn]

Okay, my religion makes claims too. Are those claims just as valid as what Jesus says?[/b]

I can't decide that for you. I myself don't believe so, but that is neither here nor there.

If they would leave me alone, I wouldn't care. As long as Christians try to change my beliefs, I will discuss it with them.

OK I accept that. At the end of the day though it is still your choice.

Some do disagree. They don't believe in us non-Christians having freedom of religion.

Well their God does!

Think of it this way. How often do you ask God to confirm for you that the New Testament is true? Do you feel that God will forget to keep you as a Christian if you don't continualy ask Him to?

There are things I pray often about, because God is slow in giving me what I want.

Well I accepted that the New Testament was true when I became a Christian. Since then it has continued to surprise me with teaching that is continualy full of wisdom and assistance for living my life. To answer the second part of your question, if I don't pray regularly and commit my decisions to God regularly then I begin to live the way I want as opposed to the way God wants.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I know this is a question for Christians to reply to, but I wanted to say something

Go right ahead. Everyone is welcome here.

May God continue to guide and shower you with blessings on your path to him.
Aum tat sat.

Thank you very much. The same to you.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I can't decide that for you.

Okay, thank you.

 

[Saraswati-Devi]

Go right ahead. Everyone is welcome here.

Thank you very much. The same to you.

Follow your heart... That's where we should let God reside, his own Temple within us. Shucks, he created the body, why not

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Christians keep telling me that my religion is false, and that I should give it up and follow Jesus instead. How do I go about finding out for certain what God wants me to believe?

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with what you currently believe. It may very well be in alignment with Christian spirit in part or whole and may simply need cultivating/growth to be considered "Christian". I think the first step in me contributing in this would be to understand what you currently believe and why. I can't very well agree or disagree that you should change anything without first learning that.
That is the "where you are now", the suggested "where you should be" would not be what someone says, but what is foundational of the proposed "what should be". That would be what you or we could examine together.

That is, if you wish to go further.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Christians are constantly walking up to me on the street, or knocking on my door, and telling me that I must give up my religion. Yet when I ask them to prove to my complete satisfaction that God agrees with them, they have no answers. I'm here at CF to keep asking.

Also, no Christian will ever be able to say I did not give them their opportunity to convert me.

Um, that's not how it works. We may have to address this in smaller pieces, later if you wish.

 

[ChristianCenturion]

I belong to the Baha'i Faith.

I can't guarantee my methods were scientific, but I got answers to all my questions, after seven years of study.

So far no Christian has been willing to answer my questions for seven years and show me why I should give up my religion.

I've read the Bible. Also Christian apologetics, to see what Christians believe and why, and books on cults, to see how Christians say I should discern what is false. I have also read some essays and went to a lecture specifically against the Baha'i Faith.

I've looked at both sides, and the evidence seems to point in a particular direction. What I can't figure out is why Christians keep telling me that they are right and years of study has misled me.

Edit to add:

OK, I've reviewed the site http://www.bahai.org/faq

and familiarized myself with the Baha'i Faith. Since it is a compilation of many various religions, there is not much distinguishable difference between that and other religions until the details are examined. Given the youthfulness of the religion, I would call it a cult; but by the same token, it is over a hundred years old and large. Please don't be dismayed by the use of the word cult - by general definition, any religion is a cult. It is still a boastful claim that it is the correct religion while at the same time declaring without proven authority that the other religious beliefs (such as Jewish, Christian, Muslim, etc.) are a part of its beliefs. One could easily examine another religion or several religions and piece-meal favored parts into a new religion and make claim that it is correct. It also seems to use the tools we are given i.e. science, government, general philosophy, etc. and make it as though it is part of the whole rather than simply tools, gifts and findings.

Superficially speaking, I can see where it has popular appeal and value (based on the taking of other religious teachings and favored secular concepts of course), but the predictive claims regarding the purpose I see will only be ultimately disappointed. You see, where it forecasts that its religious tenet is for man to develop to some sort of better condition spiritual or otherwise, this would be contradictory to Christian belief in that yes, there will be a united world, but it will be a counterfeit of what God intends driven by deception and in the Last Days and will eventually meet Judgment before true peace. Whereas it shares similar values in sexual purity, the examples and prophesy shown in Christian teaching reflect that those values will be in conflict with the world and immorality will be even more abundantly practiced; though, given the nature espoused with evolving and contemporary customization held by your religion, I would predict that adaptation and acceptance would most likely be done in order to preserve the popularity rather than holding the conflicting convictions.

I would rather not go further with a critical review until you raise some more specific questions or direction that I may be able to help in answering.

Given that your religion prevents proselytizing, I take it that you didn't initiate this to persuade me or want me to continue and address any errors or conflicts held in your religion that may come into view.
So, what next? What specific questions do you have concerning Christian faith?

 

[lunamoth]

Hi I are Skeptical, I think perhaps we met at another forum where you use a similar handle? Anyway, I am a former Baha'i, returned to Christianity. I think ScottishJohn has given you some good answers. As for myself, I think that if you are very happy and comfortable with all of the teachings of the Baha'i Faith then you should remain a Baha'i.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I suppose I will have to familiarize myself with your religion. It may take me a little while to get back

Okay.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

I think perhaps we met at another forum where you use a similar handle?

Probably not. I have registered at a couple of other forums with the same name but I don't remember ever posting there.

I think that if you are very happy and comfortable with all of the teachings of the Baha'i Faith then you should remain a Baha'i.

Okay, thank you.

Welcome to Christian Forums.

 

[Zaac]

Probably not. I have registered at a couple of other forums with the same name but I don't remember ever posting there.

Okay, thank you.

Welcome to Christian Forums.

Hey there Ias. Pleasure to make your aquaintance. Let me say this to you. Your comfort and happiness has NOTHING to do with salvation. You can be comfortable and happy in your belief of a lie and still very uncomfortably go to hell.

The Baha'i Faith may be a combination of many different religions, but unless it is based in its totality on the Word of God that is Jesus Christ, it is based in lies.

To start off, what evidence can Christians provide that God wants me to be a Christian instead of belonging to a different religion?

None. Christians are not tasked by God to convince you that He wants you to be a Christian. But He tells us in His Word 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.2 Peter 3:9

If that is your primary concern for the Christian faith, I'll say this to you. If you truly desire Jesus, pursue Him. That doesn't mean that you go into your study of His Word with the express intent of finding some reason to confirm what you have always thought. But that you go into it with your heart open to receiving the TRUTH and not what you have been told or taught.

No man can ever prove to your complete satisfaction that He is the TRUTH. Why? Because for a man to do so, he would have to give you physical proof. And physical proof is NOT going to save you.

If you want proof, take all of your skepticism and place it in Jesus and see how He answers. Are you willing to risk your eternal soul based on a lack of proof that you cannot have because of your flesh not being able to understand that which is right in front of it?

 

[I_are_sceptical]

No man can ever prove to your complete satisfaction that He is the TRUTH.

Do you think it is sensible for me to make a decision that will affect my relationship with God for the rest of eternity if I don't really know if it's the right decision?

Why? Because for a man to do so, he would have to give you physical proof.

I disagree. All it will take to convince me is for a Christian to answer my questions. Want to give it a try?

If you want proof, take all of your skepticism and place it in Jesus and see how He answers.

I did, twenty-nine years ago. I found all the proof I needed. But it pointed me in the direction of a non-Christian religion.

Why, I would like to know, do Christians tell me I should only accept evidence that supports their view, instead of accepting the evidence God sent me?

 

[Zaac]

Do you think it is sensible for me to make a decision that will affect my relationship with God for the rest of eternity if I don't really know if it's the right decision?

I don't think it sensible that you would want to worship a God that's so small that you could understand him by some work of your own mind and sensibilities.

I disagree. All it will take to convince me is for a Christian to answer my questions. Want to give it a try?

What's your question?

I did, twenty-nine years ago. I found all the proof I needed. But it pointed me in the direction of a non-Christian religion.

I you're not following Jesus right now, you asked and received guidance from someone, but not Jesus. Jesus draws men unto Himself. He doesn't push them away.

As was said, Jesus knows your heart. he knows whether or not you are seeking truth, or if you're just looking for somebody to prove Him to you. And the latter cannot be done.

we can give you our testimonies as to what Christ has done in our lives. But there is NOTHING that we can do other than direct you to the truth that is Him.That very truth is embodied in His Word.

Wrestle with that Word and pursue Christ with your spirit and not with your fleshly mind.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

What's your question?



you asked and received guidance from someone, but not Jesus.

If I ask God to guide me concerning which religion I should belong to,
and over years of study of both sides of the issue,
find evidence that thoroughly convinces me what my choice should be,
but the guidance disagrees with your beliefs,
are you telling me I should reject God's guidance, the guidance I prayed for,
and follow your personal opinions instead?

 

[Zaac]

If I ask God to guide me concerning which religion I should belong to,
and over years of study of both sides of the issue,
find evidence that thoroughly convinces me what my choice should be,
but the guidance disagrees with your beliefs,
are you telling me I should reject God's guidance, the guidance I prayed for,
and follow your personal opinions instead?

I'm telling you that Jesus Christ is not concerned with getting you to follow a religion, but to follow HIM. And so if after years of study, you have convinced yourself that you are to follow something other than Christ, then you're still following lies.

If after several years of study, YOU decided that you wanted to follow Christianity, then you would STILL be following a lie much like the Pharisees.

Jesus Christ wants you to follow HIM. And you can only follow Him by allowing HIM to change who you are and making you a new creature in Him. Neither your studies nor anything else that you do can make you a Christian.

You MUST be born again in order to have the answers that you seek. And thus I say again, NO MAN can give you the irrefutable proof for which you ask.

You're waiting for a man to do that which you never TRULY trusted in or thought Jesus Christ capable of doing. And that's why you are continuing to chase after the answers and evidence of men instead of Christ.

 

[we5frogs]

Well, there is quite a lot to say here, and as long as you are asking with a sincere desire to hear the answers, I 'm sure that many here will be happy to join you in conversation. If, however, your desire is simply to be confrontational, then I will lovingly bow out at the end of this post. If you are not at a place with God where He has softened your heart to hear what we have to say, then we can talk until we are 'blue in the face', and still be unable to reach you. I know, however, that 'through Him, all things are possible, and so in His own perfect timing, He will soften your heart to hear the Truth, and at that time all we have said will come back to you.

That is not to say that we insist that you admit that we are right, because at the end of the day, it does not matter what you say to us. What matters to us as Christian is what happens between you and Him, and only you and He will really know. He gave free will, and you can choose Him or choose something else, the decision is always yours.

As Christians, however, part of you we are is sharing the Word of God and His promises with everyone we meet. We sincerely care about you, and all others, and want to know that when the end comes, we have done all we can to bring all to Christ. Jesus commissioned us to do that in the Bible when he said, ‘All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.’ Amen” (Mt. 28:16-20).

So, let's get to some of the questions I pulled out of your posts.

Q: How do I go about finding out for certain what God wants me to believe?

A: Ask Him - and then quietly listen for His answer. Do not set your decision on what any man says, but on He who created the universe.

We can debate your scripture over our Christian Bible, which we know to be the inspired Word of God, but when He speaks to you directly, there can be no second guessing.

Q: Please present evidence that the Bible is the final answer, which would mean that the Scriptures of my faith are false teachings.

A: According to my admittedly brief glimpse into the teachings of your faith, I see that we agree that there is One True God.

Now, in the Bible, it states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was with God in the beginning."

and then

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. "

There were many great prophets He used throughout the Bible, but clearly He has introduced Jesus, not as a prophet or messenger, but as God Himself among us.

Also, as has been pointed out, the Bible states that 'the only way to the Father is through me."

So, putting this all together, any teaching that Jesus is simply one of a great many messengers, and that the Father can be attained through any of them, is simply a lie.

Which leads us to:

Q: The guidance I received as a result of that prayer led directly to the non-Christian religion I currently belong to.

Christians have said to me that God's guidance would lead only to Christianity. My experience is different. What are your thoughts about what happened?

A: In the Bible, Satan tempted even Jesus, by corrupting the Word of God to try to use it to suit his purposes. Jesus resisted all temptation by using the Word in response. So you see, for us, any rational argument used to explain our faith comes from the Bible.

Some other tools that Satan uses are to corrupt the definition of the Kingdom and make it as worldly and this-life centered as he can. He does not want us center on the Truth, because under the Truth he cannot win. So he tries to get us to believe passages are subject to multiple simultaneous varying interpretations. "Who is to say what or who is right" is the voice of rebellion. God will always show a seeker the proper perspective if he seeks the truth at all costs. (some words by Brian M. Schwertley, who said it better than I ever could have)

If the adversary can get folks to believe his lies, his work is easy, and they are lost to the Master unless they choose to rebuke him.

I hope that some of this answers the questions that you have. Now talk with the Father, and then make your decision from His leading.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

You MUST be born again in order to have the answers that you seek.

Are you saying I should become a Christian WITHOUT knowing for certain that it is what God wants me to believe? Would you join MY religion under a condition like that?

You didn't answer my earlier question. Should I follow God's guidance or your personal opinions?

 

[Zaac]

Are you saying I should become a Christian WITHOUT knowing for certain that it is what God wants me to believe?

You keep asking that question as though you get to decide whether or not you become a Christian. You do not.

Would you join MY religion under a condition like that?

I've got Jesus. I don't need religion.

You didn't answer my earlier question. Should I follow God's guidance or your personal opinions?[/

You haven't heard me give you my opinions. You've heard me tell you what the one true God of creation KNOWS. Now you continue to say that God's guidance has led you to your decision to follow something other than the truth of His Word. And I'm telling you , if a god told you that, it's a fasle god indeed.

You went out pursuing a god that you could get your mind around and that's what you got. It's a lie, but it's a lie that makes you feel good that YOU got an undestanding under your own power.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

as long as you are asking with a sincere desire to hear the answers, I 'm sure that many here will be happy to join you in conversation. If, however, your desire is simply to be confrontational, then I will lovingly bow out at the end of this post. If you are not at a place with God where He has softened your heart to hear what we have to say

If by this you mean I should blindly accept whatever Christians tell me, why should I do that? What if the Christians are wrong?

He will soften your heart to hear the Truth, and at that time all we have said will come back to you.

1. This assumes the religion I belong to is not a new Revelation from God. How do I know such an assumption is correct?

2. In nearly twenty-nine years not one Christian has shown me the slightest evidence that God wants me to give up the religion I currently belong to. If God wants me to follow Jesus instead of Someone else, why is it taking God so long to help any of you to answer my questions?

Q: How do I go about finding out for certain what God wants me to believe?

A: Ask Him - and then quietly listen for His answer. Do not set your decision on what any man says, but on He who created the universe.

Okay. If I ask God for guidance, and I get guidance, and Christians tell me something different, who should I believe? God or the Christians?

Q: Please present evidence that the Bible is the final answer, which would mean that the Scriptures of my faith are false teachings.

A: According to my admittedly brief glimpse into the teachings of your faith, I see that we agree that there is One True God.

Now, in the Bible, it states, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.He was with God in the beginning."

and then

"The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth. "

There were many great prophets He used throughout the Bible, but clearly He has introduced Jesus, not as a prophet or messenger, but as God Himself among us.

Also, as has been pointed out, the Bible states that 'the only way to the Father is through me."

So, putting this all together, any teaching that Jesus is simply one of a great many messengers, and that the Father can be attained through any of them, is simply a lie.

1. My religion says something different. Therefore, how do I know I should follow the Bible if it disagrees with other Scripture? Can you provide evidence that God agrees with you that the doctrines of my religion are "simply a lie" instead of His Word?

2. Okay, you quoted the Bible. Now quote my Scripture to present the other side of the issue. I looked at both sides. That's why I believe what I do.Christians tell me to simply ignore any point of vie other than their own. Is this a sincere way to search for God's Truth?

Q: The guidance I received as a result of that prayer led directly to the non-Christian religion I currently belong to.

Christians have said to me that God's guidance would lead only to Christianity. My experience is different. What are your thoughts about what happened?

A: In the Bible, Satan tempted even Jesus, by corrupting the Word of God to try to use it to suit his purposes. Jesus resisted all temptation by using the Word in response. So you see, for us, any rational argument used to explain our faith comes from the Bible.

Some other tools that Satan uses are to corrupt the definition of the Kingdom and make it as worldly and this-life centered as he can. He does not want us center on the Truth, because under the Truth he cannot win. So he tries to get us to believe passages are subject to multiple simultaneous varying interpretations. "Who is to say what or who is right" is the voice of rebellion. God will always show a seeker the proper perspective if he seeks the truth at all costs. (some words by Brian M. Schwertley, who said it better than I ever could have)

If the adversary can get folks to believe his lies, his work is easy, and they are lost to the Master unless they choose to rebuke him.

In Matthew 12:24 Jesus is accused of healing by the power of Beelzebub. Were His accusers right or wrong?

I hope that some of this answers the questions that you have.

As you can see, I have some follow-up questions. I hope you will try to answer them.

 

[I_are_sceptical]

Now you continue to say that God's guidance has led you to your decision to follow something other than the truth of His Word. And I'm telling you , if a god told you that, it's a fasle god indeed.

Okay, I asked God for guidance and instead was led astray by a false god. How, may I ask, did that happen? Did God try to show me I should follow Jesus but He was weaker than the false god and His guidance got shoved aside? Or does God not care if I spend eternity in Hell and He ignored my prayer for guidance? Or is there another possibility?