Some questions I have about the universe...?

[Neogaia777]

Because twentieth century physics was so far out (for want of a better expression), it seems to me that physicists have now forgotten how to draw the line under zaniness.

It does make a lot of what they thought they knew, go right out the window, doesn't it...?

God Bless!

 

[lesliedellow]

It does make a lot of what they thought they knew, go right out the window, doesn't it...?

God Bless!

I'm not sure what you have in mind. Are you thinking of Newtonian Mechanics being superseded by Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm not sure what you have in mind. Are you thinking of Newtonian Mechanics being superseded by Relativity and Quantum Mechanics?

Well, they did seem to need two different sets of rules or laws...

God Bless!

 

[lesliedellow]

Well, they did seem to need two different sets of rules or laws...

God Bless!

Physicists, perhaps more than most scientists, are aware that they are only building models of reality. Newtonian Mechanics worked well, and still does work well in most circumstances. But then Electromagnetism came along, and it was difficult to fit the constant speed of light into a Newtonian framework, so Relativity was needed. Sometime later, it was realised that electromagnetism, along with conservation of energy, implied that atoms ought to be unstable, so there was something wrong there, and Quantum Mechanics was needed.

Now we have two theories - Quantum Mechanics and Relativity - which work well enough separately, but are incompatible when put together. So a new model is needed.

 

[Neogaia777]

Physicists are perhaps more aware than most scientists that they are only building models of the universe. Newtonian Mechanics worked well, and still does work well, in most circumstances. But then Electromagnetism came along, and it was difficult to fit the constant speed of light into a Newtonian framework, so Relativity was needed. Sometime later, it was realised that electromagnetism, along with conservation of energy, implied that atoms ought to be unstable, so there was something wrong there, and Quantum Mechanics was needed.

Now we have two theories - Quantum Mechanics and Relativity - which work well enough separately, but are incompatible when put together. So a new model is needed.

Like a unified field theory or something like that...?

Peace,

God Bless!

 

[lesliedellow]

Like a unified field theory or something like that...?

Peace,

God Bless!

Physicists' priority at the moment is probably a quantum theory of gravity. That may produce a unified field theory at the same time, or it may not.

 

[Radrook]

The important thing is how do we liberate ourselves by smashing through that annoying dome! They tried atomic bombs already and that didn't work. Maybe if they just tried drilling? Probe for weak spots along its Antarctic rim.

 

[Neogaia777]

Re-posting...

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me get this straight, there was an explosion (that came from nothing, anyway...) There was an/this explosion of matter/material/energy from a single center point (of origin) in/of the universe that would be the center of the universe, that everything would be expanding from away from, (in way as would happen as an explosion), if the universe is truly accelerating in that expansion, (and I think it is, but we'll get to that later) approximately 13-14 billion years ago, right...?

The numbers are astounding... The observable universe now, let alone the "entire universe"... There are trillions, or is it hundreds of trillions, I can't remember...? Anyway, at least multiple trillions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars and star systems, and God knows how many planets in what is now the observable universe to us and they've hit a limit, it's as far as we can see with our technology and technological level right now for some reason, the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years around us, still no definable center...

The fact is is that the universe is really not behaving like it originated or is or has originated from a single center point explosion, and it is beginning to look less and less like that, but there is no current explanation for it so, nothing has changed (yet)... The universe "is expanding and seems to be speeding up", but, like I said, it is expanding or appears to be expanding but not like it originated from one single center point of origin... In fact it may be expanding and accelerating in direct counter-force, or in direct proportion to, the force that would cause it all collapse in on itself, and the universe could be perpetual, or nearly perpetual, due to this balance...

Then there is the "vantage point" issue... There is no way to know where the center of the universe, nor even if it even has a center, because from anywhere you are in it, even if it did all come from one single point of origin, and it (the universe) is expanding outward from that, and it is accelerating, if you were a a particle in the in the middle of a wave of particles being exploded from it (the center) (that one single point of origin "only 13-14 billion years old") (get to that in a bit)...

From where you were as the particle, you are in motion with the explosion, and if you were to examine your surroundings, from anywhere you were in the universe, looking at the other particles around you, it would seem that they are all proceeding at equidistant speeds in all directions proportional, all outward and away from you and it always seems as if you are the center, so how do you know if your in the center..? You can't... How do you detect or locate or somehow determine or measure the center...? You can't...

From any vantage point, even if you were truly in the center, it would be just like being anywhere else in it (the universe), so how would you know the difference...? And then like I said, it doesn't seem to be accelerating and expanding outward "FROM A SINGLE POINT OF ORIGIN", yet, and I don't know that it ever will...

Anyway, Then there is the age issue...? If the universe is only 13-14 billion years old, how come we can see 46.5 billion light years away from us in all directions, it would be 46.5 billion years old or from 46.5 billion years ago...? Then, How did all that matter and material get that far away from us if the universe is only 13-14 billion years old...? And that is only the observable universe, many theorize that the there much more, maybe very much more, maybe spanning for trillions light years... But it's all only 13-14 billion years old...? Doesn't make sense at all...?

It would have had to have been traveling or all moving a multiple times the speed of light, and we know it is accelerating and expanding, but not that fast, not by a long shot, so how's that work...? And it's supposed to be moving even faster than that due to accelerating...? What??? How's that work...? Matter cannot travel past the speed of light, let alone multiple times it, it doesn't make sense...?

I think the universe is older, maybe even much older, or very much more older, possibly than we ever thought it was, or maybe even perhaps we ever imagined it to be, and I don't know about it's coming from a single center point of origin, but that's just me...

Then let's not even get into gravitation, time, dimension and how that all comes to play with all of this...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Re-posting...

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me get this straight, there was an explosion (that came from nothing, anyway...) There was an/this explosion of matter/material/energy from a single center point (of origin) in/of the universe that would be the center of the universe, that everything would be expanding from away from, (in way as would happen as an explosion), if the universe is truly accelerating in that expansion, (and I think it is, but we'll get to that later) approximately 13-14 billion years ago, right...?

The numbers are astounding... The observable universe now, let alone the "entire universe"... There are trillions, or is it hundreds of trillions, I can't remember...? Anyway, at least multiple trillions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars and star systems, and God knows how many planets in what is now the observable universe to us and they've hit a limit, it's as far as we can see with our technology and technological level right now for some reason, the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years around us, still no definable center...

The fact is is that the universe is really not behaving like it originated or is or has originated from a single center point explosion, and it is beginning to look less and less like that, but there is no current explanation for it so, nothing has changed (yet)... The universe "is expanding and seems to be speeding up", but, like I said, it is expanding or appears to be expanding but not like it originated from one single center point of origin... In fact it may be expanding and accelerating in direct counter-force, or in direct proportion to, the force that would cause it all collapse in on itself, and the universe could be perpetual, or nearly perpetual, due to this balance...

Then there is the "vantage point" issue... There is no way to know where the center of the universe, nor even if it even has a center, because from anywhere you are in it, even if it did all come from one single point of origin, and it (the universe) is expanding outward from that, and it is accelerating, if you were a a particle in the in the middle of a wave of particles being exploded from it (the center) (that one single point of origin "only 13-14 billion years old") (get to that in a bit)...

From where you were as the particle, you are in motion with the explosion, and if you were to examine your surroundings, from anywhere you were in the universe, looking at the other particles around you, it would seem that they are all proceeding at equidistant speeds in all directions proportional, all outward and away from you and it always seems as if you are the center, so how do you know if your in the center..? You can't... How do you detect or locate or somehow determine or measure the center...? You can't...

From any vantage point, even if you were truly in the center, it would be just like being anywhere else in it (the universe), so how would you know the difference...? And then like I said, it doesn't seem to be accelerating and expanding outward "FROM A SINGLE POINT OF ORIGIN", yet, and I don't know that it ever will...

Anyway, Then there is the age issue...? If the universe is only 13-14 billion years old, how come we can see 46.5 billion light years away from us in all directions, it would be 46.5 billion years old or from 46.5 billion years ago...? Then, How did all that matter and material get that far away from us if the universe is only 13-14 billion years old...? And that is only the observable universe, many theorize that the there much more, maybe very much more, maybe spanning for trillions light years... But it's all only 13-14 billion years old...? Doesn't make sense at all...?

It would have had to have been traveling or all moving a multiple times the speed of light, and we know it is accelerating and expanding, but not that fast, not by a long shot, so how's that work...? And it's supposed to be moving even faster than that due to accelerating...? What??? How's that work...? Matter cannot travel past the speed of light, let alone multiple times it, it doesn't make sense...?

I think the universe is older, maybe even much older, or very much more older, possibly than we ever thought it was, or maybe even perhaps we ever imagined it to be, and I don't know about it's coming from a single center point of origin, but that's just me...

Then let's not even get into gravitation, time, dimension and how that all comes to play with all of this...

God Bless!

So, and in considering what is probably the true age of the universe, and also the sheer vastness of it, and the "numbers" in that...?

I conclude that were not the only ones... And we were not always the only ones before this, and we will not always be the only ones after this...

What did the ones before us do...? How far did they get or go...? What happened to and with them...? Where did they go...? And where are they now...?

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

Anyone...?

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I wonder if someone would humor me and answer some questions I have about the universe...?

How much space is there between galaxies? Are they far apart like star systems are in galaxies, or not so much?

Are the images our telescopes see of distant astronomical phenomena, that are light years away, as old as the distance in their being light years away is...? Like a star 4 light years away... Is what were seeing of it 4 years old...? Are seeing other galaxies this way, if they are...

What is the relation and distance and motion to time...?

Is the universe really expanding, like an explosion is or does, and will it slow down and fizzle out like and explosion does, in time...

Or will or does, what effect does gravity and gravitational pull have on the expansion or motion of stars/galaxies, what effect does gravity and gravitational pull of everything have on the expansion and motion of the universe...?

If someone could help me with this/these, I would greatly appreciate it,

Much thanks in advance.

Comments...?

God Bless!

Depends if you want to think outside the box and accept the evidence for where it leads, or follow the rest of the sheep.....

https://vdocuments.mx/revolution-in-astronomy-braham-kitiari.html

 

[Neogaia777]

Let me get this straight, there was an explosion (that came from nothing, anyway...) There was an/this explosion of matter/material/energy from a single center point (of origin) in/of the universe that would be the center of the universe, that everything would be expanding from away from, (in way as would happen as an explosion), if the universe is truly accelerating in that expansion, (and I think it is, but we'll get to that later) approximately 13-14 billion years ago, right...?

The numbers are astounding... The observable universe now, let alone the "entire universe"... There are trillions, or is it hundreds of trillions, I can't remember...? Anyway, at least multiple trillions of galaxies, each containing hundreds of billions of stars and star systems, and God knows how many planets in what is now the observable universe to us and they've hit a limit, it's as far as we can see with our technology and technological level right now for some reason, the observable universe is 46.5 billion light years around us, still no definable center...

The fact is is that the universe is really not behaving like it originated or is or has originated from a single center point explosion, and it is beginning to look less and less like that, but there is no current explanation for it so, nothing has changed (yet)... The universe "is expanding and seems to be speeding up", but, like I said, it is expanding or appears to be expanding but not like it originated from one single center point of origin... In fact it may be expanding and accelerating in direct counter-force, or in direct proportion to, the force that would cause it all collapse in on itself, and the universe could be perpetual, or nearly perpetual, due to this balance...

Then there is the "vantage point" issue... There is no way to know where the center of the universe, nor even if it even has a center, because from anywhere you are in it, even if it did all come from one single point of origin, and it (the universe) is expanding outward from that, and it is accelerating, if you were a a particle in the in the middle of a wave of particles being exploded from it (the center) (that one single point of origin "only 13-14 billion years old") (get to that in a bit)...

From where you were as the particle, you are in motion with the explosion, and if you were to examine your surroundings, from anywhere you were in the universe, looking at the other particles around you, it would seem that they are all proceeding at equidistant speeds in all directions proportional, all outward and away from you and it always seems as if you are the center, so how do you know if your in the center..? You can't... How do you detect or locate or somehow determine or measure the center...? You can't...

From any vantage point, even if you were truly in the center, it would be just like being anywhere else in it (the universe), so how would you know the difference...? And then like I said, it doesn't seem to be accelerating and expanding outward "FROM A SINGLE POINT OF ORIGIN", yet, and I don't know that it ever will...

Anyway, Then there is the age issue...? If the universe is only 13-14 billion years old, how come we can see 46.5 billion light years away from us in all directions, it would be 46.5 billion years old or from 46.5 billion years ago...? Then, How did all that matter and material get that far away from us if the universe is only 13-14 billion years old...? And that is only the observable universe, many theorize that the there much more, maybe very much more, maybe spanning for trillions light years... But it's all only 13-14 billion years old...? Doesn't make sense at all...?

It would have had to have been traveling or all moving a multiple times the speed of light, and we know it is accelerating and expanding, but not that fast, not by a long shot, so how's that work...? And it's supposed to be moving even faster than that due to accelerating...? What??? How's that work...? Matter cannot travel past the speed of light, let alone multiple times it, it doesn't make sense...?

I think the universe is older, maybe even much older, or very much more older, possibly than we ever thought it was, or maybe even perhaps we ever imagined it to be, and I don't know about it's coming from a single center point of origin, but that's just me...

Then let's not even get into gravitation, time, dimension and how that all comes to play with all of this...

God Bless!

So, and in considering what is probably the true age of the universe, and also the sheer vastness of it, and the "numbers" in that...?

I conclude that were not the only ones... And we were not always the only ones before this, and we will not always be the only ones after this...

What did the ones before us do...? How far did they get or go...? What happened to and with them...? Where did they go...? And where are they now...?

God Bless!

We cannot find or determine a single origin point or center, nor edge... And if it did disperse from a single center in a kind of like an explosion, then we should be able to see some evidence of that, even if we could see just maybe a quarter of the explosion, or just 10% of it, we should see some evidence of that explosion, like being able to discern a center or edge, unless were just not seeing very much and the universe is simply larger than we maybe can imagine, or have imagined... And we, seeing 46.5 billion light years out, may only be seeing a small fraction of the universe in it's entirety...

Then try and do the math...

Then there is the fact that the earth is said to be 4.6 billion years old, and the "entire universe", (anyway), The earth is said to 4.6 billion years old, right...? And what, and how old is our star...? Cause see, I don't know if we have that right, cause it takes a certain amount of time for stars and their systems to form, how long was that...? Say it took 6 billion years (which I think It might have taken longer possibly, anyway), Say it took 6 billion years for this star and it solar system of ours to form... Then that leaves, what? 3 billion years for the universe to have expanded out to us and to have placed us where we are at, right?, for a total (age) of aprox. 13.8 billion years, right?

Not quite, if this solar system including earth is aprox. 10-11 billion years old, then what about stars and star systems that exist both before and after ours, maybe some 5-10 billion years before ours or maybe more, anyway, then how long did it take our galaxy to form so those stars could form...? Or other galaxies before or after ours...?

Then, out further, strings of hundreds of millions of galaxies and clusters of up to billions, for a total of several trillions and that is only as far as we can see 46.5 billion light years out. (which I mentioned might only be a small fraction) Those strings and clusters all seem to pushing out from some dark pockets pretty equally across the board and this is the pattern of the expansion that I was saying about it not being like an explosion or expanding maybe nor originating from a single center... Anyway, all that had to take much longer than 13.8 billion years...

Anyway, the universe has to be so very much older than we think it is, and it may be very much larger as well, and I don't know about it originating from a single center point yet either...

God Bless!

 

[Justatruthseeker]

We cannot find or determine a single origin point or center, nor edge... And if it did disperse from a single center in a kind of like an explosion, then we should be able to see some evidence of that, even if we could see just maybe a quarter of the explosion, or just 10% of it, we should see some evidence of that explosion, like being able to discern a center or edge, unless were just not seeing very much and the universe is simply larger than we maybe can imagine, or have imagined... And we, seeing 46.5 billion light years out, may only be seeing a small fraction of the universe in it's entirety...

Then try and do the math...

Then there is the fact that the earth is said to be 4.6 billion years old, and the "entire universe", (anyway), The earth is said to 4.6 billion years old, right...? And what, and how old is our star...? Cause see, I don't know if we have that right, cause it takes a certain amount of time for stars and their systems to form, how long was that...? Say it took 6 billion years (which I think It might have taken longer possibly, anyway), Say it took 6 billion years for this star and it solar system of ours to form... Then that leaves, what? 3 billion years for the universe to have expanded out to us and to have placed us where we are at, right?, for a total (age) of aprox. 13.8 billion years, right?

Not quite, if this solar system including earth is aprox. 10-11 billion years old, then what about stars and star systems that exist both before and after ours, maybe some 5-10 billion years before ours or maybe more, anyway, then how long did it take our galaxy to form so those stars could form...? Or other galaxies before or after ours...?

Then, out further, strings of hundreds of millions of galaxies and clusters of up to billions, for a total of several trillions and that is only as far as we can see 46.5 billion light years out. (which I mentioned might only be a small fraction) Those strings and clusters all seem to pushing out from some dark pockets pretty equally across the board and this is the pattern of the expansion that I was saying about it not being like an explosion or expanding maybe nor originating from a single center... Anyway, all that had to take much longer than 13.8 billion years...

Anyway, the universe has to be so very much older than we think it is, and it may be very much larger as well, and I don't know about it originating from a single center point yet either...

God Bless!

We do see evidence of an expanding from a center.

Look up the Sloan digital survey..... and pay attention to the concentric regions.....

Also the CMB shows what they call the Axis of Evil because its features give significance to the earths location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil_(cosmology)

""But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.""

And yet, there it is, staring them in the face.... so they ignore it..... must be just a statistical fluke, like galaxies in concentric rings highlighting us as the center..... Yes, best to just ignore it....

Of course that's just because they misinterpreted what the CMB really is.......

 

[Neogaia777]

We do see evidence of an expanding from a center.

Look up the Sloan digital survey..... and pay attention to the concentric regions.....

View attachment 240909

View attachment 240910

Also the CMB shows what they call the Axis of Evil because its features give significance to the earths location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil_(cosmology)

""But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.""

And yet, there it is, staring them in the face.... so they ignore it..... must be just a statistical fluke, like galaxies in concentric rings highlighting us as the center..... Yes, best to just ignore it....

Of course that's just because they misinterpreted what the CMB really is.......

I already explained the whole "how to know if you are in the center, how it always appears you are the center, and why, no matter where you are in the universe, ect, ect, in a prior post not that far back, the whole "vantage point" issue...

But thanks anyway...

God Bless!

 

[Neogaia777]

We do see evidence of an expanding from a center.

Look up the Sloan digital survey..... and pay attention to the concentric regions.....

View attachment 240909

View attachment 240910

Also the CMB shows what they call the Axis of Evil because its features give significance to the earths location.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axis_of_evil_(cosmology)

""But when you look at CMB map, you also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way, correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun — the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.""

And yet, there it is, staring them in the face.... so they ignore it..... must be just a statistical fluke, like galaxies in concentric rings highlighting us as the center..... Yes, best to just ignore it....

Of course that's just because they misinterpreted what the CMB really is.......

In the bottom pic you notice how there is no discernible edge or definable center, and how all the "stuff" spread around in strings and clusters is pretty evenly spread and how it seems like there could be more like it beyond what we can see, maybe much more...

And that the bottom pic does not look like the result of and explosion, in it's beginnings or in a state of acceleration and expansion... There are several dark pockets that are "pushing" the universe in it's expansion pretty equally and evenly out from one another...

OK, just answer me this one, "How old do you think the universe is...?"

A 3-D map of this would be awesome BTW... Then you'd really see what I am talking about....

God Bless!

 

[Justatruthseeker]

In the bottom pic you notice how there is no discernible edge or definable center, and how all the "stuff" spread around in strings and clusters is pretty evenly spread and how it seems like there could be more like it beyond what we can see, maybe much more...

And that the bottom pic does not look like the result of and explosion, in it's beginnings or in a state of acceleration and expansion... There are several dark pockets that are "pushing" the universe in it's expansion pretty equally and evenly out from one another...

OK, just answer me this one, "How old do you think the universe is...?"

A 3-D map of this would be awesome BTW... Then you'd really see what I am talking about....

God Bless!

That’s because the southern map is far less detailed than the northern map. It is not yet complete and compiled in the same amount of detail.....

You are simply seeing only a fraction of the amount of data available in the northern hemisphere that has been compiled from many surveys, unlike the southern which is still in progress.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

I already explained the whole "how to know if you are in the center, how it always appears you are the center, and why, no matter where you are in the universe, ect, ect, in a prior post not that far back, the whole "vantage point" issue...

But thanks anyway...

God Bless!

Uhh huh, and of course you have been to other galaxies and so know that it looks the same from everywhere or is this just a wishful assumption on the part of those who wish it were so????

There is not one observable fact that supports this conclusion. In fact, since they claim the furthest galaxies are young, if someone were standing on one of those, the universe would not look the same from that viewpoint, but 13 billion years younger.... with most galaxies not even formed yet......

That’s an invalid assumption which has no observable facts to support it.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

We cannot find or determine a single origin point or center, nor edge... And if it did disperse from a single center in a kind of like an explosion, then we should be able to see some evidence of that, even if we could see just maybe a quarter of the explosion, or just 10% of it, we should see some evidence of that explosion, like being able to discern a center or edge, unless were just not seeing very much and the universe is simply larger than we maybe can imagine, or have imagined... And we, seeing 46.5 billion light years out, may only be seeing a small fraction of the universe in it's entirety...

Then try and do the math...

Then there is the fact that the earth is said to be 4.6 billion years old, and the "entire universe", (anyway), The earth is said to 4.6 billion years old, right...? And what, and how old is our star...? Cause see, I don't know if we have that right, cause it takes a certain amount of time for stars and their systems to form, how long was that...? Say it took 6 billion years (which I think It might have taken longer possibly, anyway), Say it took 6 billion years for this star and it solar system of ours to form... Then that leaves, what? 3 billion years for the universe to have expanded out to us and to have placed us where we are at, right?, for a total (age) of aprox. 13.8 billion years, right?

Not quite, if this solar system including earth is aprox. 10-11 billion years old, then what about stars and star systems that exist both before and after ours, maybe some 5-10 billion years before ours or maybe more, anyway, then how long did it take our galaxy to form so those stars could form...? Or other galaxies before or after ours...?

Then, out further, strings of hundreds of millions of galaxies and clusters of up to billions, for a total of several trillions and that is only as far as we can see 46.5 billion light years out. (which I mentioned might only be a small fraction) Those strings and clusters all seem to pushing out from some dark pockets pretty equally across the board and this is the pattern of the expansion that I was saying about it not being like an explosion or expanding maybe nor originating from a single center... Anyway, all that had to take much longer than 13.8 billion years...

Anyway, the universe has to be so very much older than we think it is, and it may be very much larger as well, and I don't know about it originating from a single center point yet either...

God Bless!

Except every time the look they are finding mature galaxies where their belief says they should not be mature...

So apparently something is drastically wrong with their theory since all their predictions have been shown to be wrong by actual observations....

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/mature-galaxies-in-young/

Granted, they will sledgehammer ad-hoc theory on to try to explain away why all their predictions based upon their beliefs were one and all wrong....