Some questions about the flood?

[LightHorseman]

Is there a consistent reading of the Flood story of Genesis? How many of each kind of clean animal went on the Ark?

Where did all of the water come from and go to?

What did all of the carnivores eat after leaving the Ark? In other words, explain how the food chain worked before the present ratios of a few predators to many prey.

How did the degree of genetic variation in contemporary animals resulted from the few on the Ark.

How did a viable population was established for all of those animal kinds from only a single pair of each.

How did symbiotic animals and parasites survived immediately after the Flood.
Is it possible to fit the pairs (male and female) of all kinds of land animals and birds on the Ark? Remember to include all invertebrates as well as vertebrates, food and water, and neccesary environmental controls. Remember to include all kinds of cattle.


Is a vessel of the Arks structural soundness within the abilities of Bronze age builders?

Why are some types of animal only on certain continents? Why are Monotremes and marsupials only found in Australia? Wouldn't it be logical to expect to find traces of migration from the Ark's final resting place?

I am CONSTANTLY bombarded by questions like these at university. If anyone could please help me, that would be great

​

 

[jereth]

disclaimer: I'm writing from the point of view of a local flood interpretation.

Is there a consistent reading of the Flood story of Genesis? How many of each kind of clean animal went on the Ark?

The flood story consists of 2 narratives woven together, one which uses YHWH for the name of God, and the other which uses elohim. The Elohist narrative says that only 1 pair of each animal went on board (6:19, 20). The Yahwist narrative is concerned with the sacrifices made by Noah after the flood (Gen 8:20), so he has extra clean animals taken on board (7:2, 3).

Where did all of the water come from and go to?

Not really a problem for local flood proponents. It just took an extraordinarily large storm.

What did all of the carnivores eat after leaving the Ark? In other words, explain how the food chain worked before the present ratios of a few predators to many prey.

How did the degree of genetic variation in contemporary animals resulted from the few on the Ark.

How did a viable population was established for all of those animal kinds from only a single pair of each.

How did symbiotic animals and parasites survived immediately after the Flood.

Why are some types of animal only on certain continents? Why are Monotremes and marsupials only found in Australia? Wouldn't it be logical to expect to find traces of migration from the Ark's final resting place?

Unimportant questions for a local flood. Many animals were outside the flood zone, and were therefore unaffected.

Is it possible to fit the pairs (male and female) of all kinds of land animals and birds on the Ark? Remember to include all invertebrates as well as vertebrates, food and water, and neccesary environmental controls. Remember to include all kinds of cattle.

Not all types of animals needed to be on board the ark, only those in the immediate zone of the flood. The ark was probably quite big, so there was plenty of room.

Is a vessel of the Arks structural soundness within the abilities of Bronze age builders?

We don't really know how big a "cubit" was in those times, so it's impossible to say just how big the ark really was. Obviously Noah and his family managed to build an ark that was big enough to contain the animals, yet sound enough to survive the flood.

I am CONSTANTLY bombarded by questions like these at university. If anyone could please help me, that would be great

I hope I have been of assistance

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Is there a consistent reading of the Flood story of Genesis? How many of each kind of clean animal went on the Ark?

Where did all of the water come from and go to?

What did all of the carnivores eat after leaving the Ark? In other words, explain how the food chain worked before the present ratios of a few predators to many prey.

How did the degree of genetic variation in contemporary animals resulted from the few on the Ark.

How did a viable population was established for all of those animal kinds from only a single pair of each.

How did symbiotic animals and parasites survived immediately after the Flood.
Is it possible to fit the pairs (male and female) of all kinds of land animals and birds on the Ark? Remember to include all invertebrates as well as vertebrates, food and water, and neccesary environmental controls. Remember to include all kinds of cattle.


Is a vessel of the Arks structural soundness within the abilities of Bronze age builders?

Why are some types of animal only on certain continents? Why are Monotremes and marsupials only found in Australia? Wouldn't it be logical to expect to find traces of migration from the Ark's final resting place?



I am CONSTANTLY bombarded by questions like these at university. If anyone could please help me, that would be great

​

One of purposes of education at the university level is to dispell all knowledge of the things of God, and replace them with knowledge of the things of Satan i.e. materialism, and secular humanism. Most of these so-called questions are rhetorical, not meant to be answered, but instead to engage you in a debate that you cannot possibly win. Examine your own motives for such debates with these people. It's probably not a good thing to yoke yourself (intellectually) with unbelievers.

If you insist on presenting an answer tell them that you are still examining the question, and will get back to them at a future time.

 

[LightHorseman]

Jereth,

Thanks, but I'm unfamiliar with the "local" flood hypothesis. A couple of questions arising from...

If it was just local, why is the whole Ark bit necessary? Why not just move all the relevant people and animals out of the way?
Wouldn't there be a way for the wicked to get out of the way?
How does a local flood account for fossils and formations like the Grand Canyon?

Oldwiseguy...

Well thanks for your concern... but since I';m working as a nurse and need to get my qualifications, university is kind of a necessary evil. So your help on this matter rather than condescending write offs would be appreciated

 

[jereth]

Hi LightHorseman,

I couldn't help noticing you are Aussie -- which university do you attend? I graduated from Melbourne Uni 3 years ago -- uni was a time of great spiritual growth for me. I work in health care too.

Thanks, but I'm unfamiliar with the "local" flood hypothesis. A couple of questions arising from...

If it was just local, why is the whole Ark bit necessary? Why not just move all the relevant people and animals out of the way?

I guess the easy answer to this question is: "because that's how God chose to save Noah!" The ark dramatically demonstrated that Noah's deliverance depended on God's providence and mercy, whereas if he had just moved out of the way it would have appeared that he had saved himself. The ark also provided an opportunity for God to test Noah's faith in his Word, and his willingness to obey.

Hence we have these statements:
[FONT=&quot]"Noah did this; he did all that God commanded him[/FONT] " (6:22)
[FONT=&quot]"And Noah did all that the LORD had commanded him." (7:5)
[/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
Simply walking out of the way would have been easy, but building an ark required persistence and faith, and therefore a genuine confidence that God would do what he promised.

Wouldn't there be a way for the wicked to get out of the way?

I believe (as do many Christians) that the scope of the Flood story was the "known world" of the ancient near east, not the entire globe. It was specifically the wickedness of the people in that region that God wished to judge. Therefore, all the wicked in the region perished, though there appear to have been human survivors outside that region.

It is thus analagous to Sodom and Gomorrah -- a local judgement targeted against a specific people. Not that there weren't sinners living elsewhere, but God was focussing on one particular group of people (as is the pattern in the Old Testament). The universal judgement of all mankind will occur in the end.

How does a local flood account for fossils and formations like the Grand Canyon?

I personally have no problem accepting the conventional scientific understanding of paleontology and geology, which says that fossils formed over millions of years of earth's history, and geology is the result of tectonic, sedimentary and erosive forces likewise occuring over millions of years.

I respect that some fellow Christians simply cannot accept an explanation outside of a young-earth framework, but this I believe is the result of pushing the Scriptures through an interpretative mechanism which the Scriptures themselves do not mandate.

I can suggest a good Australian website about the interaction between science and Christian faith, which may help you with some of your issues:
www.iscast.org.au
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
All the best with uni!

 

[LightHorseman]

Dear Jereth,

University of New England, Armidale NSW.
Thanks for the insight

 

[OldWiseGuy]

Oldwiseguy...

Well thanks for your concern... but since I';m working as a nurse and need to get my qualifications, university is kind of a necessary evil. So your help on this matter rather than condescending write offs would be appreciated

So, how does a nursing student get into discussions about religion, and what does that have to do with nursing?

The tenor of your questions indicate that you are asking them, not 'others'. Your arguement about pi reveals this. Also, questions about the flood have tired many of us out on this forum. I have posted extensivily as have many others, on this subject, with neither opinion prevailing.

 

[random_guy]

One of purposes of education at the university level is to dispell all knowledge of the things of God, and replace them with knowledge of the things of Satan i.e. materialism, and secular humanism. Most of these so-called questions are rhetorical, not meant to be answered, but instead to engage you in a debate that you cannot possibly win. Examine your own motives for such debates with these people. It's probably not a good thing to yoke yourself (intellectually) with unbelievers.

If you insist on presenting an answer tell them that you are still examining the question, and will get back to them at a future time.

This is correct. I got my BS in Secularlism (Minor in Math), and I'm working on a Master's Degree in Satanism. This requires a lot of classes in biology, geology, and physics because they are all made up by evil atheist scientists hellbent on disproving God and the Bible.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is correct. I got my BS in Secularlism (Minor in Math), and I'm working on a Master's Degree in Satanism. This requires a lot of classes in biology, geology, and physics because they are all made up by evil atheist scientists hellbent on disproving God and the Bible.

I'm glad you're able to recognize that.

 

[LightHorseman]

Because nursing is scientifically based? would you want a nurse looking after you without a sound knowledge of how bacteria aquire resistance?

 

[Jase]

One of purposes of education at the university level is to dispell all knowledge of the things of God, and replace them with knowledge of the things of Satan i.e. materialism, and secular humanism. Most of these so-called questions are rhetorical, not meant to be answered, but instead to engage you in a debate that you cannot possibly win. Examine your own motives for such debates with these people. It's probably not a good thing to yoke yourself (intellectually) with unbelievers.

If you insist on presenting an answer tell them that you are still examining the question, and will get back to them at a future time.

College is the work of Satan? I'm in college, and I've never been dispelled of the knowledge of God, and shown anything about the truth of materialism and secular humanism. Me thinks you've been reading one too many conspiracy theories.

 

[Jase]

Because nursing is scientifically based? would you want a nurse looking after you without a sound knowledge of how bacteria aquire resistance?

Creationists don't believe that bacteria aquire resistance. Evolution explains that and since they don't believe in evolution, they don't accept modern medicine.

 

[laptoppop]

Creationists don't believe that bacteria require resistance. Evolution explains that and since they don't believe in evolution, they don't accept modern medicine.

I would hope there's a twinkle in your eye on that one - because it certainly isn't true of most creationists, including YECs.

 

[Mallon]

I would hope there's a twinkle in your eye on that one - because it certainly isn't true of most creationists, including YECs.

It certainly should be! Germs aren't biblical. In fact, according to a literal reading of the Bible, illness and disease are due to demons! (e.g., Matt 17:15-18, 1 Samuel 16:14, Matt 12:22, etc.)
Modern medicine is godless and a tool of the devil! I don't want my tax dollars going towards teaching these lies!!!

 

[jereth]

Dear Jereth,

University of New England, Armidale NSW.
Thanks for the insight

No problems mate. I live in melbourne VIC.
(at this point I should probably say something like: your football is not real football )

 

[OldWiseGuy]

College is the work of Satan? I'm in college, and I've never been dispelled of the knowledge of God, and shown anything about the truth of materialism and secular humanism. Me thinks you've been reading one too many conspiracy theories.

And methinks you've just made my case.

 

[OldWiseGuy]

This is correct. I got my BS in Secularlism (Minor in Math), and I'm working on a Master's Degree in Satanism. This requires a lot of classes in biology, geology, and physics because they are all made up by evil atheist scientists hellbent on disproving God and the Bible.

How do you deal with the theory of evolution in these courses?

 

[japhy]

And methinks you've just made my case.

Let me guess... he's been brainwashed into thinking that college isn't trying to brainwash him? Proverbs 3:5 does not say that higher learning is from Satan, it says that you should put your trust in God, not in human wisdom. This means that when God asked Abraham to sacrifice Isaac, Abraham did well to rely on God rather to think to himself "he's crazy, I'm not doing this". Human wisdom will not be your salvation in the end, trust in Christ will be your salvation. Seek God first, and all the rest shall be added to you, including wisdom.

 

[random_guy]

How do you deal with the theory of evolution in these courses?

Very simple. In my Plate Techtonics 666, the professor dims the lights, speaks in a hushed voice, "Now what I'm going to tell you never leaves this room. Evolution is false, but all the scientists take a solemn vow to uphold this Satanic belief in the hopes of misleading Christians to accept secularlism." In fact, it's in the syllabus of all the courses I take (all of them numbered 666 which makes it very confusing). That's why I tend to skip the first day. Heard the conspiracy oath once, don't need to hear it again every time at the start of the semester.

 

[MezzaMorta]

Noah’s arc is more then likely a story represenitive of the situation where the black sea filled in when some earthquake caused the Mediterranean sea to flow into the region the black sea is today. Would have seemed like the entire world flooded to the people of that region.