Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[BCsenior]

The OP has created his own anti-Good News.

The problem is NOT understanding the New Testament!

E.G. Romans 6 keeps repeating that BACs are FREE from
the bondage of sin: BACs are NO longer slaves of sin!
I.E. BACs can actually CHOOSE to NOT sin!
This means that BACs can be qualified to live with God!
Living free from sin is NOT for rewards ...
it is for keeping the salvation which was granted to you!

To me at least, THIS is the Good News!

Over and out from Star #2748341 in Galaxy #69037239.

(The "grace boys" can also rejoice in this Good News.)

 

[redleghunter]

Well, for this seemingly smug piece of writing, I have one piece of scripture.

Thus proving my point of eisegesis and pitting verses against other verses

It is all I need, though, I do have others.

Again, case in point. And which with just one passage you are refuted:

John 10: NASB
26“But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep. 27“My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29“My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.

Boom. You are refuted. See how ineffective word study verse pitting is employing eisegesis. All it does is create a dichotomy which does not exist when employing exegesis and sound expository.

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

Which is devoid of exegesis and harmonizing with all inspired Scriptures. For you to take a stand on these verses it means when a person sins there is no forgiveness of sins. One must be perfect as our Heavenly Father is Perfect.

I mean, really, who's kidding themselves here?

I'm not the one creating

You do know this is coming from the Koine Greek language right?

Not the English dictionary term believe, the Greek.

It is a verb. In case people do not know what a verb is, it is an action word, meaning you have to do something, something is being done, or needs to be done.

Yes just as thinking is a verb and comprehend is a verb. Not to mention the use of faith as a noun in the same passages where it is used as a verb as Paul does. This is the problem with creating theologies on word studies. It's called the Root Word Fallacy.

 

[BCsenior]

Since those born of God are incapable of living in sin therefore they are incapable of falling away from the faith

The problem with trusting only in 1 John are
the many NT verses which WARN against sinning,
falling away from the faith, falling from grace,
drawing back to perdition, etc.

Perhaps these voluminous dire warnings are only
to try to keep BACs on the straight and narrow!
I.E. perhaps they are only bluffs, exaggerations,
lies even? One has to wonder.

Meanwhile, perhaps post 7 will help some of you
understand exactly what true saving belief
is all about!
IMO, this goes a long way in an effort to
RECONCILE the 2 supposedly opposing
groups of verses re: OSAS.

 

[BCsenior]

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him
by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and fail
to produce fruit, they will be destroyed!

••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain
in My love. When you obey My commandments,
you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says, “Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

This also should make it clear ...
what it really means to be "in Christ".
Surely, it does NOT mean to be born-again.

 

[bcbsr]

Meanwhile, perhaps post 7 will help some of you
understand exactly what true saving belief
is all about!
It is about REONCILING the 2 main groups of verses,
which must be done to understand the NT.

Already reconciled in post #9 and many of my other posts without having to resort to a salvation by works soteriology.

 

[redleghunter]

The problem is NOT understanding the New Testament!

E.G. Romans 6 keeps repeating that BACs are FREE from
the bondage of sin: BACs are NO longer slaves of sin!
I.E. BACs can actually CHOOSE to NOT sin!
This means that BACs can be qualified to live with God!
Living free from sin is NOT for rewards ...
it is for keeping the salvation which was granted to you!

To me at least, THIS is the Good News!

Over and out from Star #2748341 in Galaxy #69037239.

(The "grace boys" can also rejoice in this Good News.)

Yes we are free from the bondage of sin and death and slaves to God's Righteousness.

What Pelagians forget is the order of things and Who is doing the doing:

Ephesians 2: NASB

1And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.


Notice a doctrine is taught here. And it is the doctrine of Grace Paul is teaching. We are dead and only God can make us alive. We are sons of wrath but God makes us children of God. We are saved by Grace through faith and not of our works. And after saying this we are God's workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand (see Ephesians 1).

With Christ as the source and summit of our salvation and being His workmanship the branch will produce fruit. No one is claiming a dead faith devoid of works. That is not salvific faith. I agree faith implies faithfulness to the Master of our salvation. And alas, even the fruit which is produced is not of us but of the True Vine Jesus Christ. Thanks be to God for such a Grace so rich and free.

Now I believe a lot of the verses you displayed were indeed plucked out of context but can be examined within context to see if what we are seeing are warnings of apostasy. In my studies I believe they are referring to this state of apostasy, but not a child of God who used to be a child of wrath and thus becoming once again a child of wrath.

One must look diligently throughout the OT and NT to nail down what is the common characteristic of the apostate. That would be unbelief. Knowing and seeing yet not believing or not caring to believe. Another common characteristic of the apostate is they become an enemy of God and His Beloved Son Jesus Christ and deny the Power of the Holy Spirit Who testifies of the Son. Yet another common characteristic of the apostate is that they 'attach' themselves to the ministry of God in His dispensations on Earth for personal gain (see all the warnings of false prophets and anti-christs) but God says "He never knew them." We can learn a lot about the rebellious Israelites in the Wilderness in the OT and from that embodiment in Judas Iscariot. They were the branches which attached themselves to the Vine but they were not true branches (His sheep) and thus did not produce fruit and withered away.

The above is a thematic approach for entry argument into examination of apostasy via exegesis.

Suffice it to say, the apostate is addressed by Christ when He says "many are called but few are chosen" and "I never knew you." Which Jesus thematically addressed in the parables of the wheat and tares and the parable of the sower/soils.

Now if you want to explore the thematic of apostasy, which will take a lot of 'ink', let me know.

But I won't play the verse pitting rodeo.

 

[BCsenior]

Already reconciled in post #9 and many of my other posts without having to resort to a salvation by works soteriology.

IMO, what you must resort to is:
explain the multitude of anti-OSAS NT verses!

 

[BCsenior]

Yes we are free from the bondage of sin and death and slaves to God's Righteousness.

Perhaps it will help, if you see that Paul was writing
ONLY to "the faithful" in Ephesus and Colossae.
All of those glorious descriptions of who these BACs were
... they were ONLY about "the faithful" in those 2 cities!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...
WHY doesn't someone comment on my signature?
It is only one of many dire warnings in the NT
written to BACs.

 

[redleghunter]

1 john is an excellent primer for New Testament theology, just at a glace the link looks pretty solid. The reason a person who is born again cannot sin is because the new nature is the righteousness of God in Christ 1 John 3:9. That seed is sown in various soils according to Jesus parable of the sower. I would agree that it is possible to lose salvation if it's possible for that seed, the word of God, to be quenched in the heart of the believer. I further maintain that you are not saved until the Holy Spirit tells you you are Romans 8:16, then it's eternal security which is synonomous with eternal life. It is always by grace through faith, the works of righteousness that folliw are not required for salvation, they are salvation.

Your post above reminded me of a Spurgeon sermon on the subject:

As ye have received Christ Jesus the Lord.
—Colossians 2:6

The life of faith is represented as receiving-an act which implies the very opposite of anything like merit. It is simply the acceptance of a gift. As the earth drinks in the rain, as the sea receives the streams, as night accepts light from the stars, so we, giving nothing, partake freely of the grace of God. The saints are not, by nature, wells, or streams, they are but cisterns into which the living water flows; they are empty vessels into which God pours His salvation. The idea of receiving implies a sense of realization, making the matter a reality. One cannot very well receive a shadow; we receive that which is substantial: so is it in the life of faith, Christ becomes real to us. While we are without faith, Jesus is a mere name to us-a person who lived a long while ago, so long ago that His life is only a history to us now! By an act of faith Jesus becomes a real person in the consciousness of our heart. But receiving also means grasping or getting possession of. The thing which I receive becomes my own: I appropriate to myself that which is given. When I receive Jesus, He becomes my Saviour, so mine that neither life nor death shall be able to rob me of Him. All this is to receive Christ-to take Him as God's free gift; to realize Him in my heart, and to appropriate Him as mine.

Salvation may be described as the blind receiving sight, the deaf receiving hearing, the dead receiving life; but we have not only received these blessings, we have received CHRIST JESUS Himself. It is true that He gave us life from the dead. He gave us pardon of sin; He gave us imputed righteousness. These are all precious things, but we are not content with them; we have received Christ Himself. The Son of God has been poured into us, and we have received Him, and appropriated Him. What a heartful Jesus must be, for heaven itself cannot contain Him!​

 

[redleghunter]

IMO, what you must resort to is:
explain the multitude of anti-OSAS NT verses!

Well it's called exegesis. That's what we are looking for. If you are comfortable with a theology based on eisegesis, then as Pope Francis said once "who am I to judge?"

 

[redleghunter]

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...
WHY doesn't someone comment on my signature?
It is only one of many dire warnings in the NT
written to BACs.

Sure reply to mine first.

 

[redleghunter]

Perhaps it will help, if you see that Paul was writing
ONLY to "the faithful" in Ephesus and Colossae.
All of those glorious descriptions of who these BACs were
... they were ONLY about "the faithful" in those 2 cities!

You are concluding only the faithful in Ephesus and Colossae are saved by the Grace of God? If they were so faithful why remind them how they were saved?

 

[bcbsr]

IMO, what you must resort to is:
explain the multitude of anti-OSAS NT verses!

Already done, for those who paid attention.

 

[BCsenior]

You are concluding only the faithful in Ephesus and Colossae are saved by the Grace of God? If they were so faithful why remind them how they were saved?

Why not remind them? ... Just a nice reminder!
Plus, you missed the dire warnings they also received.
Reason: tryin' to keep 'em on the straight and narrow.
Because salvation is a process!
If it is NOT a life-long process ...
then multitudes of dire warnings are hoaxes!

 

[BBAS 64]

Well, for this seemingly smug piece of writing, I have one piece of scripture. It is all I need, though, I do have others.

Hebrews 6:
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

I mean, really, who's kidding themselves here?



You do know this is coming from the Koine Greek language right?

Not the English dictionary term believe, the Greek.

It is a verb. In case people do not know what a verb is, it is an action word, meaning you have to do something, something is being done, or needs to be done.

Good Day, Acts

Yes I do believe Hunter knows from which language it is coming from. Put that a side for one moment we do need some context and we have it here from one of the top 3 Biblical Greek exegetes in America.

Part 5: Jesus Is Better: Don't Apostatize (Hebrews 5:11-6:20)

Thomas Schreiner would be another of those top 3 he has a commentary of the whole book. Pink does a bang up job as well with the part of Hebrews as well you might well consider as well.

In Him,

Bill

 

[redleghunter]

Good Day, Acts

Yes I do believe Hunter knows from which language it is coming from. Put that a side for one moment we do need some context and we have it here from one of the top 3 Biblical Greek exegetes in America.

Part 5: Jesus Is Better: Don't Apostatize (Hebrews 5:11-6:20)

Thomas Schreiner would be another of those top 3 he has a commentary of the whole book. Pink does a bang up job as well with the part of Hebrews as well you might well consider as well.

In Him,

Bill

The link is to a piece by DA Carson. Interested in that. Can’t do audio right now is there a transcript?

 

[BBAS 64]

For verses such as the one above to be reconciled
with the many dire warnings in the NT ...
we must come to this conclusion ...
that little word "believe" in our NTs
does NOT mean what most people think it means!
It must include all of the following:
true heart belief, strong faith, trust, and obedience!
This is True Saving Belief.

I.E. Those who truly believe on Jesus will obey Him.
.

Good day, Bc

That would be consistent with the normative definition (context dependent) with the English word we use.

So what is the basis of your strong distinction here and what is the point of such?

In Him,

Bill

 

[redleghunter]

Why not remind them? ... Just a nice reminder!
Plus, you missed the dire warnings they also received.
Reason: tryin' to keep 'em on the straight and narrow.
Because salvation is a process!
If it is NOT a life-long process ...
then multitudes of dire warnings are hoaxes!

I addressed your comments please address mine.

 

[BBAS 64]

The link is to a piece by DA Carson. Interested in that. Can’t do audio right now is there a transcript?

Not that I am aware of... Sorry I have video of Schreiner and Dr. York in a conference on Hebrews both talking about it.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Why not remind them? ... Just a nice reminder!
Plus, you missed the dire warnings they also received.
Reason: tryin' to keep 'em on the straight and narrow.

Good Day,BC

just for the sake these "dire Warnings" are ineffective (tryin) to keep them on the straight and narrow. so they are not only useless but a supreme waste of time.

Because salvation is a process!
If it is NOT a life-long process ...
then multitudes of dire warnings are hoaxes!

You are simply begging the question.... called a fallacy you assume 2 things which you have objectively failed to prove... one is true, but the other is at best an assertion on your part.

In Him,

Bill