Some of the best NT verses threatening loss of salvation

[BBAS 64]

Perhaps it will help, if you see that Paul was writing
ONLY to "the faithful" in Ephesus and Colossae.
All of those glorious descriptions of who these BACs were
... they were ONLY about "the faithful" in those 2 cities!

Meanwhile, back at the ranch ...
WHY doesn't someone comment on my signature?
It is only one of many dire warnings in the NT
written to BACs.

Good Day, BC

What about your signature would you like to comment on?

We could walk the context starting from where in Romans?

"if" the Son shall set you free you are free indeed... and if the Son chooses not set you free you continue to be a slave and you love your slave master and your sin. If attempting to use the law as the primary instrumental means for your own self atonement and self sanctification is a fools game and you are condemned, and rightly as an enemy of God. Freed by Christ we have peace with him and are not condemned because we do not walk like (in the) flesh and attempt to self atone and self sanctify with the law. Christ did what the law can not do he sanctified and atoned (justified) for us... he is the better promise. We obey from the heart that God gave us in our un-Godly state and we now reflect him, in our complete justification and holiness in Christ.


In Him,

Bill

 

[BCsenior]

That (BC's explanation of "believe") would be consistent with the normative definition (context dependent) with the English word we use.
So what is the basis of your strong distinction here and what is the point of such?

Isn't it critical to understand what true saving belief is?

 

[BCsenior]

What about your signature would you like to comment on?

Most people on Christian forums run from
such verses as Romans 6:16.
Because it teaches against OSAS.
Your comment could be: Amen ... or ... Get lost.

 

[redleghunter]

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him
by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and fail
to produce fruit, they will be destroyed!

••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain
in My love. When you obey My commandments,
you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says, “Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

This also should make it clear ...
what it really means to be "in Christ".
Surely, it does NOT mean to be born-again.

This is a classic example of the snip and play use of Holy Scriptures. If we keep reading in John 15 we see the following:

John 15: NASB

12“This is My commandment, that you love one another, just as I have loved you. 13“Greater love has no one than this, that one lay down his life for his friends. 14“You are My friends if you do what I command you. 15“No longer do I call you slaves, for the slave does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you. 16“You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you. 17“This I command you, that you love one another.

Now of course your response is going to be "but this was only for the disciples with Him." If this be the case then the same applies to verses 1-12.

 

[redleghunter]

Most people on Christian forums run from
such verses as Romans 6:16.
Because it teaches against OSAS.
Your comment could be: Amen ... or ... Get lost.

Or we can view the entire dialogue of chapter 6 and if you want continue into chapter 7.

Romans 6: NASB

1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it? 3Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? 4Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life. 5For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin; 7for he who has died is freed from sin.

8Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him. 10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts, 13and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? May it never be! 16Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, 18and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness, resulting in further lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness, resulting in sanctification.

20For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21Therefore what benefit were you then deriving from the things of which you are now ashamed? For the outcome of those things is death. 22But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[BBAS 64]

Most people on Christian forums run from
such verses as Romans 6:16.
Because it teaches against OSAS.
Your comment could be: Amen ... or ... Get lost.

Good Day, BC

Well then I guess I am not most people which chapter and verse would you like to start with...

Post your exegesis here and then I will do the same.. I tee'ed up some good commentary on Romans for you in a wide context for Romans chapter 6 sorry you could not interact with it.

Again you are asserting things you have not proven...

I have more than 2 options.

Looking forward to your handling of the text in it's own context....

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Those who belong to Jesus were drawn to Him
by Father God (John 6:44).
But, if they fail to remain in Jesus and fail
to produce fruit, they will be destroyed!

••• John 15:1-10 “I am the true grapevine, and My Father is the gardener. He (Father God) cuts off every branch of Mine (Jesus) that doesn’t produce fruit … Remain in Me, and I will remain in you. … Anyone who does not remain in Me is thrown away like a useless branch and withers. Such branches are gathered into a pile to be burned. … Remain
in My love. When you obey My commandments,
you remain in My love, just as I obey My Father’s commandments and remain in His love.”

4 times in John 14, Jesus says, “Those who love Me will obey My commandments.”

This also should make it clear ...
what it really means to be "in Christ".
Surely, it does NOT mean to be born-again.

Good Day, BC

Just to be clear on John 6:44 it says:

No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.


Where in the text do you see "those who belonging to Jesus", again would love to see your handling of the text in it's context...

Rather the text says...
39: And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

The high priestly Prayer of The Son.

John 17:6 I have manifested your name to the people whom you gave me out of the world. Yours they were, and you gave them to me, and they have kept your word.

They were the Fathers and he gave them to the son... he lost none and that was the Fathers will. Jesus always does the fathers will and unable to fail. I know you have a hard time believing that but the truth is not dependent on your belief.

So where would you like to start in Jn 6 Verse 1??

In Him,

Bill

 

[BCsenior]

John 15: NASB
16 “You did not choose Me but I chose you, and appointed you that you would go and bear fruit, and that your fruit would remain, so that whatever you ask of the Father in My name He may give to you

All BACs have been chosen before the foundation of the world, then called when they are alive!, and appointed to do all kinds of good stuff!

However, they are NOT forced to do what they're called to do ... because they have a God-given free will.
I.E. they are not robots!

Guess what?
There are actually reasons for the dire warnings
given by the Lord to BACs in the NT.
1) to try to keep the BACs on the straight and narrow.
2) to tell BACs what happens to them, if they are not
faithful, if they do not endure in the faith until death, etc.

 

[BCsenior]

Just to be clear on John 6:44 it says:
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.
Where in the text do you see "those who belonging to Jesus", again would love to see your handling of the text in it's context...

When Father God draws someone to Jesus,
the person becomes a BAC, and the plan is
for the person to stay in the faith
and be raised up on the last day.
However, the BAC is NOT forced to co-operate with
the Holy Spirit, and do his part, and end up being a victorious overcomer ... he/she has the free will NOT to!
Of course, in all of this ... God does His best to keep
the BAC on the right track, but He does NOT force Him against his will. What else is our free will for?

 

[redleghunter]

All BACs have been chosen before the foundation of the world, then called when they are alive!, and appointed to do all kinds of good stuff!

However, they are NOT forced to do what they're called to do ... because they have a God-given free will.
I.E. they are not robots!

Guess what?
There are actually reasons for the dire warnings
given by the Lord to BACs in the NT.
1) to try to keep the BACs on the straight and narrow.
2) to tell BACs what happens to them, if they are not
faithful, if they do not endure in the faith until death, etc.

Oh I'm in agreement good pastors like Paul, Peter, James and John should be putting the fear of God in the sheep. Much more is expected of us. We are exhorted to walk in the Spirit be filled by the Spirit and to live holy lives. Hey we as sealed in the Lord are in this together and why Christ left us with a church and not temple worship. We are His Body and we are to shoulder each other's burdens and to be accountable to one another in love. And sometimes love is tough love.

 

[redleghunter]

Of course, in all of this ... God does His best to keep
the BAC on the right track, but He does NOT force Him against his will. What else is our free will for?

It's more than best efforts. I mean we have God the Holy Spirit.

 

[BBAS 64]

When Father God draws someone to Jesus,
the person becomes a BAC, and the plan is
for the person to stay in the faith
and be raised up on the last day.
However, the BAC is NOT forced to co-operate with
the Holy Spirit, and do his part, and end up being a victorious overcomer ... he/she has the free will NOT to!
Of course, in all of this ... God does His best to keep
the BAC on the right track, but He does NOT force Him against his will. What else is our free will for?

Good Day, BC

Goes does his best... the Holy Spirit does his part. When did it occur to God that his best was not good enough to do that which he intended to do "keep us"....

The plan is for that person to stay, where is that in the text? Is that Gods plan and he could fail at that as well.... can you explain to me what kind of God that is cause the revealed God of Scripture is nothing like that.

Jesus said I will raise him up... sounds like he intends unconditionally (no dependent clause in the text) I suppose he could fail at that as well in your mind.

Waiting for some textual work on your part... I am ready when you are as you can tell I am doing just that.

In Him,

Bill

 

[BCsenior]

Goes does his best... the Holy Spirit does his part. When did it occur to God that his best was not good enough to do that which he intended to do "keep us"

The proof is in da puddin'.
The churches are filled today with people
who are involved in habitual sinning.
Are these people not BACs?

Free will was given to them for a reason:
the Lord don't want no robots serving Him!
His angels all have free will, and look what happened to 1/3 of them ... eternity in hell with their leader of choice, Satan!

Surely, God will be successful in showing many (most?) of the BACs the Truth about their responsibilities!
In the meantime, He uses people like me
to warn them about their responsibilities
... and the DANGER they are in!

You should read what God has been saying to
His prophets and watchmen about His church
(which is fast asleep) ... it ain't pretty, my friend!

I am preparing a thread possibly entitled: "The Word came from heaven to set people free of sin!"
How is this accomplished? ... Not via magic,
but through the new covenant of co-operation:
Jesus' sacrifice + the believer's sacrifice

But, Satan says:
"You got a free ticket to heaven! Sit back and relax."

 

[BBAS 64]

The proof is in da puddin'.
The churches are filled today with people
who are involved in habitual sinning.
Are these people not BACs?

Free will was given to them for a reason:
the Lord don't want no robots serving Him!
His angels all have free will, and look what happened to 1/3 of them ... eternity in hell with their leader of choice, Satan!

Surely, God will be successful in showing many (most?) of the BACs the Truth about their responsibilities!
In the meantime, He uses people like me
to warn them about their responsibilities
... and the DANGER they are in!

You should read what God has been saying to
His prophets and watchmen about His church
(which is fast asleep) ... it ain't pretty, my friend!

I am preparing a thread possibly entitled: "The Word came from heaven to set people free of sin!"
How is this accomplished? ... Not via magic,
but through the new covenant of co-operation:
Jesus' sacrifice + the believer's sacrifice

But, Satan says:
"You got a free ticket to heaven! Sit back and relax."

Good Day, BC


I must say I am a bit disappointed that you have shown no willingness to deal with the text of Scripture.


You can open whatever you like… sorry I will not partake in discussions that may involve the errors of the Roman church. These kinds of issue were addressed quite well within the historical frame work of of Pelagianism. The early church and the early councils were very complete in every detail in dealing with such error. There is no reason for me for me to add to the historical Christian witness on these types of issues.


In Him


Bill

 

[BCsenior]

I must say I am a bit disappointed that you have shown no willingness to deal with the text of Scripture.

Let's deal ... choose one.

 

[BBAS 64]

Let's deal ... choose one.

Ok now we can get to the text- John 6:35 - 48 verse by verse post the whole context and do verse by verse walk though of the text from start to finish.... You game?

I await your exegesis.


In Him,

Bill

 

[BCsenior]

John 6:35 - 48 verse by verse post the whole context and do verse by verse walk though of the text from start to finish.... You game?

Ain't game.
Foist verse (6:35) talks about "believe",
and I've already told you what that word really means.
You must choose from amongst the many NT verses in my OPs, not from your favorites.

If you choose to stick with your favorites and reject mine, that's up to you.

You must RECONCILE mine with yours, or you're wasting your time.

 

[BBAS 64]

Ain't game.
Foist verse (6:35) talks about "believe",
and I've already told you what that word really means.
You must choose from amongst the many NT verses in my OPs, not from your favorites.

If you choose to stick with your favorites and reject mine, that's up to you.

You must RECONCILE mine with yours, or you're wasting your time.

Good day, BC

You love the baseless assertions don't you ... to assume view is the correct one just because you say so.

I asked you to pick one you could not so you told me to and I did...

Handling scripture in it's context clearly is an issue for you, you can not even deal with your signature in it's context. I though (incorrectly) you would at least try but you are not able to do so.

Have a great day.

Bill

 

[BCsenior]

Good day, BC

You love the baseless assertions don't you ... to assume view is the correct one just because you say so.

I asked you to pick one you could not so you told me to and I did...

Handling scripture in it's context clearly is an issue for you, you can not even deal with your signature in it's context. I though (incorrectly) you would at least try but you are not able to do so.

Have a great day.

Bill

Chow, Willy ... I ain't interested in wastin' my time.

 

[Natsumi Lam]

Savation is a contracted covenant. Dan 9:27

Continueing to obey is about relationship.

How does Dan 9:24 first 4 edicts apply
1.FINISH transgression
2.put an END to sin
3.RECONCILIATION for iniquity
4.bring EVERLASTING righteousness

Of course barring the mark etc