Some honest answers please...

fantascey · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Well let's find out. Do you accept the fact that life is the product of evolution?

I accept that God created Life, and this earth, and that Life has evolved accordingly. I accept evolution as it could not have happened without first the push in the right direction. Provided by God. I accept that God, chose to put evolution in motion. You cannot prove that he Didn't. Yet to me, Our very existence, is proof that he Did.

fantascey · Aug 4, 2017

be aware that I soon have to leave, and will not be back until monday. I live in an area with no internet, and am doing this from my place of work. so that is not me bailing on our debate!

AV1611VET · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Please AV, you and I both know that you are in no position to judge my morals.

She asked how you can say that, and I told her.

And you know as well as I do how I define morals:

morals is how one interacts with God
ethics is how one interacts with his fellow man

By that definition, atheists have no morals.

Subduction Zone said:
A truly moral person understands morals.

Because they have a relationship with God.

Subduction Zone said:
That once again leaves you out.

Your definition leaves me out, my definition leaves you out.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

fantascey said:
I accept that God created Life, and this earth, and that Life has evolved accordingly. I accept evolution as it could not have happened without first the push in the right direction. Provided by God. I accept that God, chose to put evolution in motion. You cannot prove that he Didn't. Yet to me, Our very existence, is proof that he Did.

You have it backwards. If you make a claim you are the one that needs to support it. And by accepting evolution you are not a creationist.

And your understanding of the concept of "proof" is seriously flawed.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

fantascey said:
be aware that I soon have to leave, and will not be back until monday. I live in an area with no internet, and am doing this from my place of work. so that is not me bailing on our debate!

That is not a problem. You do not seem to be the sort to bail.

fantascey · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
No, you didn't. You don't appear to even understand the concept.

Once again, if you want to discuss any of those pick your best one. A Gish Gallop is dishonest in a debate. I do not like them.

What would you say is a weak argument in this? Choose a statement I have made, and I shall defend it! I had to look up Gish Gallop, to know what that even is. But I assure you, I have never before been accused of a weak argument. I am willing to defend my beliefs.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

AV1611VET said:
She asked how you can say that, and I told her.

And you know as well as I do how I define morals:

morals is how one interacts with God

You are of course wrong in this.

ethics is how one interacts with his fellow man

Sorry, but you do not get to make up your own definitions.

Try again.

By that definition, atheists have no morals.

That is because it is a false definition. Claiming that atheists have no morals is both a lie and a personal attack. I am sure that you do not want to do that.

Because they have a relationship with God.

Wrong again, but whenever you have to drag God into the debate you always are.

Your definition leaves me out, my definition leaves you out.

Not "my definition". And your false definition is just that, a worthless false definition.

AV1611VET · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
And by accepting evolution you are not a creationist.

EEEEENT! WRONG!

Theistic evolution, theistic evolutionism, or evolutionary creationism are views that regard religious teachings about God as compatible with modern scientific understanding about biological evolution.

SOURCE

Roseonathorn · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Not what I said. And please, let's just call the Bible "the Bible". And no, I am here to help people understand basic science. Correcting errors in beliefs is not "lashing out". I am not the one that brought up the resurrection, or did you miss that?

Hardly. There are some Christians that one can have a reasonable conversation with, there are some that one can't. AV, who I was responding to is one of the unreasonable ones.

Now please, you are merely projecting your flaws upon others. And you are rather paranoid to boot.

Not a good combination.

Wrong, you only believe that. If you "knew" you could demonstrate why and how your God is real. I can support my claims. I have yet to see a creationist that could come even close.

Suppose a christian person, or a creationist or whatever combination You call them, had died and seen God in heaven and some relatives perhaps some angel too before this christian was told He or She was needed on earth. Would that be called as something more as faith, belief, suppose, maybe? No. Not in The world, not to the evolutionist because it can not be scientifically proven. But that christian or those christians might be hard to convince it was just a dream a temporary mental state before they turn to dust in their mind. They might just better not say it out loud, they can be happy they are alive but the faith is as clear in their mind as daylight.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

fantascey said:
What would you say is a weak argument in this? Choose a statement I have made, and I shall defend it! I had to look up Gish Gallop, to know what that even is. But I assure you, I have never before been accused of a weak argument. I am willing to defend my beliefs.

Then bring up your claims one at a time. That is the way it is done.

fantascey · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
You have it backwards. If you make a claim you are the one that needs to support it. And by accepting evolution you are not a creationist.

And your understanding of the concept of "proof" is seriously flawed.

I believe in God. By believing in God, I also accept that he loves me and created me. When I say Me. I mean, he put in motion all life on earth, and created us. Did he use evolution to do so? I think so. But that doesnt mean that the Bible is a lie. It says even in the bible that Time to the Lord is not the same as we perceive it. So when he says a Day in Genesis, I believe that all of these things happened, not in our course of a day, but in a day for God. Psalms 90:4 says
For in Your sight a thousand years
are like yesterday that passes by,
like a few hours of the night.
(HCSB). So how could we even be the ones to say, how long it took him to create us all, if we are not seeing the time the same way as he does?

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

AV1611VET said:
EEEEENT! WRONG!

Nope.

SOURCE

LOL!! You really need to read your articles.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

fantascey said:
I believe in God. By believing in God, I also accept that he loves me and created me. When I say Me. I mean, he put in motion all life on earth, and created us. Did he use evolution to do so? I think so. But that doesnt mean that the Bible is a lie.

I have to stop you right here. The ones that say "If evolution is true the Bible is a lie" tend to be creationists of the AV and dad ilk. Atheists don't make that claim. Christians that accept evolution do not say that.

It says even in the bible that Time to the Lord is not the same as we perceive it. So when he says a Day in Genesis, I believe that all of these things happened, not in our course of a day, but in a day for God. Psalms 90:4 says
For in Your sight a thousand years
are like yesterday that passes by,
like a few hours of the night.

I agree. When I was a Christian I had no problem with the Bible or evolution.

(HCSB). So how could we even be the ones to say, how long it took him to create us all, if we are not seeing the time the same way as he does?

The problem is that the word "create" in the context of a creationism/evolution debate almost always refers to the seven day creation myth. In that sense of the word you clearly are not a creationist.

But since we are discussing the Old Testament do you believe the Noah's Ark story? You do know that there never was a worldwide flood, don't you?

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

Roseonathorn said:
Suppose a christian person, or a creationist or whatever combination You call them, had died and seen God in heaven and some relatives perhaps some angel too before this christian was told He or She was needed on earth. Would that be called as something more as faith, belief, suppose, maybe? No. Not in The world, not to the evolutionist because it can not be scientifically proven. But that christian or those christians might be hard to convince it was just a dream a temporary mental state before they turn to dust in their mind. They might just better not say it out loud, they can be happy they are alive but the faith is as clear in their mind as daylight.

But that hasn't happened. NDE's are simply the brain acting up as it shuts down.

And please, you are misusing the word "proven". In science nothing is ever "proven". Gravity is not "proven" in science. If you want to use the word as most people use it then yes, evolution has been proved to be correct.

Why do you think that the theory of evolution has not met its burden of proof?

AV1611VET · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Sorry, but you do not get to make up your own definitions.

Why?

Because I can't rig a vote behind closed doors?

Subduction Zone said:
That is because it is a false definition.

EEEEENT! WRONG AGAIN!

Morality can be a body of standards or principles derived from a code of conduct from a particular philosophy, religion, or culture, or it can derive from a standard that a person believes should be universal.

SOURCE

Subduction Zone said:
Claiming that atheists have no morals is both a lie and a personal attack.

It depends on your definition.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

AV1611VET said:
Why?

Because I can't rig a vote behind closed doors?

And AV admits that he is wrong again.

EEEEENT! WRONG AGAIN!

SOURCE

And another fail brought to you by AV.

My advice, stay away from handguns if you like your toes. You have a tendency to shoot your own feet.

It depends on your definition.

Nope, you do not get to make up your own defintions.

Roseonathorn · Aug 4, 2017

fantascey said:
You asked me for scientific evidence and i provided it. Here is what I am asking you to do. Have a little faith.
Do you not understand that this is what happens to your soul, when you pass from this earth? Aren't you worried about burning in eternity? I, for one, am very glad to be a christian and to have the beliefs that I have, and to have faith. I can tell you. that even thought of being an atheist, as you say that you are, is downright terrifying. Because that means that you dont believe in any of it. And if you don't believe in any of it, how can you expect for God to believe in you, or for anyone to believe in you? and to save you? Arent you worried for yourself? Love exists. Why shouldnt God?
It is all about faith.

It is about Love too, that is one of the harder parts and forgiving our enemies. The worst kind of enemies. Sometimes we need to ask the Lord for help to do that. You, we, me are here for a reason to love and to learn. Your life and where and how You spend eternity is more important than how long time it took for the world to become what it is today. Heaven and God is real and I suppose the rest is too. So if we are wise we should get to understand how the Lord thinks and reasons by reading His word.

AV1611VET · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
Nope, you do not get to make up your own defintions.

I submit your string of errors as an answer to Post 291.

Subduction Zone · Aug 4, 2017

AV1611VET said:
I submit your string of errors as an answer to Post 291.

AV, Ninth Commandment violation. The string of errors were yours.

Try again.

Roseonathorn · Aug 4, 2017

Subduction Zone said:
No need, but you should not be so sensitive. We are all ignorant in certain topics. There is a saying out there, and it really irks creationists because it is true:

"There is no such thing as an honest, informed creationist". Creationists either tend to be very ignorant about the sciences, or they tend to be dishonest. Most creationists here do not even understand the nature of evidence and are afraid to learn. They can understand where understanding the concept of evidence leads to so they avoid the subject.

I have heard the theory of that the flood did not happen, I have learned the evolutiontheory in school and know I am more of a creative person. If I come around as dishonest here is one little painting of proof as I did as a kid. I saw a painting and painted a similar at 11-12 years old something. If I am ignorant, sorry but the topic is not of so much interest for me as it is for You perhaps. I do not call You rude and dishonest, ignorant and unwilling to learn because You might not like kids art either. Now is bedtime in my part of the world. Keep focus on what matters.

Some honest answers please...

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