some debate/descussion? [Moved to Exploring Christianity]

[Shawn7656]

im not really too sure if this breaks forum rules, or if im posting in the correct board or not. i dont want to question christianity as a religion nor do i want to denounce it in any way. i dont want to mock anyone or anything nor am i trying to "convert" you to anything.

"Challenging the existence of God or the validity of Christianity in these forums is prohibited." -rules

this seems to be something that MAY come up in this thread as discussion furthers in which case im not sure if this thread will get locked/deleted. i decided to come to a christian forum to ask "why god?". i chose to leave my religion as other so no one tries to reason with why i ask certain questions.

im going to ask a lot of questions now, only so the mods know where im going to be going with this thread so they can decide if its acceptable or not before i get into a conversation with someone.
...
but getting to the point... i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why christianity? i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life. i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to. i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it. i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldnt get too out of hand now could it?

dont feel like you need to answer all of the questions, just do as you see fit, or answer what you feel qualified to answer. if this thread survives, i will have a much better layout in my latter posts as opposed to this as im trying to lay it all out and didnt have a good plan on how to do so before i typed it out. if this thread gets deleted, i would greatly appreciate the mod sending me an email to a christian based forum that DOES allow for the questioning of the religion, as its what i intend to do, but moreso on a broader spectrum (going more towards the beliefs than the actual practice)

tl;dr questioning the belief in god, and the choosing of christianity over other religions. also wondering if this thread is "legal" on this site

(please dont see this as me spamming or flaming, ive been interested in religion and its been one of my major studies outside of school for the last three years)

 

[Jakihe]

but getting to the point... i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why christianity? i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life.

Why God? I can't have that much faith in myself. I can't feel that I am alone in this huge massive world. I desire and seek a greater being than myself. One who I can believe has a power far greater than the flawed human race.
Why Christianity? Because when I accepted God, I wanted His word, which is The Holy Bible and through that I am aware of the fact that I cannot reach God of my own power. The Bible tells us that Jesus, God's son, was given to us to reach God. He died for us because we are not capable of being righteous of our own human power or are we able to justify all the wrong (sin) we have committed. Jesus was willing to do that for us. He dies in our place so we would not have to. The wages of sin is death but because Jesus did this in our place, we are given a second chance. Through Jesus I have life and a promise of an afterlife with God.

i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to.

Because I believe human nature is selfish. It is a survival instinct, if you will. We instinctively look out for ourselves, breeding selfishness. And where there is selfishness, there is immorality.

i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it. i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldnt get too out of hand now could it?

I am not sure of the mods view on this. My experience so far is that they have been very fair toward anyone seeking answers. I think that where people are hateful and rude or blasphemous, they will step in and take the appropriate action.

I have always been Christian but I have sought deeper truths thruout and have left denominations. It is not a denomination I am committed to, or to man, it is God, through Christ, where my loyalty lies.




(please dont see this as me spamming or flaming, ive been interested in religion and its been one of my major studies outside of school for the last three years)
Personally, I don't see it that way

 

[JESUS<3sYOU]

Without God nothing has any meaning, but with God, everything has meaning and is wonderful. Open your heart and pray to Jesus, because "Blessed are the poor in spirit, ... ." He fills them with meaning. Christianity is true. God is The Spirit of Truth.

 

[contango]

im not really too sure if this breaks forum rules, or if im posting in the correct board or not. i dont want to question christianity as a religion nor do i want to denounce it in any way. i dont want to mock anyone or anything nor am i trying to "convert" you to anything.

"Challenging the existence of God or the validity of Christianity in these forums is prohibited." -rules

I'm not a moderator here, but can say there's a big difference between challenging the existence of God and the validity of Christianity, and asking the kind of questions that anyone looking for "something more" might ask. IMO you fall into the latter camp here.

but getting to the point... i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why christianity? i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life. i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to. i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it. i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldnt get too out of hand now could it?

I'm not sure which section of the rules you're quoting from - on a forum like this it's reasonable to have some areas (like this one) designated for new Christians who want to know Christian perspectives on something and don't need people chiming in with their own views on why Christianity is false. In other areas more debate may be allowed, although since it's a Christian board it's to be expected that overt hostility to Christianity will be restricted if not banned.

As to "why God"? Short version - when I was seeking I got to thinking about where we all came from and following the process back to the beginning. I figured that what started it all was either god/s (small g used deliberately as at the time I used the term to denote one or more deities), or an unguided and therefore random event. Based on the balance of probabilities alone I concluded that the existence of god was far more likely than non-existence, so the next step was to look to find out more about that god.

From there the road was littered with things that spoke to me personally but may or may not have any relevance to anyone else, but that ultimately led me to believe that the Bible is the word of God, and therefore that the God of the Bible is the one true God.

It's certainly possible to be "a good person" regardless of the existence of God but if our 70-odd years are all we get and then that's the end, what difference does it make how we live our lives? Even starting from this premise we have to first ask what defines "good" and then what difference it makes if we are "good" or "not good" in the absence of any kind of deity.

 

[razeontherock]

why god?

Personal experience

and furthermore, why christianity?

The resurrection. After that, His ascension = ongoing ministry. Personal experience, not just 'arguing about how many angels fit on the head of a pin.'

why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life.

Forget about sects, forget about religion; neither has any power. Know Jesus, and even more importantly, let Him know YOU.

i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to.

You absolutely can. What you can't do is measure up to G-d's standard. Don't let that stop you from trying though ...

i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it.

This may well step on the toes of some believers here, but so be it. EVERY true Christian has done what you are asking about here! When you understand Christianity is G-d's way of extending the blessing of Abraham onto anyone that wants it, you realize that His Faith involved leaving everything his father had for him in a time when that left you with NOTHING. Please let that sink in.

 

[texastig]

but getting to the point... i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god?

It is logical that something cannot come from nothing. Somebody had to create it. That's the reason for "why god?"

and furthermore, why christianity?

Because Christ rose from the dead. He's the only historical religious figure that rose from the dead.

From Neil Simpson’s 4Simpsons blog.
Excerpt:

This is a summary of the “minimal facts” approach, which points to commonly held historical facts as evidence for the resurrection of Jesus and the truth of Christianity. Nearly 100% of historical scholars from 1975 – present agree with the following statements:

• Jesus really lived and was killed on a Roman cross.
• Jesus’ disciples believed He appeared to them.
• Jesus’ brother, James, went from being a pre-crucifixion skeptic to a post-crucificion church leader.
• The Apostle Paul believed Jesus appeared to him and he wrote most of the books attributed to him, including Romans, I & II Corinthians, Philemon and others.

75% of the same scholars agree that the tomb was empty.
I submit that the physical resurrection of Jesus best accounts for these facts.
​

i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life.

For me, I don't hold to any sects. My family and I go to home churches (no denominations) and we just follow Jesus. It's a relationship that is totally awesome!!!

i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldnt get too out of hand now could it?

I don't have any resentments against debates.

I do believe ChristianForums allows debates but not in this forum. I believe it's in the "Christian Apologetics Forum".

 

[GaryP]

You can believe any thing you what, Why would you be pressured with what christians
believe or not believe.
We all make god into our own image anyway,
I see one poster has a thing with gay marriage.
Others may point to the pope.
Humans like to argue and fight, ego thing.
I point to the Open Temple of the Father in Heaven.
It's open, Go in if you want.
You can go elsewhere in this forum to debate,
This is for simple questions.
Regarding what any one believes, we will know the milisecond we die.
Choices.

 

[salida]

1) start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why christianity?
Visit the website Reasonable Faith-Bill Craig is a great debater and started this site, in fact Richard Dawkins the famous athiest is afraid to debate him. You have to register but its worth it if your interested.

I suggest you research the credibility of the bible concerning overwhelming evidence which is very high even though it&#8217;s a spiritual decision first.
Visit: www.TheBibleProofBook.com, (you will need acrobat reader for this), read The Evidence That Demands A Verdict by Josh McDowell (its overwhelming circumstantial evidence of bible) and Examine the Evidence by Muncaster a former athiest/The Case for Christ by Lee Strobel a former athiest. Christiananswers.net, www.equip.org (articles), http://www.gotquestions.org/

2) i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life.
(same answer as #1)

3) i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to.
Christian concept, Are you a good person? www.livingwaters.com/good/

4) i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it (No, because I researched my belief even after I knew it was true spiritually. When I got the holy spirit its very difficult to deny it).

 

[salida]

Internal Evidence (prophesies confirmed within bible)
Life of Christ
The Tribe of Judah, Gen 49:10 - Luke 3:23-28
(Genesis was written 4004 BC to 1689 BC)
(Lukes time period 60-70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Royal Line of David, Jer 23:5 - Matt 1:1
(Jeremiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Born of a Virgin, Isaiah 7:14 - Matt 1:18-23
(Isaiah 760 to 698 BC)/(Matthew 60 - 70 AD)
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rise of Empires
In the book of Daniel, Chapter 2 - four kingdoms are described in the interpretation of a dream of
Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon: Babylon, Medo-Persia, Greek - Daniel 8:21, 10:20/and the fourth
great kingdom to follow- part iron and clay-which is the Roman Empire. During this empire Christ came and his church was established.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Accuracy
The bible is loaded with historical statements concerning events hundreds of years ago and has not
been proven incorrect in any.
(Bible compared to other ancient documents):
New Testament starts - at 25 years between original and first surviving copies
Homer - starts at 500 years
Demosthenes - at 1400 years
Plato - at 1200 years
Caesar - at 1000 years
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Number of Manuscript Copies-New Testament - 5,686/Homer - 643/Demosthenes - 200/
Plato - 7/Caesar -10
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Consistency/Written by God
Written by at least 40 men over a period of time exceeding 1400 years and has no internal inconsistencies.
It claims to be spoken by God, 2 Timothy 3:16-17. No other religious book makes such claim.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
External Evidences (prophesies outside bible)
These cities were prophesied to be destroyed and never built again.
Nineveh - Nahum 1:10, 3:7,15, Zephaniah 2:13-14
Babylon - Isaiah 13:1-22
Tyre - Ezekiel 26:1-28
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bible before Science- He hangs the earth on nothing-Job 26:7/Earth is a sphere-Isaiah 40:22
Air has weight-Job 28:25/Gravity-Job 26:7, Job 38:31-33/Winds blow in cyclones, Eccl 1:6
(Job was written at least 1000 years ago; some scholars think 3000 years ago)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Documents that Prove Bible is True
Gilgamesh Epic, The Sumerian King List, Mari Tablets, Babylonian Chronicles
Archeological Finds
Excavations of Ur, Location of Zoar, Ziggurats and the foundation of Tower of Babel

 

[oi_antz]

why god? and furthermore, why christianity?

A very simple fact we all attempt to acknowledge some time: without God there would nothing at all. Yet we know life exists and death exists. We don't know much about death until it happens, and we only know a pinch of life while we are experiencing it. We know once dead it stays dead (except when God puts the spirit back in the body), so we come to ask "where is this place we will spend all our days once dead".

There is a big story behind life as a human, it spans 6,000 earth years and is like a fleeting thought to The Lord. Once upon a time the human was 100% loyal to God. There was an act of disobedience which brought evil into the world. The only way to redeem the human He loves so much was to give them eternal life born of the spirit (baptized by Jesus, the spirit of Christ).

Let me know if you have questions around these comments

 

[Shawn7656]

well thank you for the replies. its hard for me to respond to everyone at the same time so ill just start posting with only one question and we can actually start having some good conversation without another garbled post

Q: (going off of the "why can you not wake up and just be good" question from earlier) ive always thought that Christianity makes it easy for us to take the blame off of ourselves when things go wrong, and to not take pride in our accomplishments as fully as we could. we seem to ask god to help us do something instead of just doing it. ive heard people ask god to "help them be a nice person" and i think that by doing that it seems when you fail to be nice to them, you can just throw it off to the side because maybe "god didnt want you to".
for the pride: you are entering in a race, and you really want to win, and it just so happens that you do. at the end of the race you exclaim "thank you god for helping me win this race". but why not congratulate yourself for all the hard work you put into training to win, and how it paid off. i know this seems like an odd thing to bring up, and i understand youre just showing appreciation but it seems as if you are taking away from the joy of winning the event if you feel that you didnt win alone.
..
when christian, you pray to god, and ask forgiveness, and he grants it. so to someone who takes the system a bit too far, they could feel its ok for them to continually kill someone because they pray and ask forgiveness right afterwards; which consequently would make them feel as if they arent doing anything wrong. i know this is an exploitation and not how god wouldve most like intended, but im sure it happens. this seems as though you can have even LOOSER morals than if you didnt have religion, as you would have to deal with the consequences no matter what.


side question though: is there a way to format the page so all posts in a thread use word wrap? i really dislike scrolling sideways

i guess my post is still messy. ive never been good at formulating lengthy posts logically, so bear with me lol

 

[oi_antz]

well thank you for the replies. its hard for me to respond to everyone at the same time so ill just start posting with only one question and we can actually start having some good conversation without another garbled post

when christian, you pray to god, and ask forgiveness, and he grants it. so to someone who takes the system a bit too far, they could feel its ok for them to continually kill someone because they pray and ask forgiveness right afterwards; which consequently would make them feel as if they arent doing anything wrong. i know this is an exploitation and not how god wouldve most like intended, but im sure it happens. this seems as though you can have even LOOSER morals than if you didnt have religion, as you would have to deal with the consequences no matter what.

There is some point of difference you haven't appreciated yet: Christianity is about having Jesus in your life to correct you from sin and to pave your path. Being Christian means you have fully accepted Jesus to be correct when He speaks, so anything you are about to do (like murder) would be quickly rebuked by Jesus and you would repent. Jesus is real you know, His spirit is alive today and He lives with His disciples every day, and we grow in Him.

Just want to make sure you know the difference between "a Christian who knows 'of' Jesus" and one that "truly knows Jesus".

 

[oi_antz]

Q: (going off of the "why can you not wake up and just be good" question from earlier) ive always thought that Christianity makes it easy for us to take the blame off of ourselves when things go wrong, and to not take pride in our accomplishments as fully as we could. we seem to ask god to help us do something instead of just doing it. ive heard people ask god to "help them be a nice person" and i think that by doing that it seems when you fail to be nice to them, you can just throw it off to the side because maybe "god didnt want you to".
for the pride: you are entering in a race, and you really want to win, and it just so happens that you do. at the end of the race you exclaim "thank you god for helping me win this race". but why not congratulate yourself for all the hard work you put into training to win, and how it paid off. i know this seems like an odd thing to bring up, and i understand youre just showing appreciation but it seems as if you are taking away from the joy of winning the event if you feel that you didnt win alone.

This is the disorder we are born with, we want to become God. That was the pitfall of Adam and Eve, once you can acknowledge that God is God and you are you, you are getting closer to discovering how much God truly loves you! - sounds weird aye, read it again, you don't know love until you know how to love the Lord!

 

[DoctorJosh]

im not really too sure if this breaks forum rules, or if im posting in the correct board or not. i dont want to question christianity as a religion nor do i want to denounce it in any way. i dont want to mock anyone or anything nor am i trying to "convert" you to anything.

"Challenging the existence of God or the validity of Christianity in these forums is prohibited." -rules

this seems to be something that MAY come up in this thread as discussion furthers in which case im not sure if this thread will get locked/deleted. i decided to come to a christian forum to ask "why god?". i chose to leave my religion as other so no one tries to reason with why i ask certain questions.

im going to ask a lot of questions now, only so the mods know where im going to be going with this thread so they can decide if its acceptable or not before i get into a conversation with someone.
...
but getting to the point... i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why christianity? i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life. i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "im going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to. i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it. i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldnt get too out of hand now could it?

dont feel like you need to answer all of the questions, just do as you see fit, or answer what you feel qualified to answer. if this thread survives, i will have a much better layout in my latter posts as opposed to this as im trying to lay it all out and didnt have a good plan on how to do so before i typed it out. if this thread gets deleted, i would greatly appreciate the mod sending me an email to a christian based forum that DOES allow for the questioning of the religion, as its what i intend to do, but moreso on a broader spectrum (going more towards the beliefs than the actual practice)

tl;dr questioning the belief in god, and the choosing of christianity over other religions. also wondering if this thread is "legal" on this site

(please dont see this as me spamming or flaming, ive been interested in religion and its been one of my major studies outside of school for the last three years)

You ask Why God? Why Christianity? For the most part I will speak on my own behalf to hopefully help you understand my perspective. Since I was a child I had wondered what created everything, how I was able to live and survive on this planet and why this planet and not the moon, why did I eat, drink and sleep. Some questions maybe some children wonder the same about. I was curious and wanted to know. However, growing up in a Christian family I had some answers from my parents that helped me a lot, but I still did my own research when I grew older. I accepted Jesus when I as very young, I had lost a grandfather and knew his soul would go somewhere, thus the thought of death and being a part of Jesus I wanted to live my life for Jesus.

So eventually I had my doubts, not bad ones, but I wanted more facts to keep me from doubting. I did research on every Religion I could find, none of them made any sense and none of their gods did anything for the people and never created a flood and saved mankind in the last moment. Then more and more evidence popped up, lost cities were found using the Bible as the key, names of Kings and Queens were found in tombs that were never documented anywhere else except in the Bible and in hieroglyphics. The two mentioned the same things happened with those rulers, when they ruled and what area they ruled over. I thought, wow, pretty hard to be a coincidence, so I looked further. The areas listed in the Bible did exist, the wars in the Bible did happen, the people that were named in the Bible did exist. The Bible's description of what events happened in their lives were also found in other writings and stone tablets and scrolls. Everything the BIble talked about was being backed up. Even the events which God did for the people. The most logical choice was Christianity, since not only does it now have 100,000 pieces of evidence backing it up, there are hundreds of ancient artifacts with writing on them that backs up the Bible more each time giving details, pictures, names and events that happened during those ancient times that only the Bible has talked about all this time. These artifacts are not just found in one area, but in many different Countries.

No other religion has anything that backs their religion up like Christianity does. A lot of other religions were based around a man who made himself a god to rule over the people, some were not very nice at all. Jesus never became king and never ruled over the people, but only walked among the people as a poor man, but proved He was the Son of God by His actions.
No other god has walked among the people as a poor man and did great things and never healed anyone, nor fed thousands and surely never gave their life for mankind. Jesus did. So the most logical choice is Jesus to choose above ever other religion.

So what backs Jesus up? Well there are several famous writers during that time that wrote about Jesus and they were not followers of Jesus either. They were concerned about what Jesus was doing. Even Pontius Pilate wrote about Jesus and what he had witnessed. That all of the writers during that time also included the events that happened on the day Jesus was Crucified. The sky grew dark, the ground shook and hundreds of people were healed in the crowd. These writers were not Christian during that time. It also mentions that the wife of Pontius Pilate wanted to see Jesus and have Him heal their son who was sick. Pilate refused. But his wife believed in Jesus.

There are also letters from different leaders of different Countries who also were concerned about Jesus and what Jesus was doing. The Temples in those areas also have letters of concern about Jesus and that He was seen as a threat to their religions. Jesus was doing more than anyone else did and was getting a large following. So again, more proof of Jesus brings light from those who were not Christians, but in fact saw Jesus as a threat, but their writings give light that those events did happen. Solid evidence.

So why God? Why Christianity? Because it is backed up with hard evidence, it is the most logical choice and the Bible has been proven to be True and Accurate about everything time and time again. Thus even more evidence is coming out every year.

Hope that helps answer your questions and brings some light on why Christianity was the most logical choice for those of us who are Christian.

And so I am a True Believer in Jesus and God the Father. Nothing could have existed without them, even some scientists who dig deeper who were not Christian are finding fear in what they find and are becoming Christian.

God Bless.

 

[DoctorJosh]

To add some evidence of my statement that some scientists who study deep into the unknown are finding their can only be one answer, God. Because for Nature to make up the complex DNA, the complex forms of life, the complex proteins found in plants and for each living organism and work in harmony with each other can only be done by God. Nothing in the Universe could have happened by accident. So read this article and see why scientists are finding God and Christianity the final answer.
'Mere Christianity' makes sense, scientist tells CS Lewis Foundation | Christian News on Christian Today

 

[servant of Merciful Love]

MOD HAT ON

MOVING TO 'EXPLORING CHRISTIANITY'

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[bling]

well thank you for the replies. its hard for me to respond to everyone at the same time so ill just start posting with only one question and we can actually start having some good conversation without another garbled post

Q: (going off of the "why can you not wake up and just be good" question from earlier) ive always thought that Christianity makes it easy for us to take the blame off of ourselves when things go wrong, and to not take pride in our accomplishments as fully as we could. we seem to ask god to help us do something instead of just doing it. ive heard people ask god to "help them be a nice person" and i think that by doing that it seems when you fail to be nice to them, you can just throw it off to the side because maybe "god didnt want you to".
for the pride: you are entering in a race, and you really want to win, and it just so happens that you do. at the end of the race you exclaim "thank you god for helping me win this race". but why not congratulate yourself for all the hard work you put into training to win, and how it paid off. i know this seems like an odd thing to bring up, and i understand youre just showing appreciation but it seems as if you are taking away from the joy of winning the event if you feel that you didnt win alone.
..
when christian, you pray to god, and ask forgiveness, and he grants it. so to someone who takes the system a bit too far, they could feel its ok for them to continually kill someone because they pray and ask forgiveness right afterwards; which consequently would make them feel as if they arent doing anything wrong. i know this is an exploitation and not how god wouldve most like intended, but im sure it happens. this seems as though you can have even LOOSER morals than if you didnt have religion, as you would have to deal with the consequences no matter what.


side question though: is there a way to format the page so all posts in a thread use word wrap? i really dislike scrolling sideways

i guess my post is still messy. ive never been good at formulating lengthy posts logically, so bear with me lol

Paul asks and answers the question in Romans 6:[/
1What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
2 By no means! We died to sin; how can we live in it any longer? 3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.

Forgiveness is not a one way transaction. Jesus explains this because the apostle asked how many times should you forgive a brother (the thought 7 times was enough)? Jesus tells them 70 times 7 (or as much as is needed really). The question on their heart but not said is the same as we all would ask (how do you keep from being taken advantage of by your brother?) Matt. 18: 21-35 explains in a parable much better than I could:
23Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. 25Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt.
26"The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' 27The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go.
28"But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. 29"His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' 30"But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. 31When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened.
32"Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. 33Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' 34In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed.
35"This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart."
The idea is you can forgive unconditionally and undeservingly (like the Master), but if the person receiving the forgiveness (thinks that have gotten away with it, believe they still owe it [I’ll pay you back when I get on my feet], think they are helping you out someway by taking the forgiveness, or lied to get forgiveness (stile it), then the forgiveness did not take place which is seen in them not Loving much (…he that is forgiven much will Love much…). The person has to accept the forgiveness in the manner it was given (charity), but people do not like to truly accept charity. The servant in the parable asked for “more time” to pay a trillion dollars back???? The forgiveness did not happen (because of the receiver and not the giver) so the servant still owes the debt. (that is a very brief explanation.

 

[Bryanfromiowa]

Q: (going off of the "why can you not wake up and just be good"

The bible lays down the ten commandments as our standard of what is "Good" it also teaches that on our own we cant live up these commandments. Yes we can "wake up and just be good" but if your standard is different from gods then you are doomed. That is why jesus died opn the cross to pay for our sins.

when christian, you pray to god, and ask forgiveness, and he grants it. so to someone who takes the system a bit too far, they could feel its ok for them to continually kill someone because they pray and ask forgiveness right afterwards; which consequently would make them feel as if they arent doing anything wrong.

The bible teaches two things first that it is possible to think one is saved and not be. 2nd is that if we are saved and have a relationship with jesus that we will still sin occassonaly but that the fruits of the spirit will be obvious in our lives. see the passages below


galations 5

19 The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies , and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

james 2

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if people claim to have faith but have no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, "Go in peace; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Christians aren't perfect we aren't sin free but our lives should be filled with love for those around us. someone who was killing or even just hating his fellow man would need to examine his heart and ask god if he is truly saved.


I'll end with this from mathew

[QUOTE 36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.'[b] 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'[c] 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."][/QUOTE]

 

[drich0150]

i would like to, obviously, start with the question of: why god? and furthermore, why Christianity? i want to know why you believe god exists and why you believe Christianity or following one of its sects are the correct way to go about living a religious life.

The very very short answer is because He said so.

i want to know why i cannot wake up and think "I'm going to be a good person" without feeling i should do it just because god wants me to.

Because "good" has nothing to do with being righteous or being acceptable before God.

i would like to know how many people questioned their religion before they took a firm hold of it.

Not only did i question it i rebelled even in the face of the answers I was looking for. (For a time)

i would like to know why people have such a resentment against religious debates and why a site such as this would outlaw questioning of Christianity when it is supposed to be the biggest Christian forum online, and seeing as the numbers are 1 against 250,000+ people the argument couldn't get too out of hand now could it?

It helps to separate those looking for answers, from those looking for a good fight. No one is running from a fight, but at the same time this is not what "we" are here for. If this site was only known for fighting then how could those truly looking for answers every find them especially if everyone was continually arguing.
Plus it helps you guys understand and accept the "Because I said so Argument."

dont feel like you need to answer all of the questions, just do as you see fit, or answer what you feel qualified to answer. if this thread survives, i will have a much better layout in my latter posts as opposed to this as I'm trying to lay it all out and didn't have a good plan on how to do so before i typed it out. if this thread gets deleted, i would greatly appreciate the mod sending me an email to a Christian based forum that DOES allow for the questioning of the religion, as its what i intend to do, but moreso on a broader spectrum (going more to wards the beliefs than the actual practice)

Ask questions don't make blasphemous assertions and it will be hard for your post to be deleted. (Make it at least look like your trying to understand) Good luck.

 

[drich0150]

Q: (going off of the "why can you not wake up and just be good" question from earlier) Ive always thought that Christianity makes it easy for us to take the blame off of ourselves when things go wrong, and to not take pride in our accomplishments as fully as we could. we seem to ask god to help us do something instead of just doing it. Ive heard people ask god to "help them be a nice person" and i think that by doing that it seems when you fail to be nice to them, you can just throw it off to the side because maybe "god didn't want you to".
for the pride: you are entering in a race, and you really want to win, and it just so happens that you do. at the end of the race you exclaim "thank you god for helping me win this race".

Up until this point you and the apostle Paul Kinda share a common point. 1Cor 9:


24Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. 25Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever. 26Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air. 27No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.

but why not congratulate yourself for all the hard work you put into training to win, and how it paid off. i know this seems like an odd thing to bring up, and i understand you're just showing appreciation but it seems as if you are taking away from the joy of winning the event if you feel that you didn't win alone.

Because to those who pray and worship (Love) God want to give Him the Glory for what He has blessed us with. Even if you think God does not care about such things as our petty competitions, very few would argue that something like a race could be won, if God didn't want you to win.

If you live with God long enough you will see blessings in things like this, and you will be thankful for them.

when Christian, you pray to god, and ask forgiveness, and he grants it. so to someone who takes the system a bit too far, they could feel its OK for them to continually kill someone because they pray and ask forgiveness right afterwords; which consequently would make them feel as if they aren't doing anything wrong. i know this is an exploitation and not how god would've most like intended, but I'm sure it happens. this seems as though you can have even LOOSER morals than if you didn't have religion, as you would have to deal with the consequences no matter what.

Do you think God is a fool? Do you think He is powerless to follow through with His will, because someone interprets the scriptures this way? even when the scriptures clearly state this type of activity is not consistent with one who loves God? What people like that fail to see is that a relationship with God is absolutely necessary for forgiveness, along with a willingness to forgive others. If you do not do have these things then you petitions for forgiveness go no higher than your ceiling.

When I say relationship. God has put in the rules and principles of a "relationship" with Him, somewhat built into the types of relationships we have with each other. So that no one can claim ignorance.

For example do you think you would be able to have and maintain a loving relationship with a girlfriend or wife if you were doing things she did not want you to do, and then quickly ask for forgiveness from her? Even if you could get away with it a few times do you think at the end of your life you would still be with her? I doubt your own mother could put up with 75 years of that. So, why would anyone think God would?
Lest you think Him a fool and/or He is somehow magically bound to a loop hole some who thinks that they are smart than Him has figured out.