You're right, how could I have missed this?Trump is pro Christian even if he hasn't as yet, that i know of, claimed to be a Christian himself. But I say he is...
welcome desperate immigrants, dehumanize no one and make sure no children are malnourished?.That's what the liberal media would have us believe. But remember, they are brainwashing us with their liberal ideology that is destroying our country.
Those who support this kind of thing are violating the Bible's command to obey man's laws..
Being 'Christian" is so much more than just saying it.You're right, how could I have missed this?
What with the bribes to adult film stars, the boasting about sexual assault, the insulting tweets making fun of women's appearances, the dog whistles to xenophobes and racists, and the attempts overthrow the democratic process,.... How is it not obvious that Mr Trump is indeed a Christian.
Come on, man.
and the attempts overthrow the democratic process,.... How is it not obvious that Mr Trump is indeed a Christian.
I have a lot of sympathy for what is in your post. However, I believe the uncomfortable truth is that Scripture teaches that Jesus is indeed the enthroned "political" leader of the world whether people accept it or not.
For example, through a cryptic statement made to Caiaphus, Jesus declares He will very shortly become King. Note what Jesus says to Caiaphus when the latter ask if He is “Christ” (this means “king”, although readers may dispute this):
"Are You the Christ, the Son of the Blessed One?" 62And Jesus said, "I am; and you shall see THE SON OF MAN SITTING AT THE RIGHT HAND OF POWER, and COMING WITH THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN."
The reference to sitting at the right hand of power comes from Psalm 110:
The LORD says to my Lord: "Sit at My right hand…”
The “coming with the clouds of heaven” statement is an allusion to this material from Daniel 7:
I kept looking
Until thrones were set up,
And the Ancient of Days took His seat;
His vesture was like white snow
And the (O)hair of His head like pure wool
His (P)throne was ablaze with flames,
………
"I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him
His dominion is an everlasting dominion
Which will not pass away;
And His kingdom is one
Which will not be destroyed.
From both these references, it is clear that Jesus intends Caiaphus to see Him (Jesus) in the role of the Son of Man figure who gets presented to the Ancient of Days (YHWH) and takes the other of the two thrones (note the multiplicity of thrones in the Daniel material).
Among the many rich implications of this passage we have this: In this scenario, YHWH gets seated (apart from what happens to the Son of Man figure). This is a clear allusion to the enthronement of YHWH, fulfilling the deeply held, and scripturally sustained, Jewish expectation that YHWH will, at some point, become King of all the world.
Is Jesus king over the earth? Yes - we have clear allusions to Jesus as one who, having already been seated, is now ruling over all nations and peoples.
And, I suggest, there are many other Biblical texts that teach, uncomfortable though it may be to accept, that Jesus is indeed a real "political" King. After all, in what sense would Jesus be a king if he were only ruling over our "inner lives" and not over the way we structure and operate our larger society?
Now then, let me state the obvious: even if we establish that Jesus is a true king and that we are called to participate in making that concrete in all spheres of human activity (and I believe we are called to do so), there is a further question: what are the values that we want enshrined in public life?
I cannot answer that definitively but one thing is clear: they are not, for the most part at least, the values of the American evangelical right. And it is equally obvious that the last person one would reasonably say represents Christlikeness is one Donald J. Trump.
Personally, I think God's ways are so much higher than ours, that to try to compare them at length to any human institution is futile. Does the bible say that Jesus is the King of Kings? Yes - but that is only to communicate his power and dominion in terms that we can understand. The manner in which God works and the structure by which He 'governs' (if you want to call it that) is so beyond us and so different from the human level of existence that it is unfathomable. We get to see glimpses and pieces of it from time to time, and sometimes our own part in it - but none of us get to see the big picture. And my guess is that the big picture looks vastly different than what any of us could imagine.
I suggest there is no scriptural basis for believing that the Kingdom of God is not an "earthly" kingdom. Look at the text I just presented - Jesus tells Caiaphus that he (Caiaphus) will live to see Jesus "coming on the clouds" - a clear reference to the Daniel 7 passage where the Son of Man (at term Jesus also used to describe Himself) is given, yes, an earthly kingdom:I am certainly in agreement with your last 2 sentences. But I still think you are conflating earthly kingdoms with the kingdom of God.
It seems to me that we may be in agreement. I trust you will agree that nothing I have posted endorses the kind efforts we see in the US, or even historically elsewhere, to bring "God into government". In fact, I have clearly stated I think American evangelicalism is off the rails.To clarify my position: It is not my belief that Christians should never bring their beliefs and God-centered values into the political sphere. Christians should remain guided by conscience and by the Spirit of God wherever they go. But battling to take over a government and declare it 'Christian'? Putting enormous effort and focus into declaring America to be a 'Christian' Nation? The fruits of such efforts speak for themselves.
I suggest there is no scriptural basis for believing that the Kingdom of God is not an "earthly" kingdom. Look at the text I just presented - Jesus tells Caiaphus that he (Caiaphus) will live to see Jesus "coming on the clouds" - a clear reference to the Daniel 7 passage where the Son of Man (at term Jesus also used to describe Himself) is given, yes, an earthly kingdom:
"I kept looking in the night visions,
And behold, with the clouds of heaven
One like a Son of Man was coming,
And He came up to the Ancient of Days
And was presented before Him.
And to Him was given dominion,
Glory and a kingdom,
That all the peoples, nations and men of every language
Might serve Him
How is this not clear - Jesus is telling Caiaphus about an imminent earthly kingdom! And there are many more texts like this. The Kingdom of God is not some mystical "internal" aspect of Christian experience - it is simply Jesus's Kingship over everything, including "the nations and the peoples".
Since I suspect you will bring it up, let me address Luke 17.
Some assert that a brief of teaching in Luke 17, particularly verse 21, locate the kingdom of God as “inside” the believer, with the implication that the broader world does not fall under its jurisdiction. Here are several translations of verse 21:
NET: nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”
NIV: nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is within you."
NASB: nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."
NLT: You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is among you."
MSG:Nor when someone says, 'Look here!' or, 'There it is!' And why? Because God's kingdom is already among you."
BBE: And men will not say, See, it is here! or, There! for the kingdom of God is among you.
NRSV: nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’ For, in fact, the kingdom of God is among you."
NKJV: "nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’ For indeed, the kingdom of God is within you."
Note how only 2 of these 8 translations render the last bit as “within you”. All the other translations have Jesus telling the listeners that the Kingdom is “in your midst” or “among you” – suggesting, of course, that the kingdom is “present right now”.
And the fatal blow to the “within you” interpretation arises from who Jesus is speaking to:
Now at one point the Pharisees asked Jesus when the kingdom of God was coming, so he answered, “The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed
If Jesus is saying that the “location” of the kingdom is specifically “within the human person”, Jesus is telling the Pharisees that the kingdom of God is within them, the Pharisees, in this sense.
Not likely, of course – the Pharisees were precisely the ones in whom the kingdom was not present.
It seems to me that we may be in agreement. I trust you will agree that nothing I have posted endorses the kind efforts we see in the US, or even historically elsewhere, to bring "God into government". In fact, I have clearly stated I think American evangelicalism is off the rails.
This is complicated and I do not have the time to express myself fully. So to summarize my position: I believe scripture teaches that we Christians are to work to enshrine "Kingdom of God" values in every sphere of human activity, including government. But we should do so in the setting of a democratic model. We can discuss what this would actually "look like", but I believe my summary (a) is consistent with Biblical teaching that the Kingdom of God is indeed an earthly kingdom; and (b) mandates that we use the instrumentality of democracy to attempt to implement Kingdom of God principles in our world.
It is totally lawless to allow STRANGERS into one's country who will rob, rape, and murder you and/or your fellow citizens, while violating the laws and the Constitution. We cannot sustain this level of lawlessness and remain a strong country. We cannot have just anyone entering our country.
can't say I disagreeWhat is it about the democratic process that is Christian?
Living by "the will of the people" is possibly one of the more satanic social models a society could have. Just take a look at its fruits.
I don't believe your stats. I check out any "information" someone gives out on the netsome studies have found that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes which result in jail time than natural born citizens:
I don't believe your stats. I check out any "information" someone gives out on the net
But even if illegals commit less crimes (I mean, AFTER the initial one of crashing the border), that is rather irrelevant in light of the fact
that
Again,
What part of ILLEGAL do people not understand?
Do we make laws in this country and then neglect to require that anyone abide by them (I mean, you know... besides the privileged elite)?
That makes a lot of sense..................
Hey, I know.. Don't like a law, work to change it
as opposed to violating it.
What is it about the democratic process that is Christian?
Living by "the will of the people" is possibly one of the more satanic social models a society could have. Just take a look at its fruits.
unless they are criminalsIf everybody is created in the image of God, everybody should get a say in how society is governed.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?