Some are not going to feel comfortable

[Avniel]

So I'm going to start off by saying we as brothers and sisters of Christ should be able to talk about anything and no hard or bad feelings should come from it.

So my wife and I are paying attention to the case of the black Florida teen that was shot by the night watch. We had a conversation that lead us to a deep side that a few people are taking it to. What do we teach our son about his reality of being black in America?

My thoughts were I would tell my son that he can not do everything he sees. The fact is I'm a law school student married and with a child I was pulled over because I have a charger with rims and tinted windows I was driving at night time with a hoodie over my head and I was pulled over. That is my sons reality to avoid trouble he shouldn't put rims on his car, he shouldn't wear hoodies in certain areas, he can't be in a car with 4 of his friends at night or he has a higher chance of being in a dangerous situation. The reality is my son is a black child in America and he can't walk around like there is no such thing as racial profiling. That is his reality.

My wife on the other hand she is more of an idealist. If he likes rims, if he wants to go out with his friends if he wants to dress a certain way he should this is America and he has rights.

Yeah I agree he should but just because someone should be able to or it's only fair that they are able to doesn't mean that the reality they live in is fair. Life isn't fair all persons living has to find away around it.

What do y'all think????

 

[Sailor_A]

I am not an American but I feel I can answer as I black person in the UK. I also heard about that case and the president's opinion on it. I agree with you that you have to be careful about what image you give to the world. There has to be a balance though. Getting pulled over or stopped for a check is not the same thing as being shot or targeted because you look like "trouble". At some point you even have to accept that no matter what you do, others will judge you because of your race or even likes.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

People in US culture (and all cultures, really) will judge people of all races based on clothes being worn, time of day driving around, and type and style of vehicle being driven.

Being discriminated against because a person is wearing a hoodie with a big rimmed, tint-windowed car in the middle of the night has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the likelihood that the occupants of said car are up to no good whether they be white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

I think in some ways you are confusing being "black" with "driving around with tinted windows in a car with huge rooms with multiple friends while wearing full hoodies in the middle of the night".

If I were you, I would tell your son that if he wants to be respected in the US, like it or not, he needs to act and dress a certain way. That certain way excludes the wearing of hoodies, driving pimped out cars with huge rims and tinted windows, and generally means not being out at all hours of the night (unless you are working late shift). And that same principle applies to everyone regardless of race. In fact, I will be telling my son the same thing.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

I think that case in Florida is even more interesting because the man who killed the teenager is Hispanic. So you have one underrepresented minority killing another underrepresented minority. From the 911 recordings the killing does seem somewhat racially motivated. Although maybe it was age discrimination more than racial discrimination. It's a tough situation to discern.

 

[SPB1987]

Well wearing your hoodie over your head while driving makes you look suspicious regardless of your race.

 

[SharonL]

I am not black so in a way cannot relate - but here is what I see. I'm from a small town in East Texas and I don't see all the racial problems, we all get along fine here. But I think things in the last few years have set us back regarding race - I am seeing a bigger and more dangerous divide now than I did.

I would tell my son you can do anything anyone else can and keep race out of it. That has kept some down by telling them they can't do things because they are black. I don't know if you watch Fox business or not, but I can't remember his name, but there is a large black man on there that I love to hear tell his background. A battle of the races and having to struggle - but he is a role model for every race.

The race thing has always broke my heart - I can honestly say I do not see color - I was telling my husband a story once and he just ask if it was a black man I was speaking about - and I honestly had to say I don't remember - I see a person's heart and not color. But I would build my son up to do whatever he wants to do with no barriers about race.

 

[Avniel]

People in US culture (and all cultures, really) will judge people of all races based on clothes being worn, time of day driving around, and type and style of vehicle being driven.

Being discriminated against because a person is wearing a hoodie with a big rimmed, tint-windowed car in the middle of the night has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the likelihood that the occupants of said car are up to no good whether they be white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

I think in some ways you are confusing being "black" with "driving around with tinted windows in a car with huge rooms with multiple friends while wearing full hoodies in the middle of the night".

If I were you, I would tell your son that if he wants to be respected in the US, like it or not, he needs to act and dress a certain way. That certain way excludes the wearing of hoodies, driving pimped out cars with huge rims and tinted windows, and generally means not being out at all hours of the night (unless you are working late shift). And that same principle applies to everyone regardless of race. In fact, I will be telling my son the same thing.

Actually if we take a look at the drug laws in america they are partially based on race. Then if we take a look at sentences given to convicted criminals, it seems that blacks and other people of color face harder sentences for crimes vs white convicted criminals. Not to mention the racial profiling epidemic are clearly represented by stats. Also are you familiar with a police unit in new york city called "the hip hop police" that follow rap artists no matter what their material is based on. Rappers such as Common, who by any means is your stereotypical "gangsta" rapper.

The facts point to a different case in america.

I disagree with you and the facts do also.

The reality is systematic racism is very much so alive. And particularly with young black men either they fall into the social norms of what the majority deem socially acceptable or they are considered deviants of society and targeted.

 

[Avniel]

I am not an American but I feel I can answer as I black person in the UK. I also heard about that case and the president's opinion on it. I agree with you that you have to be careful about what image you give to the world. There has to be a balance though. Getting pulled over or stopped for a check is not the same thing as being shot or targeted because you look like "trouble". At some point you even have to accept that no matter what you do, others will judge you because of your race or even likes.

I actually love the UK. My family is Jamaican and I am a first generation american. However I did notice while there that it was a more cultured and accepting place regarding race. Maybe that is due to a higher level of education among the people. I find people in the UK are generally more diverse, well traveled and well read.

Exactly if I'm on the train and I have a cold and I'm wearing a hoodie jordans and a nice watch....I automatically am a hoodlum, a street guy and a criminal. If its my friends birthday and we load up in a car five professional business men going to BBQ's in jeans and tshirts with snap backs on we automatically are pulled over for the car we drive. And your right it is a big difference for being shot for walking while black vs being stopped for driving while black. But the mentality is the same, the core cognitive reasoning is the exact same.

 

[Avniel]

I am not black so in a way cannot relate - but here is what I see. I'm from a small town in East Texas and I don't see all the racial problems, we all get along fine here. But I think things in the last few years have set us back regarding race - I am seeing a bigger and more dangerous divide now than I did.

I would tell my son you can do anything anyone else can and keep race out of it. That has kept some down by telling them they can't do things because they are black. I don't know if you watch Fox business or not, but I can't remember his name, but there is a large black man on there that I love to hear tell his background. A battle of the races and having to struggle - but he is a role model for every race.

The race thing has always broke my heart - I can honestly say I do not see color - I was telling my husband a story once and he just ask if it was a black man I was speaking about - and I honestly had to say I don't remember - I see a person's heart and not color. But I would build my son up to do whatever he wants to do with no barriers about race.

You are kinda on my wife's side of the argument, while I can't say your wrong but I can say its not a reality. The reason being is there are barriers that are very real. The fact is I can't dress the way I want, I can't live where I live and buy a BMW 7 series....I will become a target for the police no matter if I am wearing a hoodie or not, tinted windows or not. It is a reality.

Ideally it would be great if I could tell my son that but the truth is I can not. It wouldn't be the truth.

 

[Godsgirl79]

I think he should be able to do what he wants. If he gets pulled over, unless he is doing something wrong then he shouldn't have anything to worry about except deal with the aggravation of it.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

I disagree with you and the facts do also.

The reality is systematic racism is very much so alive. And particularly with young black men either they fall into the social norms of what the majority deem socially acceptable or they are considered deviants of society and targeted.

I'm not quite sure what you are disagreeing with me about. You seem to be disagreeing with something I did not say.

No where did I say that racism does not exist. What I did say is that all people regardless of race are discriminated against because of of the clothes they wear, the type and style of the cars they drive, and many many other non-racial factors.

Your last sentence is essentially repeating what I said except I would apply your statement to ALL people regardless of race. I would say: "people of any race either fall into social norms or what the majority deem socially acceptable or they are considered deviants of society and targeted."

Like it or not that is what our society is. It's fine to be rebel, but if by being a rebel people eye you with more suspicion, don't blame it on your race.

Actually if we take a look at the drug laws in america they are partially based on race. Then if we take a look at sentences given to convicted criminals, it seems that blacks and other people of color face harder sentences for crimes vs white convicted criminals. Not to mention the racial profiling epidemic are clearly represented by stats. Also are you familiar with a police unit in new york city called "the hip hop police" that follow rap artists no matter what their material is based on. Rappers such as Common, who by any means is your stereotypical "gangsta" rapper.

The facts point to a different case in america.

As a Libertarian I think we should do away with drug laws anyway. Do you have any evidence that drug laws are based on race because I have never heard that assertion?

It is true that blacks face harder sentences for the same crime as whites. This seems to be a case of prosecutors charging black criminals with crimes which carry heavier sentences than their white counterparts. This is racism in the criminal justice system. (source)

Males face a similar type of discrimination when compared to females in the criminal justice system.

 

[dallasapple]

I think your both right..on one hand he HAS every right to do the very same things any other person does thats white..but the reality IS HES at risk because HES black..So I dont like the idea of "conforming " to the racism though(restrictign your slef out of opression to be safe)..becaseu how will things ever change?but its not MY right to tell your son "do what you have the RIGHT to do " when hes the one that may end up hurt or even KILLED tryign to make a statement..

IOW arm him with the reality ..and the facts..including hes got the rights and what the reality is as far as the racial profiling ..then let him decide..

I do not envy you brother..becasue your right.it isnt fair..and its quite disheartening..

For what its worth wmen have similar issues..as far as havign "rights" to walk freely in certain areas..but hey are at EXTRA risk to be raped or mugged than a man ..becaseu they are women..they are more likley to to get charged mroe for thigns such as car reparis adn they dont get as good of deals on loans..etc..So do you do it anyway and pay the consequnces?Or do you make sure to brign a man with you for protection adn the best deal?

Not the same exact thing but its still completely unfair...So can stretch my mind and relate to the unfariness of it..

I guess being a black woman..must take the cake..

Dallas

 

[Godsgirl79]

That being said I wouldn't advise any teenager black or white to ride in a car like that with hoodies on head and tinted windows ESP at night. A black colleague of mine once educated me that a thug is a thug. You don't have to be black to be a thug. And someone who might come across as a thug which is a popular young male thing, might get pulled over a time or two. Sometimes it's color discrimination, but always.

 

[k450ofu3k-gh-5ipe]

That being said I wouldn't advise any teenager black or white to ride in a car like that with hoodies on head and tinted windows ESP at night. A black colleague of mine once educated me that a thug is a thug. You don't have to be black to be a thug. And someone who might come across as a thug which is a popular young male thing, might get pulled over a time or two. Sometimes it's color discrimination, but always.

That's exactly my point. If you dress like a thug, drive a thug car, and drive in the middle of the night like a thug, regardless of the color of your skin, you will get pulled over because thugs are up to no good and the cops know that.

If you are not a thug and you choose to dress and drive like a thug, be prepared for society and the police to profile you like a thug. Just don't whine that you got pulled over because the first thing I and others will say is "if you don't want to get pulled over, why are you dressed and driving like a thug?"

 

[Anessa14]

Godsgirl, you are naive.
I understand Avniel's question. DWB IS a issue; and it is a safety issue for most young black men in particular. Yes, he should be able to do what he wants, and dress the he wants, but the truth is, that will endanger his life.

Black people/African-Americans have lived with this reality way too long. You want to protect your children, you have to tell them the truth. And the truth ain't pretty at all.

White folks truth is don't talk to strangers, look both ways before you cross the street, be respectful to people in authority... black people have to add so much hateful legacy.

And it's hard to tell your beloved child that they should think twice about dressing the way their friends might, the way the videos show... but I also think that parents need to truly sit down and discuss some of these fashions. Sagged pants mean you're available for homosexual encounters in prison. One leg pulled up on the sweats means you have drugs to sell. Hoodies up mean you're tough, you're gang. A color of bandana or the way it's worn is a gang sign. Those silent signals of a criminal group--does your child even know the background? And if they do, is that what they choose to portray? Because it WILL make the police look twice, and it WILL cause people to judge them.

And if I choose to walk a sidewalk in a mini-mini, boots, big hair, 14lbs of makeup and such, would people judge me to be a prosititute? Probably.
"but, but" your children cry "it's the fashion." so what? Dress like a hooker or gangster, and you'll be treated as one.

and yes, Avniel, I believe you're wiser and I'm sorry for that. Protect your kids.
A

 

[gabrielle2012]

My husband drives a Charger with nice rims & tinted windows. Definitely not a thug car. It's a sexy car, though. When we met almost a decade ago, he had very long- like mid back long- hair & a full beard. He dressed like a biker & was treated like one when we traveled or went anywhere. We were searched at the Canadian border as well as in airports due to profiling. He started dressing better... Khakis, nice shirts and I cut his hair nice & short and changed the beard to a goatee. He looks respectable & is treated as such now. It really stinks that some people profile others that way. It's wrong! He's the same person!

I've watched as my kids have grown the difference in how our youth handle diversity as compared to my generation. It's a vast improvement, but still needs more improvement. The way our children act towards others depends on how they're raised. Our house is a safe space for any of our kids friends-- straight, gay, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, whatever... All are welcome here. I don't care if they're polka dotted or green. I too see the person, not the color or sexuality and that's how We taught the kids.

Our 12 year old son has gotten flack and called gay in school by a few kids because he wears his hair long & is a sharp dresser. He stands up to them and explains that fashion and homosexuality are not mutually exclusive. Most kids have no problem with how he dresses.

My prayer is that by the time your son needs to worry about such things, that they are a thing of the past. We ALL need to teach our children not to tolerate hate and to embrace diversity! That's the only way things will change.

Stepping off my soapbox now.

 

[dallasapple]

My prayer is that by the time your son needs to worry about such things, that they are a thing of the past.

Thats exactly what i was thinkign too..hes only an infant now..things ARE much better than they were even 20 years ago..so lets pray by the time this little guy is 20..what it is now.will be an extinct attitude..My chidlren too have been expsed to a LOT more diversity than I was ..of course Im 44 ...Anyway ..funny ..one of my sons is datng a black girl (we are whities by the way) and my 16 year old is dating a middle eastern girl of Muslim decent..and my oldest sons best friend is black hes also my grandbaby's God father and hes also "gasp" gay..YEP my grandbaby's God father ..is a black gay man...LOL!!..Im not laughing to poke fun..its just come on..we all need to grow up I think..

Dallas

 

[JaneFW]

People in US culture (and all cultures, really) will judge people of all races based on clothes being worn, time of day driving around, and type and style of vehicle being driven.

Being discriminated against because a person is wearing a hoodie with a big rimmed, tint-windowed car in the middle of the night has nothing to do with race. It has everything to do with the likelihood that the occupants of said car are up to no good whether they be white, black, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

The guy was on foot, was he not - just walking. I think you are wrong, Dsrohe. I think that some people have a perception that a black face under a hood is far more dangerous than a white face under a hood. If that had been a white face, I don't think he would have been shot. I have actually been following along with the story, and the fact that the guy was walking along, talking on the phone to his gf when someone walked up and challenged him, then shot him, speaks of racism very loud and clear and not "an accident".

Avniel, you are right to be concerned. It's a pretty horrible world we are living in when your skin color or your clothing or your car can instantly raise suspicion. It is a fact that the police do racial profiling. I mean, it's a given.

Is it only me that sees what is going on in the world? Like the guys who drove over the African American guy deliberately, after been heard for days before issuing racial epithets and threats. (Oh yeah, and nobody told the cops?) One guy has gotten a life sentence, and there are more people to be tried. What did that guy do wrong? Wear the wrong colored skin?

It's hateful. Disgusting.

 

[JaneFW]

Trayvon Martin, 17, died February 26. Police say he was shot by a neighborhood watch volunteer in Sanford, Florida, who said he was acting in self-defense. Martin was unarmed, carrying a bag of Skittles candy and an iced tea, according to police.

Very dangerous guy. Shoot on sight.

The case unfolded when Zimmerman, who was patrolling his gated community, saw Martin walking in the neighborhood. Zimmerman called 911 and reported what he described as a suspicious person. Moments later, several neighbors called the emergency number to report a commotion outside.


Police arrived to find Martin dead of a gunshot wound.

That's why idiots shouldn't be given guns. And also why the current "stand your ground" law in Florida is ridiculous, and in fact:

Since the law's adoption, the number of justifiable homicide rulings in Florida has nearly tripled, according to the state Department of Law Enforcement.

Well, duh. Sounds to me like a law intended to cause less hassle for the police. Police arrive to find black man died and white man standing over him. White man says "it was self defense". Cops say "no worries." End of case.

 

[jsimms615]

So I'm going to start off by saying we as brothers and sisters of Christ should be able to talk about anything and no hard or bad feelings should come from it.

So my wife and I are paying attention to the case of the black Florida teen that was shot by the night watch. We had a conversation that lead us to a deep side that a few people are taking it to. What do we teach our son about his reality of being black in America?

My thoughts were I would tell my son that he can not do everything he sees. The fact is I'm a law school student married and with a child I was pulled over because I have a charger with rims and tinted windows I was driving at night time with a hoodie over my head and I was pulled over. That is my sons reality to avoid trouble he shouldn't put rims on his car, he shouldn't wear hoodies in certain areas, he can't be in a car with 4 of his friends at night or he has a higher chance of being in a dangerous situation. The reality is my son is a black child in America and he can't walk around like there is no such thing as racial profiling. That is his reality.

My wife on the other hand she is more of an idealist. If he likes rims, if he wants to go out with his friends if he wants to dress a certain way he should this is America and he has rights.

Yeah I agree he should but just because someone should be able to or it's only fair that they are able to doesn't mean that the reality they live in is fair. Life isn't fair all persons living has to find away around it.

What do y'all think????

I think there such a thing as just cause and police or neighborhood watch people can't just go around shooting people who fit a certain profile