Solving the gay problem

[kit]

... Whosawhatsit?

<_<

Bonobos?

Sorry, Yes bonobos!

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Heterosexuals have problems that need solving, but being a heterosexual is not THE problem. No contradiction at all.

So how can being homosexual be a problem?

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

good job. After all the debate and discussion I have followed here at CF on this subject, one point is clear. Being homosexual is not the problem, it is the homosexual that participates in homosexual behavior (intercourse) that is the problem. This is where the Biblical sin comes into play.

....but not today.

See, the concurring opinion believes that being homosexual is a problem, and being heterosexual is not.

Homosexuals have their problems, as do Heterosexuals, and the concurrent believes that only homosexuals' problems should be solved.

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Being Gay is a problem, it's not normal.

I don't see lions or tigers being gay. I haven't seen male dogs mounting each other for pleasure, I have seen dogs however humping many things for pleasure, but I highly doubt it's gay, it's just their nature when in heat to do something like that.

Being Gay means not only you are sexually attracted to the same sex but you wish to live a life with them.

Reproduction cannot happen with 2 males, not without some serious genetic/surgical modifications. Nature - whether you believe in God or not proves that, and if you do believe in God, what has he said about it? Hence it's not normal

Thanks

Normal? Who are you to define normal?

How is being gay a problem?

And InsaneRecluse...I've worked with animals almost all my life, there are plenty of homosexual animals.

And Ok. My best friend of the same sex, looks amazing. I'm moving in with them in the fall, because we want to share a dorm room. I freqently tell em she looks amazing, and sure I want to share a life with them. We are both heterosexual. Is this "being gay?" By your definition it is.

If I asked God, he'd probably say "Homosexuals are my creation" which means.....He loves them! The only person who does not love them are the people that are so very against them. If they are wrong in their lifestyle, leave it to them, because you have no idea, no idea how much they risk each day. No one likes the homosexuals, except those Liberal Christians.

How could we be a better witness? Loving and caring for those homosexuals that are coming to our churches, or condemning them?

tbird

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Reproduction doesn't occur with two men ONLY proves that it's NOT MEANT TO BE.

If you tried to copulate with a giraffe, it wouldn't work would it? It's not normal, you won't get it pregnant, because of chromosomal problems, nature's way of saying "this isn't right"

If everyone turned gay...considering being gay is not a problem, if everyone did turn gay what would happen to the species? And no one wanted to mate with the opposite sex to procreate, keeping in mind this is a nature point of view. Then is it still not a problem?

Bah, I don't have time to argue this. I rest my case. It's not normal, I win. K? Thanks

So, if these two men are resting upon the whole "not meant to be" clause that you believe, you would say that their denial of all of their love for each other, the willingness to lay down their life for each other, simply because it's "not meant to be" is a good thing? Meanwhile, these homosexuals will find 'some girl' of whatever stature, to mate with so that they can reproduce.

Um. Are you gay? Then everyone's not turning gay! I'm not gay.

In history, people were not all heterosexual. There has never been a heterosexual influx to the point that everyone was heterosexual. What makes you think everyone's going to be homosexual?

You don't win. You claim to win because you don't know how to defend your opinion more. Hider.

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

Sorry guys for putting all these posts in a row. I must live in a different time zone. lol

 

[MorkandMindy]

From my research, Sykes claims that the Y-chromosome is intrinstically genetically unstable, and is both rapidly mutating and unable to repair genetic damage. However, it is not 'shrinking'. He believes that this property of the Y-chromosome will reduce male fertility by 99% in 125k years (assuming everything else remaining as it is).


1. Tautology.


Source?
2. If we have a gene that doesn't make vitamin C, then how can you say it makes vitamin C?


3. When did humanity have only one gender?


4. You believe in the Biblical Flood story?

Excellent points Wiccan_Child

1. Humans have every genetic defect in the book on genetic defects in humans. I'm into making pointless statements but I made this one accidentally, well spotted.

2. The vitamin C one sound a bit like being paid more to not grow wheat than to not grow oats, after all how can you prove which one you are not growing?

Well the gene has been located on many animals and it is defective in humans and a few closely related apes all with the same mutation, evidently all from a single source. The apes lived in Africa with lots of fresh fruit so the mutation was not selected against and cleared out of the gene pool and now we all have it.

Guinea pigs I believe also have a non functional gene for making vitamin C but the mutation is in a different place, evidently they don't share the same mutated ancestor. A portrait of a guinea pig wouldn't look right on my wall.

3. 'accidents and having only offspring of one gender have lead to the human race having a fairly small gene pool.'

I meant genetic lines were lost due not just to simple sterility or other reason for not reproducing, but by producing off spring of only one gender and therefore either specifically female genetics such as mitochondria or specifically male such as Y chromosomes have been lost until we are down to about the minimum.

'Male and Female created he them' Humans were hermaphrodite in the very ancient versions'

4. Yep, If it's in the Bible it's not optional. Noah's ark really wrecked things. God's short-sighted plan to wipe out evil may eventually wipe out us all.

 

[MrPirate]

Reproduction doesn't occur with two men ONLY proves that it's NOT MEANT TO BE.

Women who have survived uterine cancer do not reproduce.

Does that that mean it is all right to attack them?

If you tried to copulate with a giraffe, it wouldn't work would it? It's not normal, you won't get it pregnant, because of chromosomal problems, nature's way of saying "this isn't right"

Again would you say the same thing about infertile heterosexual couples….or is that somehow “different”?

If everyone turned gay...considering being gay is not a problem, if everyone did turn gay what would happen to the species? And no one wanted to mate with the opposite sex to procreate, keeping in mind this is a nature point of view. Then is it still not a problem?

And if everyone was a dentist…society would collapse…therefore being a dentist is bad.

Bah, I don't have time to argue this. I rest my case. It's not normal, I win. K? Thanks

Expressing your personal prejudices is not making a case

 

[MrPirate]

So how can being homosexual be a problem?

The same way being black is a “problem” for those who have chosen to be racists.

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

The same way being black is a “problem” for those who have chosen to be racists.

Ah yes...

...then you would say that for InsaneRecluse, being gay is a problem for him, because he's homophobic?

 

[ChristianCenturion]

Normal? Who are you to define normal?

How is being gay a problem?

Hmm... an act or what we do is "being"...
How is being anything a problem or for that matter, how is any act a problem?

We can outline this the most simple way if there is the basic knowledge lacking and we must start from the introduction to Christianity 101. I'll also comment that I make a distinction between a person possibly struggling against a sin, being tempted and one that embraces or the unrepentant continual sin. With the term 'gay', I don't find that fitting the first, but see it used as self-identifying with the latter. IOW - the term gay is used in the context that they practice, entertain, or otherwise follow the desires of same-gender sexual/romantic relations.

What does it record as Jesus Christ saying is the greatest commandment?

Matthew 22:36-38
36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment.

Please note here that Jesus doesn't say love the Lord your God with most, some, all-except, etc.

Then there is sin.
What is sin?
I have heard it said that sin is missing the mark. The mark being God's will, but here is something more detailed:

Excerpt~
Sin is "any want of conformity unto or transgression of the law of God" (1 John 3:4; Rom. 4:15), in the inward state and habit of the soul, as well as in the outward conduct of the life, whether by omission or commission (Rom. 6:12-17; 7:5-24). It is "not a mere violation of the law of our constitution, nor of the system of things, but an offence against a personal lawgiver and moral governor who vindicates his law with penalties...


Then there is the question of whether or not God created sexual content for mankind and whether or not there are perversions, boundaries, desires outside of His will or since we are made in His image - even against Him, etc.

God created man, created woman as a mate for man, man and wife is the constant throughout the Bible, never is it said same-gender sexual/romantic relations are God's creation or will and then there are the Judgments given by God on the homosexual acts.

So what could be the problem?
It might have something along the lines of Jesus was among us and preached repentance with the promise of forgiveness in His name, that the things of this world, this life must not replace God as the number one thing in our hearts, etc. Even the most basic consideration would see rejecting God's will, His Authority of what is right or wrong, refusing to repent and receive that forgiveness, etc. and even if it is "just one thing" does appear to be a "problem"- and an eternal one at that.

And InsaneRecluse...I've worked with animals almost all my life, there are plenty of homosexual animals.

Really?
I have my doubts that your comment involves talking to the animals like Dr. Dolittle and they tell you what their "sexual orientation" is and confirm that their behaviors are not just dominance acts or they understand what they are doing?
I also hope that you are not comparing a human being to a urge-driven and senseless beasts.
I'm also curious if you could you tell us all what instruction God gave to animals - of course being under the premise of they are also made in His image and are capable of choices in either worshiping or rejecting Him?

BTW - the term homosexual is a man-made term.

And Ok. My best friend of the same sex, looks amazing. I'm moving in with them in the fall, because we want to share a dorm room. I freqently tell em she looks amazing, and sure I want to share a life with them. We are both heterosexual. Is this "being gay?" By your definition it is.

A correct statement would be: by your inference, it is.

But you must have missed the "sexual" part of the other member's post.
That is unless your comment there about "looks amazing" included that you have a sexual desire for your friend.

If I asked God...

Umm... it might be best to actually do that before trying to 'speak for Him'. Please don't also forget to listen after asking - as in possibly where He does speak to us in His recorded instructions - given to us for our benefit.

You might also want to see if there is anything that talks about condemning those that are doing His will by preaching repentance with the promise of forgiveness through Jesus Christ and whether or not it is right or wrong to say that whatever people "feel" or "want" is superior to what God's will is.

 

[selfinflikted]

Hmm... an act or what we do is "being"...
How is being anything a problem or for that matter, how is any act a problem?

We can outline this the most simple way if there is the basic knowledge lacking and we must start from the introduction to Christianity 101. I'll also comment that I make a distinction between a person possibly struggling against a sin, being tempted and one that embraces or the unrepentant continual sin. With the term 'gay', I don't find that fitting the first, but see it used as self-identifying with the latter. IOW - the term gay is used in the context that they practice, entertain, or otherwise follow the desires of same-gender sexual/romantic relations.

No. If someone is attracted to members of the same sex - romantically, sexually - that makes them gay. Nothing more, nothing less.

<snipped for a bunch of useless stuff>...God created man, created woman as a mate for man, man and wife is the constant throughout the Bible, never is it said same-gender sexual/romantic relations are God's creation or will and then there are the Judgments given by God on the homosexual acts.

The bible is silent on many things in our world today. Does that mean that since something is excluded that it must be against god's will and/or sinful? What's your point?

So what could be the problem?... <snipped again>

The problem is, people (namely christians with nothing better to do) overly concern themselves with what their neighbor is doing, when in reality it has no bearing on their lives whatsoever. That is the problem.

Really?
I have my doubts that your comment involves talking to the animals like Dr. Dolittle and they tell you what their "sexual orientation" is and confirm that their behaviors are not just dominance acts or they understand what they are doing?
I also hope that you are not comparing a human being to a urge-driven and senseless beasts.
I'm also curious if you could you tell us all what instruction God gave to animals - of course being under the premise of they are also made in His image and are capable of choices in either worshiping or rejecting Him?

You may want to do a little research on this before a foot ends up in a mouth somewhere. There are in fact animals who form and maintain same sex relationships that last their entire lives. For example, some species of penguinare known to do this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html).

BTW - the term homosexual is a man-made term.

by the way, every term is a man-made term.

Umm... it might be best to actually do that before trying to 'speak for Him'.

Oh, the irony. /wrists

 

[ChristianCenturion]

No. If someone is attracted to members of the same sex - romantically, sexually - that makes them gay. Nothing more, nothing less.

I see actively gay homosexuals self-identifying their self as gay.
While at the same time, I see homosexual's that struggle against the temptation or are simply tempted are more mixed on what they refer to their selves as or simply don't call their self 'gay'.
I agree and respect with the latter - nothing more, nothing less.
BTW - nobody said you couldn't "insist" on speaking for all and demand that they are all gay. But I don't buy the self-appointment. Your assertion also doesn't account for a person struggling against a sin or tempted, but not giving into that temptation of X, isn't considered an X-er i.e. adultery, liar, murderer.

The bible is silent on many things in our world today. Does that mean that since something is excluded that it must be against god's will and/or sinful? What's your point?

Maybe a little less "snipping" and more reading instead of snipping out the points and asking what the point was.
Just a suggestion that would help remove wasted effort on both our parts.

The problem is, people (namely christians with nothing better to do) overly concern themselves with what their neighbor is doing, when in reality it has no bearing on their lives whatsoever. That is the problem.

Ah, the irony of being on a Christian forum and hearing that rhetoric line used.

If there were not gays and gay advocates wanting to convince people that what they do in alleged "privacy" wasn't so prevalent, maybe Christians would hardly even have to address the issue. But that isn't the case as everyone can see by all the threads and posts here in E&M or in our contemporary world.

So while attempting to claim that gays and gay advocates denouncing the Christians, the Christian's teachings, anything that hints of being non-supportive, making claims that there is no need for repentance is none of the Christian's business, etc., perhaps not trying to do so in such an obvious contradicting environment would fool the more naive.

You may want to do a little research on this before a foot ends up in a mouth somewhere. There are in fact animals who form and maintain same sex relationships that last their entire lives. For example, some species of penguinare known to do this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html).

What part of not reducing a human-being to an urge-driven beast wasn't understood. The projection used in that old story has been debated before.

by the way, every term is a man-made term.

Ah, got me there. I should have phrased that better.
How about... outside of Hedonism, the concept of sexual orientation is irrelevant to doing or not doing and can be abused when implied permanency is used.

Oh, the irony. /wrists

You must not distinguish a difference between just making stuff up and echoing what is already there.
And I would hope that you wouldn't / your wrists. With what I've read, with the username of selfinflikted, and with that unusual use there, etc. I just thought I would suggest not...

 

[selfinflikted]

Ed. at request of MODs.

 

[Robbie_James_Francis]

Being Gay is a problem, it's not normal.

Neither is living past 90. Involuntary euthanasia anyone?

I don't see lions or tigers being gay. I haven't seen male dogs mounting each other for pleasure, I have seen dogs however humping many things for pleasure, but I highly doubt it's gay, it's just their nature when in heat to do something like that.

Stop the presses! A 19 year old lacks anecdotal evidence from personal experience to verify homosexuality in non-human animals.

Obviously the scientists that have documented exclusive homosexuality in over 1,500 different species of non-human animals must be wrong.

Being Gay means not only you are sexually attracted to the same sex but you wish to live a life with them.

Interesting. Are you going to tell your celibate parish priest that he isn't straight because he's not seeking a relationship with a woman, or shall I? I'll tell him if you like, but you're going to have to break the news to Benny in the Vatican.

Reproduction cannot happen with 2 males, not without some serious genetic/surgical modifications. Nature - whether you believe in God or not proves that, and if you do believe in God, what has he said about it? Hence it's not normal

For the sake of our sanity and the continued ability of the human race to use grammatical and logical conventions, please refrain from using words like 'hence' when they are preceded by totally irrelevant points and followed by sweeping, unverified generalisations.

A woman cannot have children with an infertile man, and vice-versa. What else does this tell us about their relationship? Nothing. The computer you are looking at now is not 'natural', by the way. Does that have any bearing on your internet viewing's normality or morality? Of course not.

I'm not sure if this utterly nonsensical post is some postmodernist experiment in the deconstruction of logic and common sense, but if it is then you have succeeded in adding a bid of absurdism.

Now, back to the real world.

 

[MrPirate]

Ah yes...

...then you would say that for InsaneRecluse, being gay is a problem for him, because he's homophobic?

The “problem” is not being a member of a minority …the problem is with those who would discriminate against a minority based on their personal prejudices.

Being black is not a problem. Prejudice based on skin color is the problem.
Being Jewish is not a problem. Anti-Semitism is the problem
Being homosexual is not a problem. Hating gays and lesbians is the problem

 

[MrPirate]

No. If someone is attracted to members of the same sex - romantically, sexually - that makes them gay. Nothing more, nothing less.



The bible is silent on many things in our world today. Does that mean that since something is excluded that it must be against god's will and/or sinful? What's your point?



The problem is, people (namely christians with nothing better to do) overly concern themselves with what their neighbor is doing, when in reality it has no bearing on their lives whatsoever. That is the problem.



You may want to do a little research on this before a foot ends up in a mouth somewhere. There are in fact animals who form and maintain same sex relationships that last their entire lives. For example, some species of penguinare known to do this (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal.html).




by the way, every term is a man-made term.



Oh, the irony. /wrists

Excellent response

 

[tbird_energizerbunny]

All of this is in Regard to ChristianCentarian's responses.

First off, have you read all the other threads? Sometimes, what someone has posted really only makes sense and is taken correctly if all the other posts are read....with that said....I was asking the question to make a point. I was not asking the question itself for no reason, but because In the debate, I proved my point.

Secondly, why the whole sin "exposition"? This proves nothing. Off-topic.

About the animals, no I haven't actually talked to them in Dolittle form, but I've observed them. I've worked in a pet shop for about 2 years now, not because I want to pursue it as a career or anything, but because I really like working there. We didn't conduct "official" studies, but we've like experiemented. There is one dog, a pet monkey and a parakeet of some sorts, of all the breeds, that are homosexual. They naturally insist on "bothering" (to put it in that way) members of the same sex. it does happen.

I know homosexuality is a man-made term....did you think a giraffe made it up?

Abut the part with my friend, did you even read the post I was referring to? That makes it a little bit clearer. B/c the other poster, InsaneRecluse, said that homosexuality is the attraction of the same gender. Or something remarklably simular to that.

And in regard to asking God...I wasn't speaking for him. I'm just saying that's what he tells me, so in effect, I'm not speaking for him, I'm simply telling those around me, what he's told me. Big difference.

Your last paragraph, how was that relevent at all?

 

[rambot]

Bah, I don't have time to argue this. I rest my case. It's not normal, I win. K? Thanks

Dollars to donuts say this "guy" is younger than 17.

While at the same time, I see homosexual's that struggle against the temptation or are simply tempted are more mixed on what they refer to their selves as or simply don't call their self 'gay'.
I agree and respect with the latter - nothing more, nothing less.
BTW - nobody said you couldn't "insist" on speaking for all and demand that they are all gay. But I don't buy the self-appointment. Your assertion also doesn't account for a person struggling against a sin or tempted, but not giving into that temptation of X, isn't considered an X-er i.e. adultery, liar, murderer.

This WHOLE premise is based on the idea that homosexual CHOOSE that attraction. If you take away that premise, then your whole argument falls apart. Perhaps you are causing undue stress on these "gay" people you know.
If these people are consciously making a choice to be attracted to men (or they can SOMEHOW control it) then they are, straight up, not gay.

What part of not reducing a human-being to an urge-driven beast wasn't understood. The projection used in that old story has been debated before.

Your misconceptions about how nature works and man's place in nature aside, human beings get hungry and (when hungry), search out food. Is that an urge driven beast?
When a human gets attacked, there is an automatic response; when a human trips and tries to brace himself, THESE ARE URGES.
And don't try to draw lines between these actions; they are all linked. Humans need not be driven by urges but their nature dictates they must succumb to them.

 

[rambot]

and ps....my good friends brother had a pair of gay incestual cats.
And yes I did see them, you know what.