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Solomon did not write what is attributed to him

Discussion in 'Congregation-specific Ethics' started by Skitnik, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. Skitnik

    Skitnik New Member

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    Why Ecclesiastes is a part of the “Word of God”? Google around. Seems like no scholar believes that it was written by Solomon. Some say it was written about 300 years after he died. I am not a theologian but some of those who are say that it contains statements contradictory to Torah.

    It may sound like a totally blasphemous question to the “If it had to be in the Bible it would be there” crowd. What if something should not be there? Why words of some guy who misused his God’s given gift of wisdom should be part of the “Word of God”?

    I mean, seriously, some guy who violated direct prohibition by God to marry outside of Israel only about a thousand times, who built temples to all kinds to pagan gods of his wives, who (reportedly) slept around with every queen passing by (Queen of Sheba anyone) should write something that is even taken with any reverence at all? Queen of Sheba came to him to hear his God’s given wisdom and ended up with his baby. Now there is the way to use God’s gift! To get laid! The way I see it he took his God’s given gift of wisdom and turned it into foolishness! Some palace dwelling playboy who is doing nothing but having sex and building temples to pagan gods. Not driven by wisdom given to him by God but by lust of his eyes and his flesh. Yes, he wrote few books. Let’s call them “books by Shlomo the royal playboy” and not include them in the “Word of God”.

    His books sound like they are filled with wisdom but how about “by their fruits you will recognize them” (Matthew 7:16)? Did he send any of his foreign wives away? Did he destroy any temples to pagan gods? He did not. His heart was not even “wholly devoted to God” (1 Kings 11:4). Talking the talk and not walking the walk!

    Yes, Solomon built the Temple to God and that was the biggest and the best one he built but I thought that this not how it works before God. One big good deed does not excuse many smaller bad ones. He built temples for (probably) every other known “god” of his wives.

    Lord has spoken to Solomon twice and had commanded him concerning these things that he should not go after other gods (1 Kings 11:9-11) yet he clearly ignored even that! Was he even saved at the end? Are there any scriptures indicating that he returned to God and salvation? I do not know of any. Yes he “Slept with his fathers” (1 Kings 11:43) but so did the wicked king Ahab (1 Kings 22:40)

    Now, let us examine what is, what we now call the Bible. Word of God is part of it; four books written by Moses. Debated is the fact that he also wrote the book of Job. Then the rest are words of prophets, words of kings (David, Solomon), historical books….

    How about New Testaments? Writings of men who walked with Jesus, second hand accounts by Luke, physician of Peter. Descriptions of acts of the apostles and letters written by one pastor to another probably never intended to become any kind of “Word of God”. Yes “All scripture is divinely inspired” (2 Timothy 3:16-17) but what did he call “scripture” at the time he said that? He said that “From childhood you were taught scripture” (2 Timothy 3:15) clearly he was not talking about his own writings, did he? I think he could have never even guessed that his writings would be regarded as “scripture” someday too. Allow me to say something totally outrageous. He was not even talking about New Testament at all. Clearly it was not written during or before his childhood. As for Kohelet… being “rabbi and son of rabbis” he may not have even considered it to be part of the “scripture” knowing its very questionable source.

    Oh then there is a whole topic of Constantine. Pagan Emperor who corrupted Christianity, “The Way” into the state owned and operated religion. He got to decide what is in the Bible and what is not. Why? To this day so many worship him as if he is some kind of minor deity who knew exactly what is and what is not to be in the Bible. Book on Enoch for example: Jude quoted from Enoch in Jude 1:14 but all knowing pagan Constantine overruled him and threw Book of Enoch out. Few other books suffered the same fate. Book of Jasher is quoted extensively from in 2 Samuel 1:18 and also mentioned in Joshua 10:13. … and some others mentioned in canonized Bible but not included in it.

    Constantine commanded first 50 “official” Bibles to we written and distributed to churches. He later presided over council of bishops who compiled and approved what we know as a Canonized Bible. What surprise that Constantine version of the bible was it? There were and still are other Cannons. Coptic Cannon includes more books then the one we are so used to reading.

    Now days I have met some Christians that are just about literally ready to fall on the floor in convulsions and start foaming at the mouth just from mere mentioning anything written outside of the Bible they know. “If it had to be in the Bible it would be there” they say as they contort. Why? “Holy Constantine” say so? Constantine worshipers.

    My main point is though. I see many Christians more or less worshipping the Bible as if it is an idol of some sort. Bible is not the destination it is a guide. Perfectly compiled, completed and preserved or missing a few spots, endless studies of it are no more fruitful then endlessly studying treasure map and never getting out there to find The Treasure. What were all the people of Old Testament before Moses doing without “Bible studies”? It is nice to have them but counter-productive to the Faith to only have them. Abraham was called “friend of God” (2 Chronicles 20:7 and James 2:23). God does not change, He is the same yesterday, today and forever (Hebrews 13:8). Why not seek to be God’s friend and not a theologian. Second is not a requirement for the first even though many want you to believe that.

    My heart hurts watching so many good hearted Christians in their zeal for God building a wall between themselves and God and calling that wall a Bible! Horrible statement is it not? Enemy loves watching people go to the Christian version of a “Wailing Wall”, pound their heads on it in prayer and insert their prayers into cracks between the stones. That is how far those prayers go to be removed into garbage by custodians of the wall to make room for more prayers the next day.

    By the way. Wailing Wall is a foundation of Roman fortress and not of the Jewish temple or Jesus is a liar, Matthew 24:2. It must be one of the “entertainment centers” for demons. Watching endless parade of people seeking God in pounding their heads on the wall built by people who destroyed the temple of God and crucified Jesus. Just a demonic version of “sense of humor”. Sick, twisted and sadistic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2018
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  2. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Solomon was punished for his wifes , his kingdom went to ruin when he passed it to his son . It just shows that God's wisdom is not enought . You can have wisdom but still choose to do wrong things .
    These people of OT were not sealed with Holy Spirit so thier punishment is less than us who choose to do wrong while having God living inside of us if you think about that . We also know more Scriptures than they did back them simply because Scriptures were not written fully .

    About building wall around us , Paul told us to do so in New Testament.
    2 Corinthians 6
    14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?

    15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?

    16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
     
  3. Skitnik

    Skitnik New Member

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    So, why words of somebody who rebelled against God, was punished by God, likely died as an apostate are called to be the "Word of God"?

    That is on top of being contradictory to Torah (according to some theologians) and not even written by Solomon at all (according to most scholars).
     
  4. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Solomon was king not prophet I believe . He gave us proverbs with wisdom from God but that does not mean he followed them himself . Nobody was sinless anyways .
     
  5. Skitnik

    Skitnik New Member

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    He also used wisdom given to him to get laid (Quinn of Sheba) and did not even write those proverbs.
     
  6. Chinchilla

    Chinchilla Well-Known Member

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    Proverbs 1:1
    The proverbs of Solomon the son of David, king of Israel;
     
  7. Skitnik

    Skitnik New Member

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    Most scholars will disagree with you
    Just Google around. "Who wrote Ecclesiastes".

    Authorship of Ecclesiastes
     
  8. Desires Light

    Desires Light Refreshingly different.

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    "Foaming at the mouth" That's funny to imagine.
     
  9. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That's a very harsh judgment of Solomon. In the Christian and Jewish traditions he is generally remembered as a good, but flawed king. Everybody in the OT is generally flawed in some way.

    Most scholars don't think Ecclessiastes was written by Solomon, but that has nothing to do with why it is retained in the canon.
     
  10. david shelby

    david shelby Member

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    Ecclesiastes is my favorite book. I don't think it was written by Solomon though. It does open with a claim that the author was king in Jerusalem, and richer than those before him. But that could just as well mean Hezekiah to me.
     
  11. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Most modern scholars doubt the attribution to almost every book of the bible, so why should you trust in them? According to some, the bible is nothing more than an evolved Mesopotamian myth...
     
  12. Kate30

    Kate30 Active Member

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    Why is the book of Ecclesiastes in the bible. Simply because it were attested to as truth from learned people of that time, just as the early church discerned what was truth for the New Testament and what was not. As to King Solomon he was much loved by God. Yes his failings were many. But has sin evolved any for the better since his time that makes us any better. No it hasn’t. As to Constantine. Much has been said about his influence apon the bible . But in reality he was more interested in stabilising the empire which also included Christianity as the new religion of the empire. And that included what the church believed. The Arian doctrine had to be addressed at that time with what the church believed. Trinity or no trinity. Arius was soundly defeated at the council. Constantine merely gave his approval of the empires new religion. He had no influence on what the church believed and decided as Holy scripture. Skitnik some books are quoted in the bible such as the book of Jasher . But dosent mean they were accepted as the word of God. Seems to me that you will except everthing else but the actual bible.
     
  13. Robert6671

    Robert6671 New Member

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    Okay first off I went over my bible Scripture does not say either yes or no on the matter on whether Solomon fathered a child with the queen of Sheba or even that he was intimate with here. Things like that are like the story of Lilith and purgatory there assumed and yes Solomon sinned later in life but it does not take away what he did at the beginning. As he got older like many men he started thinking with something other than his brain.
     
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