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Sola Scripturists guide on the authority of the Bible

Hentenza

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I posted a over 11 verses in my post 308 and you have addressed one which I counter addressed. You are far from addressing my post 308.

EDIT: I apologize for that tone, it was unnecessary.

Apology accepted.

Nope, not at all!

Then what is the problem? Silas and Barnabas never defended their apostleship. They never claimed to hold the office of apostle nor did they pretend to have the same authority as the 12 and Paul. The were sent by the authority of the 12 and Paul with the message of the gospel. In a sense, most evangelists have the gift of apostleship just not the office.
 
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Standing Up

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This is one I've answered many times before

homoousios is not to be found in the Bible

When they met at council they voted on what the church had always taught.

That was my question. What Tradition taught it? Did Barnabas, didache, irenaeus, what? Someone mentioned spurgeon, but he's a little later

I suspect Arius pulled out scripture like satan, without understanding the whole of scripture. IOW, he cited Father is greater than the Son, without understanding the context of servanthood.
 
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Ortho_Cat

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No since neither was chosen by Christ. Both fit the criteria for the gift of apostle (1 Cor. 12:28) not the office of apostle.

28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.



Yes, and your point? I see no distinction here between "an office" and "a gift". This sounds more like a desperate attempt to cling to man-made traditions in the face of overwhelming scriptural evidence to the contrary. Too bad Paul and Luke (among others) disagree with you on what the criteria for what an apostle is.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Debunked and annihilaition are 2 different things. Both of those ideas are alive and taught today.
Of course, it is said that there are no new heresies...

That topic is alive mainly on the UT board of CF

http://www.christianforums.com/t7488091/
Annihilationism resources

snip OP:
Looking to learn more about annihilationism (as in annihilation versus eternal torment)
I've been to tentmaker.org and alsp heard some of edward fudges expositions. I'm looking for an in-depth resource on the study of the biblical words such as "eternal" and "for ever and ever"...........

Annihilationism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Annihilationist)

In Christianity, annihilationism is the belief that sinners are destroyed, rather than tormented forever in "hell" as in the lake of fire. It is directly related to the doctrine of conditional immortality, the idea that a human soul is not immortal unless it is given eternal life. Annihilationism asserts that God will eventually destroy or annihilate the wicked, leaving only the righteous to live on in immortality.
 
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Ortho_Cat

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Ah, sleight of hand tricks now I see. Of course they didn't claim it themselves, at least not verbally in scripture, Paul clearly did that for them! I suggest you refer to the verses in post #326 again, that should clear things up.
 
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ivebeenshown

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That's where I was going too... never seen the phrases 'office of Apostle' or 'gift of Apostle' anywhere in the scriptures.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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Ah, sleight of hand tricks now I see. Of course they didn't claim it themselves, at least not verbally in scripture, Paul clearly did that for them! I suggest you refer to the verses in post #326 again, that should clear things up.
Would that be the same as being "slick"

Slick | Define Slick at Dictionary.com
—Synonyms
3. wily, tricky, foxy, sharp.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7411153-42/#post53271205
Slick move by the Pope to attract Anglicans
 
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Standing Up

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Ah, sleight of hand tricks now I see. Of course they didn't claim it themselves, at least not verbally in scripture, Paul clearly did that for them! I suggest you refer to the verses in post #326 again, that should clear things up.

Vines:
Apostle, Apostleship:
is, lit., "one sent forth" (apo, "from," stello, "to send"). "The word is used of the Lord Jesus to describe His relation to God, Hbr 3:1; see Jhn 17:3. The twelve disciples chosen by the Lord for special training were so called, Luk 6:13; 9:10. Paul, though he had seen the Lord Jesus, 1Cr 9:1; 15:8, had not 'companied with' the Twelve 'all the time' of His earthly ministry, and hence was not eligible for a place among them, according to Peter's description of the necessary qualifications, Act 1:22. Paul was commissioned directly, by the Lord Himself, after His Ascension, to carry the Gospel to the Gentiles.
"The word has also a wider reference. In Act 14:4, 14, it is used of Barnabas as well as of Paul; in Rom 16:7 of Andronicus and Junias. In 2Cr 8:23 (RV, margin) two unnamed brethren are called 'apostles of the churches;' in Phl 2:25 (RV, margin) Epaphroditus is referred to as 'your apostle.' It is used in 1Th 2:6 of Paul, Silas and Timothy, to define their relation to Christ." *
[* From Notes on Thessalonians, by Hogg and Vine, pp. 59-60.]
Rev. 21:14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

There are 12, yet others will claim it.

Rev. 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

But what's your point? That a bishop is the same as an apostle?
 
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Montalban

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You've just undermined your entire position!

You've argued here that NO TRADITION taught the heresy, but the heresy was pulled from the Bible.

I would totally agree with you. Tradition is what guaranteed the correct use of the Bible

Welcome brother StandingUp!
 
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Standing Up

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Slow down brother Montalban. You may be confusing people here, as well as confusing me for someone else.

Arius did use some scripture to try to prove his point. Others used scripture to prove theirs. An impasse? Or was there some tradition that they pointed to?

All I'm wondering is what tradition was used to prove the creed? I don't know. But, I've already said that Arius was like the devil in quoting scripture---it is written---but Jesus replied---it is written. Jesus obviously knew the full counsel of God, not just the pick and choose, one liner.

So, in my mind, the controversy was still solved by the ---it is written--- rule of faith. I'm just wondering what tradition, if any, did either side point to to buttress their position?

PS, as I've also mentioned I do acknowledge tradition, as long as that tradition ties back to an apostle (like Polycarp's apostolic tradition versus Sixtus I's/Anicetus/the church's custom). That was Irenaeus' position as well as Tertullian's. So, sola scriptura (SS) and TTA (tradition tied to apostle), which is to say really, that at this stage of our history, we have scripture alone.
 
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Montalban

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Slow down brother Montalban. You may be confusing people here, as well as confusing me for someone else.

I accept what you wrote. Great rebuttal of SS!

Arius pulled Scripture to back him up.

Tradition guaranteed the right interpretation
 
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CaliforniaJosiah

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Tradition guaranteed the right interpretation

You know, if this thread was about hermeneutics instead of norming, I would have given a big "AMEN" to your post.

But as the rule - I find that self looking to self is not a sound rule in evaluating if self is correct in what self says.





.
 
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sunlover1

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I accept what you wrote. Great rebuttal of SS!

Arius pulled Scripture to back him up.

Tradition guaranteed the right interpretation
You're misrepresenting SUp
Interesting.
Did you think that the rest of us can't read?
Or are ya just having some fun on a boring Tuesday eve?
I am all for having some fun too!
We're sort of grounded in my part of the country.
(Weather related) so.. this IS my fun...
 
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T

Thekla

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This might help:

(I deliberately quoted the portion which includes Justin Martyr and Trypho, as it helps to demonstrate 'received' vs. 'reasoned/inferred' understanding in the Christian Tradition.)
THE LORD YAHWEH OF GLORY IN THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENTS Part 2
 
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T

Thekla

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Doesn't work with Arius (or the Eunomians). Or with what was received before the NT was widely available, yet core belief was already consistent.

Again, it treats Scripture with undue authority vis a vis Christ.

But also, it wrests Scripture (and doctrine) away from the life lived in "the Way".
 
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Ortho_Cat

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My point is that the first bishops were appointed by and succeeded the apostles, and that this succession continues today.
 
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Hentenza

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28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues.


The verse is talking about gifts not the office. Try again.



Yes there is a big distinction. Show me where Paul and Luke disagree.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You never read this, I know, but give it a shot. I highlighted in bold, blue font the part that you are ignorant about.

The Rule of Scripture in Norming (What Luther and Calvin called "Sola Scriptura").......<snip>
- Josiah .
I think we should make that a sticky on GT as you posted the same thing in another thread

http://www.christianforums.com/t7541281/#post57042186

Patience is a gift of mine.

I'd do it:

The Rule of Scripture in Norming (What Luther and Calvin called "Sola Scriptura")
 
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