Sola Scriptura cannot be what Christ wanted. The Bible was given by the authority of the Catholic Church. We should not follow the bible ALONE but also the teachings of the Church.
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Sola Scriptura
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Schroeder
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this topic is found else where so you may not get much of a response. Well seeing how the new testement wasnt around i dont see your point of Christ not wanting it that way. The Church or your thinking of a denom. would have the same issue. Why do you asssume they get it right are they not just like you or me. they are not devine either. read scripture and p[ray in the Spirit to help you interperate it. you can listen to other views and study them all out and decide which most fits the scriptures. The Church is ALL christians who profess Christ as lord. not ONE organized church or denom. ALl yo have to do is look at these church histories they certanly did not act out there beliefs or look devine They all had there major errors which should tell you that there interpretations are not always correct.
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daveleau
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Well, the Catholic Church as a formal organization did not exist until well after the Canon was decided by the saints. Members that became/formed/were precursors to the Catholic Church took part in the decision of the Canon. The Canon was decided by the whole of bishops across Christendom, and each bishop originally had their own canon that differed slightly between cities. Now, this is not an attempt to subvert the Catholic belief of Apostolic succession (an unnecessary claim by any church, IMO, that I don't intend to tackle here), but simply a statement that the Catholic Church could not have given the Canon if they did not exist until afterwards.
I do believe wholeheartedly Scripture should be the sole source of theology, because man is flawed. Anything that is not flawed should be added to the Bible, yet that has not been done. Paul tells the Corinthians (1 Cor 4:5-6) to not exceed what has been written. And, the Catholic Church, while having done many superb things for God throughout history, has several very dark periods where corruption and greed overwraught the good done by the Catholic Church. I never stand against the Catholic Church for the sake of standing against them, because Catholics are my brothers and sisters. But, the history of the Catholic Church shows nothing more perfect than the history of the Protestant churches, Orthodox churches, and all other organizations set up by man for God. I believe everything should be held up to Scripture, and if it is contrary, then it should not be conducted. While Baptists (my church) have a few things that I believe are contrary to Scripture, the Catholic Church has the same issue. All churches do. I thank God that we do not have to be perfect to be saved, otherwise, no one would be.
Now, many think Sola Scriptura is the idea that no other outside materials can be used. This is not the way I view it, and I believe outside works of men can be used to understand Scripture, but not to set theology. Outside works being used for theology is a dangerous precedent that can lead to eisegesis rather than understanding God's Word for what it is. This is the sort of thing that always lead to incorrect theology, which is evident by many groups throughout history- some considered to be Christian and some considered to be something other than Christian. (I believe the Catholic Church is part of the former, and is fully Christian, so please don't misunderstand this. I am not saying the Catholic Church is anything but Christian, which is sadly an idea many have.
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I do believe wholeheartedly Scripture should be the sole source of theology, because man is flawed. Anything that is not flawed should be added to the Bible, yet that has not been done. Paul tells the Corinthians (1 Cor 4:5-6) to not exceed what has been written. And, the Catholic Church, while having done many superb things for God throughout history, has several very dark periods where corruption and greed overwraught the good done by the Catholic Church. I never stand against the Catholic Church for the sake of standing against them, because Catholics are my brothers and sisters. But, the history of the Catholic Church shows nothing more perfect than the history of the Protestant churches, Orthodox churches, and all other organizations set up by man for God. I believe everything should be held up to Scripture, and if it is contrary, then it should not be conducted. While Baptists (my church) have a few things that I believe are contrary to Scripture, the Catholic Church has the same issue. All churches do. I thank God that we do not have to be perfect to be saved, otherwise, no one would be.
Now, many think Sola Scriptura is the idea that no other outside materials can be used. This is not the way I view it, and I believe outside works of men can be used to understand Scripture, but not to set theology. Outside works being used for theology is a dangerous precedent that can lead to eisegesis rather than understanding God's Word for what it is. This is the sort of thing that always lead to incorrect theology, which is evident by many groups throughout history- some considered to be Christian and some considered to be something other than Christian. (I believe the Catholic Church is part of the former, and is fully Christian, so please don't misunderstand this. I am not saying the Catholic Church is anything but Christian, which is sadly an idea many have.
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And now for two cents from an Anglican
Scripture should work together with Tradition and Reason
Scripture should work together with Tradition and Reason
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daveleau
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But, tradition and reason should not contradict Scripture, though. That's my take from my time in the Episcopal church. (I know Anglican and Episcopalian are related, but NOT the same, but I have never been to an Anglican church.) When tradiion or reason contradicts Scripture, it is to bow to the authority of Scripture.
For instance, it stands to reason that the earth was not created in 6 literal days to some people, and that is not something contrary to Scripture, since the word could mean day or age. But, tradition says that it was 6 days. While Scripture never changes, tradition and reason are often found wanting. Every church's tradition changes, despite the Bible's consistency...hence the reason for Sola Scriptura. (I am not dogmatic about the way God created the Earth, but dogmatic that God is the Creator. I am merely using this to illustrate that tradition and reason are fallible, while Scripture is not.)
) When tradiion or reason contradicts Scripture, it is to bow to the authority of Scripture.For instance, it stands to reason that the earth was not created in 6 literal days to some people, and that is not something contrary to Scripture, since the word could mean day or age. But, tradition says that it was 6 days. While Scripture never changes, tradition and reason are often found wanting. Every church's tradition changes, despite the Bible's consistency...hence the reason for Sola Scriptura. (I am not dogmatic about the way God created the Earth, but dogmatic that God is the Creator. I am merely using this to illustrate that tradition and reason are fallible, while Scripture is not.)
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The Catholic Church is the only Church that has been around since Christ-all other sects are break-offs. Sola Scriptura is a heretical belief that came up around 1500. My point is the authority of the Roman Catholic Church, that is the Bishops whose successors reside in the Catholic Church, decided the Canon on the authority they received from Christ. They use that same authority today to denounce the doctrine of Sola Scriptura. SHOW MW WHERE SOLA SCRIPTURA IS AN THE BIBLE!!!
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I hate to be a stickler, but the Roman Catholic Church is equal in age with the Eastern Orthodox Churches.
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daveleau
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My friend, and brother in Christ. No need to yell. The word Trinity is nowhere in the Bible.
The word "Bible" is nowhere in the Bible.
More importantly, the idea of following tradition is nowhere in the Bible. Actually, this idea of following tradition is spoken about at length in the Gospels in a highly negative light as the Pharisees attempted to follow tradition rather than Scripture.
As for the idea of Sola Scriptura, it is supported by Scripture when Paul wrote 1 Cor 4:4-6. It is also supported by Jesus when He quoted only Scripture and never supported the traditions of man.
Saying sticking to the Bible is being heretical is a scary idea. That's the heart of Sola Scriptura- sticking to the Bible. It means getting theology from the Bible alone. It hails back to Athenasias at the Council of Nicea, not the 1500's, as he frequently wrote about the Scriptures being sufficient.
In Him,
Dave
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Schroeder
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you do not know your history very well. in the very beggining there was no one organized church group there were churchs in antioch jerusalem rome and constantine ect ect. the scriptures tell us to have elders in these churchs to keep order and sound doctrine, But it does not say that doing so will insure that it stays acurate to Christ teachings. Rome and constintine fought over the right to be the ONE church to rule over the Church, so to speak. IT was all p[olotics. they survived becuase the ROman empire destroyed the powers of the other cities rome and constintine were the only ones able to remain with a bit of control or p[ower. again it was mostly politics. The Chruch is ALL christians together. NOT one organised group of christians in control over doctrine and such. Show me in scripture that the CATHOLIC denom is to be the teacher of doctrine.
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Yet it is Scripture alone that is/was given by inspiration of God, no other "media" has that as a characteristic. Sola is a conclusion which is drawn because Scripture is by its very nature the word of God.
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Scripture refers to itself as being that which is given by inspiration of God. For this reason, by way of its character, it stands above any other media in regards to faith and practice.
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I was refering to Church Tradition.
But, you do raise an interesting question about the fact that there are other, non-Christian, texts/traditions that refer to themselves as the result of inspiration by God.
But, you do raise an interesting question about the fact that there are other, non-Christian, texts/traditions that refer to themselves as the result of inspiration by God.
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Schroeder
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It funny because they say tradition does not contradict scripture SO if you say you go by scripture ONLY it shouldnt matter because as they say its says the same thing. The fact is it doesnt which is why they have such a problem with people saying sola scripture.
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the problem with the Sola Scriptura argument is not that it disagrees with tradition, but that scripture alone is incomplete and leads to misinterpretations which are not in alignment with tradition.
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Schroeder
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and the problem with this is that it relizes on MAN and not God. Scripture, as matter of FACT, interprates itself and needs no one to interprate it. and those who began these traditions are what nonhuman. they could not read the scriptures they had, even if it is not in form as now, and NOT error on there interpratation but for some reason we can now. your arguement makes no since. those who started "traditions" were just as error prone as you or me. What you say is THEY were not prone to error, though they are as human as me.
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