Darren Court
Active Member
Upvote
0
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
Lol. He's not wrong. I mean, a lot of people do do this. Not all Protestants hold to Sola Scriptura though, and not all that the ones that do, use it in this way.
...
Every truth can be and most often is perverted. It is the work of the devil and only those guided into the truth God wants them to know, will find truth at all.
There is no agreement amongst protestants what the definition of Sola Sciptura is (I've seen no less than 4 definitions on this forum), just as there is no agreement what scripture teaches.Hi,
I am reading a book at the moment and it characterises Sola Scripture in the following way and I am wondering if its a fair characterisation:
To quote: "Sola Scriptura was a sound bite that dealt first with the question of authority. It described the Reformation's inspired return to the Bible as the ultimate source of religious authority for theology, rather than the piled up traditions and papal pronouncements of the church...
"As it turned out, the Protestant idea of sola scriptura had some loopholes when doing doctrine. Sola Scriptura really meant that you came up with a theological argument, idea, or doctrine first, and then you rummaged around in Scripture for some verses to support it. If Scripture was to be involved in theologizing at all, in any era, that has been pretty much the procedure..."
Its the last bit I am wondering about. I think for Luther he was wrestling with the meaning of "the righteousness of God", in the Epistle to the Romans and his new understanding of that led on to what he later taught.
Anyway the writer Jon Mark Ruthen, is talking about what's wrong with Protestant Theology (title of the book) and has written other books about continationism of Spiritual gifts. Have only started reading it, but if its just the other side (Pentecostal / Charismatic) I don't know how it differs from other critiques from the Charismatic movement. I'd rather see a book more along the lines of both what is right and what is wrong in protestant theology.
Not sure what what the point is when you say there is no agreement what Sola Scriptura is between Protestants. I don't see how that is relevant since there is no agreement within any Christian denomination on everything even Catholism.There is no agreement amongst protestants what the definition of Sola Sciptura is (I've seen no less than 4 definitions on this forum), just as there is no agreement what scripture teaches.
Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!Scripture alone is to depart from the teachings of Jesus and to rely one ones own interpretation of scripture.
Jesus gave us His Apostles to teach scripture. To teach His word.
This has been handed down throughout the centuries via Sacred Tradition.
Protestantism has 1,000's of denominations. Each with their very own unique interpretations of scripture. This, departs from what Jesus taught.
Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree anything against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce anything to be believed for necessity of Salvation.Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!
Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the ultimate authority!
The problem here is that Catholics would like to argue that the three authorities of tradition, church and scripture are equal but that is simple and quite obviously not true. The church is the ultimate authority over scripture and tradition which is clearly NEVER taught by Christ or believed by the early church. If there's any doubt about this, we have to ask...
i) Who decides what scripture really means? THE CHURCH
ii) Who decides which traditions are sacred and which are not? THE CHURCH
iii) Who is the ultimate authority? THE CHURCH.
Protestants do have 1,000 of denominations but I'm going to go further and say MILLIONS of different beliefs because within those denominations we have people believing and disbelieving many different things. This is because we all err to Customised Christianity... or Christianity we think is true irrespective of what our denomination or others believe. The problem is that Catholics WANT to believe they are united in their faith and it's a complete lie... and it's troubling they cannot see and parade their assumed unity as if it's a demonstration of their pious righteousness (much like the clergy of the first century). The thing is that Catholics, maybe on a subconscious level, know and can see their unity is not true because within every church there are Catholics who don't believe everything the way the church teaches it.... but let's go further and demonstrate this disunity more widely so as to demonstrate the fallacy of it....
To be a Catholic one MUST believe in the divine beliefs called dogma. These are the non-negotiables of Catholicism. If you don't believe in any of these then officially you're not a Catholic. Yet, TWO THIRDS of American Catholics do not believe in the dogma of transubstantion. That's two thirds who Catholics in the US who are not actually Catholic!!
Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ .
.
So much for Protestants having unique interpreations!
Thank you for your reply.Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree anything against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce anything to be believed for necessity of Salvation.
Scripture is the Church's book, and we are the people of the book, but God is not the prisoner of the book. Scripture. Means little without the church, and the church is without a rule (guide) without scripture. It is not either or, you need both.
Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!
Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the ultimate authority!
The problem here is that Catholics would like to argue that the three authorities of tradition, church and scripture are equal but that is simple and quite obviously not true. The church is the ultimate authority over scripture and tradition which is clearly NEVER taught by Christ or believed by the early church. If there's any doubt about this, we have to ask...
i) Who decides what scripture really means? THE CHURCH
ii) Who decides which traditions are sacred and which are not? THE CHURCH
iii) Who is the ultimate authority? THE CHURCH.
Protestants do have 1,000 of denominations but I'm going to go further and say MILLIONS of different beliefs because within those denominations we have people believing and disbelieving many different things. This is because we all err to Customised Christianity... or Christianity we think is true irrespective of what our denomination or others believe. The problem is that Catholics WANT to believe they are united in their faith and it's a complete lie... and it's troubling they cannot see and parade their assumed unity as if it's a demonstration of their pious righteousness (much like the clergy of the first century). The thing is that Catholics, maybe on a subconscious level, know and can see their unity is not true because within every church there are Catholics who don't believe everything the way the church teaches it.... but let's go further and demonstrate this disunity more widely so as to demonstrate the fallacy of it....
To be a Catholic one MUST believe in the divine beliefs called dogma. These are the non-negotiables of Catholicism. If you don't believe in any of these then officially you're not a Catholic. Yet, TWO THIRDS of American Catholics do not believe in the dogma of transubstantion. That's two thirds who Catholics in the US who are not actually Catholic!!
Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ .
.
So much for Protestants having unique interpreations!
I'm sorry you can try to claim authority in regards to Catholic things but trying to do so in Protestant beliefs in order to them criticise them is the very definition of a strawman argument.Sola scripture is indeed scripture alone.
Verse please?Scripture alone is to depart from the teachings of Jesus...
Verse for what? The Catholic doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus"... there isn't one!I'm sorry you can try to claim authority in regards to Catholic things but trying to do so in Protestant beliefs in order to them criticise them is the very definition of a strawman argument.
On this principle, are you going to accept "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" as meaning exactly what it says "Outside the church there is no salvation"??? with church meaning the Catholic Church?
um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible. That is a man made idea. You and other are free to follow it, but please don't try to convince everyone that Sola Scriptura is biblical.Verse please?
Well, according to scripture Baptism is needed for salvation. According to scripture, the Eucharist is needed for salvation. So, how is a protestant supposed to satisfy both these requirements?Verse for what? The Catholic doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus"... there isn't one!
So one can claim that Jesus said something and not be obligated to provide scriptural support?um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible. That is a man made idea. You and other are free to follow it, but please don't try to convince everyone that Sola Scriptura is biblical.
prior to Jesus starting His ministry, God's revelation was limited to the Old Testament. Why then is it interesting to you?It's interesting to me that, when tempted by Satan, Jesus responded FOUR times "It is written" and quoted scripture to refute Satan's claims. One might glean that we too should refer to the written word./
um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible.
I'm saying Sola Scriptura isn't biblical. It is departing from what Jesus taught.So one can claim that Jesus said something and not be obligated to provide scriptural support?
It's interesting to me that Jesus said, four times, "It is written" and then referred to scripture to rebuke Satan.Why then is it interesting to you?
All this says is that the Tanakh (this was scripture at the time of this letter) is profitable, which it is. You are adding to scripture and calling it the Rule of Faith. Again, you are free to extend the meaning of scripture.2 Timothy 3:15-17 ESV
And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?