Sola Scriptura - what does it mean?

[Darren Court]

Lol. He's not wrong. I mean, a lot of people do do this. Not all Protestants hold to Sola Scriptura though, and not all that the ones that do, use it in this way.
...
Every truth can be and most often is perverted. It is the work of the devil and only those guided into the truth God wants them to know, will find truth at all.

 

[concretecamper]

Hi,


I am reading a book at the moment and it characterises Sola Scripture in the following way and I am wondering if its a fair characterisation:

To quote: "Sola Scriptura was a sound bite that dealt first with the question of authority. It described the Reformation's inspired return to the Bible as the ultimate source of religious authority for theology, rather than the piled up traditions and papal pronouncements of the church...

"As it turned out, the Protestant idea of sola scriptura had some loopholes when doing doctrine. Sola Scriptura really meant that you came up with a theological argument, idea, or doctrine first, and then you rummaged around in Scripture for some verses to support it. If Scripture was to be involved in theologizing at all, in any era, that has been pretty much the procedure..."

Its the last bit I am wondering about. I think for Luther he was wrestling with the meaning of "the righteousness of God", in the Epistle to the Romans and his new understanding of that led on to what he later taught.

Anyway the writer Jon Mark Ruthen, is talking about what's wrong with Protestant Theology (title of the book) and has written other books about continationism of Spiritual gifts. Have only started reading it, but if its just the other side (Pentecostal / Charismatic) I don't know how it differs from other critiques from the Charismatic movement. I'd rather see a book more along the lines of both what is right and what is wrong in protestant theology.

There is no agreement amongst protestants what the definition of Sola Sciptura is (I've seen no less than 4 definitions on this forum), just as there is no agreement what scripture teaches.

 

[Darren Court]

There is no agreement amongst protestants what the definition of Sola Sciptura is (I've seen no less than 4 definitions on this forum), just as there is no agreement what scripture teaches.

Not sure what what the point is when you say there is no agreement what Sola Scriptura is between Protestants. I don't see how that is relevant since there is no agreement within any Christian denomination on everything even Catholism.

 

[Lost4words]

Scripture alone is to depart from the teachings of Jesus and to rely one ones own interpretation of scripture.

Jesus gave us His Apostles to teach scripture. To teach His word.

This has been handed down throughout the centuries via Sacred Tradition.

Protestantism has 1,000's of denominations. Each with their very own unique interpretations of scripture. This, departs from what Jesus taught.

 

[Darren Court]

Scripture alone is to depart from the teachings of Jesus and to rely one ones own interpretation of scripture.

Jesus gave us His Apostles to teach scripture. To teach His word.

This has been handed down throughout the centuries via Sacred Tradition.

Protestantism has 1,000's of denominations. Each with their very own unique interpretations of scripture. This, departs from what Jesus taught.

Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!

Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the ultimate authority!

The problem here is that Catholics would like to argue that the three authorities of tradition, church and scripture are equal but that is simple and quite obviously not true. The church is the ultimate authority over scripture and tradition which is clearly NEVER taught by Christ or believed by the early church. If there's any doubt about this, we have to ask...

i) Who decides what scripture really means? THE CHURCH
ii) Who decides which traditions are sacred and which are not? THE CHURCH
iii) Who is the ultimate authority? THE CHURCH.

Protestants do have 1,000 of denominations but I'm going to go further and say MILLIONS of different beliefs because within those denominations we have people believing and disbelieving many different things. This is because we all err to Customised Christianity... or Christianity we think is true irrespective of what our denomination or others believe. The problem is that Catholics WANT to believe they are united in their faith and it's a complete lie... and it's troubling they cannot see and parade their assumed unity as if it's a demonstration of their pious righteousness (much like the clergy of the first century). The thing is that Catholics, maybe on a subconscious level, know and can see their unity is not true because within every church there are Catholics who don't believe everything the way the church teaches it.... but let's go further and demonstrate this disunity more widely so as to demonstrate the fallacy of it....

To be a Catholic one MUST believe in the divine beliefs called dogma. These are the non-negotiables of Catholicism. If you don't believe in any of these then officially you're not a Catholic. Yet, TWO THIRDS of American Catholics do not believe in the dogma of transubstantion. That's two thirds who Catholics in the US who are not actually Catholic!!
Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ .
.
So much for Protestants having unique interpreations!

 

[Philip_B]

Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!

Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the ultimate authority!

The problem here is that Catholics would like to argue that the three authorities of tradition, church and scripture are equal but that is simple and quite obviously not true. The church is the ultimate authority over scripture and tradition which is clearly NEVER taught by Christ or believed by the early church. If there's any doubt about this, we have to ask...

i) Who decides what scripture really means? THE CHURCH
ii) Who decides which traditions are sacred and which are not? THE CHURCH
iii) Who is the ultimate authority? THE CHURCH.

Protestants do have 1,000 of denominations but I'm going to go further and say MILLIONS of different beliefs because within those denominations we have people believing and disbelieving many different things. This is because we all err to Customised Christianity... or Christianity we think is true irrespective of what our denomination or others believe. The problem is that Catholics WANT to believe they are united in their faith and it's a complete lie... and it's troubling they cannot see and parade their assumed unity as if it's a demonstration of their pious righteousness (much like the clergy of the first century). The thing is that Catholics, maybe on a subconscious level, know and can see their unity is not true because within every church there are Catholics who don't believe everything the way the church teaches it.... but let's go further and demonstrate this disunity more widely so as to demonstrate the fallacy of it....

To be a Catholic one MUST believe in the divine beliefs called dogma. These are the non-negotiables of Catholicism. If you don't believe in any of these then officially you're not a Catholic. Yet, TWO THIRDS of American Catholics do not believe in the dogma of transubstantion. That's two thirds who Catholics in the US who are not actually Catholic!!
Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ .
.
So much for Protestants having unique interpreations!

Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree anything against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce anything to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

Scripture is the Church's book, and we are the people of the book, but God is not the prisoner of the book. Scripture. Means little without the church, and the church is without a rule (guide) without scripture. It is not either or, you need both.

 

[Darren Court]

Wherefore, although the Church be a witness and a keeper of Holy Writ, yet, as it ought not to decree anything against the same, so besides the same ought it not to enforce anything to be believed for necessity of Salvation.

Scripture is the Church's book, and we are the people of the book, but God is not the prisoner of the book. Scripture. Means little without the church, and the church is without a rule (guide) without scripture. It is not either or, you need both.

Thank you for your reply.

"Wherefore, although the Church be a witness..." sorry I reject men's words to rule over scripture.

"Scripture is the Church's book..." sorry again, this is clearly not true! Scripture is God's book. All scripture is GOD breathed!

"God is not the prisoner of the book..." strange comment because you seemingly can accept God is a prisoner of tradition, church and scripture just not a prisoner of scripture. I reject all such notions and so does the bible! "For the word of God is alive and active" ALIVE AND ACTIVE! He's not a prisoner! More than that the word of God isn't a book, isn't even words on pages but Christ Himself! You cannot read His words and see the truth lest the Holy Spirit reveals them! Hallelujah!

"Means little without the church..." Ouch, that's so painfully wrong. God's word means little without the church? God's word does not need the church to have meaning or value.... it's "alive and active". It's life does not depend on the church or anyone! Moreover, what is the church? Ecclessia or church does not mean a building or even a denomination. It means ALL believers.. ie. a gathering! This is where it gets interesting and difficult for Catholics though. You see, the Catholic Church officially accepts that the church of Christ is comprised of all believers. Now this would be logical problem were it not for the fact that the Catholic Church also accepts that there are saved people following Christ outside of the Catholic Church... which means the church of Christ has to be more than the Catholic Church.

The people, ie. the church absolutely do need scripture but scripture certainly doesn't need the people!

 

[Lost4words]

Sola Scriptura is not scripture alone any more than Sola Ecclessia is church alone!!!

Sola Scriptura is that scripture is the ultimate authority!

The problem here is that Catholics would like to argue that the three authorities of tradition, church and scripture are equal but that is simple and quite obviously not true. The church is the ultimate authority over scripture and tradition which is clearly NEVER taught by Christ or believed by the early church. If there's any doubt about this, we have to ask...

i) Who decides what scripture really means? THE CHURCH
ii) Who decides which traditions are sacred and which are not? THE CHURCH
iii) Who is the ultimate authority? THE CHURCH.

Protestants do have 1,000 of denominations but I'm going to go further and say MILLIONS of different beliefs because within those denominations we have people believing and disbelieving many different things. This is because we all err to Customised Christianity... or Christianity we think is true irrespective of what our denomination or others believe. The problem is that Catholics WANT to believe they are united in their faith and it's a complete lie... and it's troubling they cannot see and parade their assumed unity as if it's a demonstration of their pious righteousness (much like the clergy of the first century). The thing is that Catholics, maybe on a subconscious level, know and can see their unity is not true because within every church there are Catholics who don't believe everything the way the church teaches it.... but let's go further and demonstrate this disunity more widely so as to demonstrate the fallacy of it....

To be a Catholic one MUST believe in the divine beliefs called dogma. These are the non-negotiables of Catholicism. If you don't believe in any of these then officially you're not a Catholic. Yet, TWO THIRDS of American Catholics do not believe in the dogma of transubstantion. That's two thirds who Catholics in the US who are not actually Catholic!!
Just one-third of U.S. Catholics agree with their church that Eucharist is body, blood of Christ .
.
So much for Protestants having unique interpreations!

Sola scripture is indeed scripture alone.

 

[Darren Court]

Sola scripture is indeed scripture alone.

I'm sorry you can try to claim authority in regards to Catholic things but trying to do so in Protestant beliefs in order to them criticise them is the very definition of a strawman argument.

On this principle, are you going to accept "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" as meaning exactly what it says "Outside the church there is no salvation"??? with church meaning the Catholic Church?

 

[Not of the World]

Scripture alone is to depart from the teachings of Jesus...

Verse please?

 

[Darren Court]

I'm sorry you can try to claim authority in regards to Catholic things but trying to do so in Protestant beliefs in order to them criticise them is the very definition of a strawman argument.

On this principle, are you going to accept "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus" as meaning exactly what it says "Outside the church there is no salvation"??? with church meaning the Catholic Church?

Verse for what? The Catholic doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus"... there isn't one!

 

[Not of the World]

It's interesting to me that, when tempted by Satan, Jesus responded FOUR times "It is written" and quoted scripture to refute Satan's claims. One might glean that we too should refer to the written word.

Matthew 4

English Standard Version

​

The Temptation of Jesus​

4 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. 2 And after fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3 And the tempter came and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become loaves of bread.” 4 But he answered, “It is written,
“‘Man shall not live by bread alone,
but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.’”
5 Then the devil took him to the holy city and set him on the pinnacle of the temple 6 and said to him, “If you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written,
“‘He will command his angels concerning you,’
and
“‘On their hands they will bear you up,
lest you strike your foot against a stone.’”
7 Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, ‘You shall not put the Lord your God to the test.’” 8 Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory. 9 And he said to him, “All these I will give you, if you will fall down and worship me.” 10 Then Jesus said to him, “Be gone, Satan! For it is written,
“‘You shall worship the Lord your God
and him only shall you serve.’”
11 Then the devil left him, and behold, angels came and were ministering to him.

 

[concretecamper]

Verse please?

um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible. That is a man made idea. You and other are free to follow it, but please don't try to convince everyone that Sola Scriptura is biblical.

 

[concretecamper]

Verse for what? The Catholic doctrine of "Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus"... there isn't one!

Well, according to scripture Baptism is needed for salvation. According to scripture, the Eucharist is needed for salvation. So, how is a protestant supposed to satisfy both these requirements?

 

[Not of the World]

um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible. That is a man made idea. You and other are free to follow it, but please don't try to convince everyone that Sola Scriptura is biblical.

So one can claim that Jesus said something and not be obligated to provide scriptural support?

 

[concretecamper]

It's interesting to me that, when tempted by Satan, Jesus responded FOUR times "It is written" and quoted scripture to refute Satan's claims. One might glean that we too should refer to the written word./

prior to Jesus starting His ministry, God's revelation was limited to the Old Testament. Why then is it interesting to you?

 

[Not of the World]

um, there is no verse that says the rule of faith for a Christian is the Bible.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 ESV​

And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

 

[concretecamper]

So one can claim that Jesus said something and not be obligated to provide scriptural support?

I'm saying Sola Scriptura isn't biblical. It is departing from what Jesus taught.

 

[Not of the World]

Why then is it interesting to you?

It's interesting to me that Jesus said, four times, "It is written" and then referred to scripture to rebuke Satan.

 

[concretecamper]

2 Timothy 3:15-17 ESV​

And how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.

All this says is that the Tanakh (this was scripture at the time of this letter) is profitable, which it is. You are adding to scripture and calling it the Rule of Faith. Again, you are free to extend the meaning of scripture.