Sola Fide

[grace24]

Just curious, Protestants believe salvation is by grace through faith alone, not of works. Works is a result of the Holy Spirit transforming the inner self. Catholicism believe faith + works = justification, and that faith + works = flows from grace. But is this not against Romans 11:6?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works,
then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now i have a question. Catholics says nowhere does the Bible says "faith alone". How do you respond to this?

 

[MrPolo]

That verse doesn't use faith alone. And the context of the term "works" in Romans 11:6 is in reference to OT ordinances---God is no longer going to identify His children as those who keep the works of the OT Law but rather grace will bring His children to Him. The bulk of the middle of Romans is Paul teaching how the OT works could not save, but now the way is via Christ. It is Jewish thought on reconciliation vs. Christian though.

 

[Goinheix]

If by grace, it means that it was like a present, something we did not work for, did not pay the price, we get it for free, with no rights. We didint deserve to be saved, but we are saved anyhow, by grace.

Jesus did the work. Understanding "work" in the OT context, means that Jesus did it all. Nothing is left for us to complete or complement.

 

[σύνδουλόν]

Just curious, Protestants believe salvation is by grace through faith alone, not of works. Works is a result of the Holy Spirit transforming the inner self. Catholicism believe faith + works = justification, and that faith + works = flows from grace. But is this not against Romans 11:6?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works,
then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now i have a question. Catholics says nowhere does the Bible says "faith alone". How do you respond to this?

To interject a thought:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: - Ephesians 2:8

Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Ephesians 2:9

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. - Ephesians 2:10

So we see that we are not saved by any works, but rather by the Grace of God that we take hold of by Faith, and we are His worksmanship, recreated unto good works. The works are the end result of Him working in us and are not the root. We cannot add any works to what He has already done. Yet, Faith alone is dead. We must have the works, not to be saved, but becasue we are saved, being saved, will be saved. An example is Cain. He acted as though he believed in the offering, yet he did it by his own works (bringing of the fruit of the ground, the cursed earth) and he had not true faith in the sacrifice. Abel did have true faith and brought of the firstlings of his flock, and did as was commanded and pleased God. Was it the works included that saved him? oh no, for it was still by the Grace of God (Genesis 3:15) and through faith in the coming redeemer, Jesus Christ, that he (Abel) truly believed in and so his actions reveal that faith.

This is how James and Paul agree.

But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. - James 1:22

Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. - James 2:17

We cannot merely say we 'believe' and then do not the things He says, for:

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? - Luke 6:46

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. - Matthew 7:23

'iniquity' - 'ἀνομία' 'anomia' - 'without law, lawlessness in violation of the law'.

But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all [ye] workers of iniquity. - Luke 13:27

'iniquity' - 'ἀδικία' 'adikia' - 'working unrighteousness, injustice'

Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. - James 2:18

Some claimed that all they had to do was believe and not change, not sumbit to God and keep His Commandments. They believed that they could be saved in their sins. The repentant instead reveals his true faith by seeking God to recreate him to obey.

But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? - James 2:20

Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? - James 2:22

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. - James 2:26

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. - Matthew 7:21

A good example of how grace, faith and works go together is in the exmaples of baptism. God pours out His Holy Spirit (Grace), they heard the words preached, their hearts were pricked, they believed the words (faith; Romans 10:17), and because their faith was the genuine article, they chose to obey and be baptised by full immersion in water (works).

By Grace through Faith:

"But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God..." - Acts 8:12

Wrought 'works' then the 'faith' is perfect:

"..., and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women." - Acts 8:12

By Grace through Faith:

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. - Acts 8:37

Wrought 'works' then the 'faith' is perfect:

And as they went on [their] way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, [here is] water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? - Acts 8:36

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. - Acts 8:38

By Grace through Faith:

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. - Acts 10:44

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 10:45

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? - Acts 10:47

Wrought 'works' then the 'faith' is perfect:

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. - Acts 10:48

 

[RadicalDissenter]

Just curious, Protestants believe salvation is by grace through faith alone, not of works. Works is a result of the Holy Spirit transforming the inner self. Catholicism believe faith + works = justification, and that faith + works = flows from grace. But is this not against Romans 11:6?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works,
then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now i have a question. Catholics says nowhere does the Bible says "faith alone". How do you respond to this?

Both sides are wrong.


Traditional Protestant Sola fide (faith alone, no works) is wrong - it contradicts the Scriptures. By contradicting the Scriptures, it also contradicts another Protestant principle: Sola scriptura.


You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. (James 2:24)


Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, (Philippians 2:12)

But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God,who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEED (Romans 2:5,6)



Catholicism is wrong. In Roman Catholicism:


faith = beliefs taught by the Roman Catholic church, wich includes believing in her authority;
works = actions approved by the Roman Catholic church, done under her authority.


Roman Catholicism teaches justification by its own authority – „No salvation outside the Church“:


Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it" (Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium, 14).

 

[MrPolo]

works = actions approved by the Roman Catholic church, done under her authority.

That's not really a very good understanding of works in Catholicism, for works themselves are the action of Christ's grace in us. "Christ continually infuses his virtue into the said justified...and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious..." - Council of Trent.

Also, it's illogical to criticize the Church for teaching that salvation involves incorporation into the Church. Scripture of course teaches the Church is Christ's body (Eph 1:22-23) over which appointed shepherds were told "whoever hears you hears Me" (Lk 10:16). So if you want salvation you must be members of His body (1 Cor 12:12), the Church. If you want to argue the Catholic Church is not that Church Christ founded (Mt 16:18) that's one thing. But to criticize a Church for saying you must incorporate into Christ's Church for salvation is irrational and contra-Scripture.

 

[laconicstudent]

Now i have a question. Catholics says nowhere does the Bible says "faith alone". How do you respond to this?

They are right, it doesn't.

 

[Goinheix]

The definition "sola fide" does not means "only by faith". "Sola fide" is a label for a theologycal posture concerning the salvation, and that posture can not be reduced to two worgds: "sola fide". For beilg saved from sin and death, it was necesary the work of Jesus at the cross and the grace of God.

"Sola fide" basically means that we do not need to work (do) in orther to complety or complement the work at the cross. It means that the work at the cross in a context of grace from God, result in our salvation by faith alone. The part we play is only having faith, faith (plus the cross and grace) is enought with no need of aditional or previous work. Also means that it is only by faith and by any other alternative way.

I am proposing - not only now but for quite a time - a "chimestry formulae" postulation of all salvation doctrines. In my proposal F stand for "fide" (faith), O stand for "opera" (work) and G for "gratia" (grace).

The sola fiede position shall be goF. It mean that starting by the grace of God, implemented by the work of the cross, we only need to have faith. Doing enfasis in the faith as it is show in capital.

The jew position will be: O, since works are suppose to be enought by themselves. For the islam it will be: G, since they not have any salvation solution but hope God accept them by grace. The catholic can be: Fo, since after the faith it is necesarry to do works.

The idea is something like that.

 

[JCFantasy23]

Just curious, Protestants believe salvation is by grace through faith alone, not of works. Works is a result of the Holy Spirit transforming the inner self. Catholicism believe faith + works = justification, and that faith + works = flows from grace. But is this not against Romans 11:6?

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works,
then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Now i have a question. Catholics says nowhere does the Bible says "faith alone". How do you respond to this?

I think arguing about all this is circular logic, most are basically meaning/thinking the same thing but overcomplicating it when it shouldn't be complicated.