Sola Fide (faith alone)

[carebeargiver]

There are plenty of moral systems not based on God, like Confucianism, Buddhism, etc. Morality is a natural instinct that competes with greed. Even pack animals like wolves will sacrifice to help each other.

this isn't so much about morality as it is in obeying Yahweh.

 

[visionary]

James 2:22
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

 

[Norbert L]

James 2:22
You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

From what I've read about MJ, most would agree that is one portion of what sums it about faith alone. The other portion that gets a fair amount of attention is Jas 2:17, Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

I would add, what perplexes me is because a large amount teaching within Christianity as a whole is given to his words in Rom 4:3, "For G1063 what G5101 saith G3004 the scripture G1124? G1161 Abraham G11 believed G4100 God G2316, and G2532 it was counted G3049 unto him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343." , as something that proves faith alone does exist.

But as I keep on reading the full passage, Paul continues to explain in verses 21-22, "And G2532 being fully persuaded G4135 that G3754, what G3739 he had promised G1861, he was G2076 able G1415 also G2532 to perform G4160. And G2532 therefore G1352 it was imputed G3049 to him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343."

Now the reason for including the Strong's numbers was to ask a question about the MJ community. Keeping in mind there are 4 words that are not only common to both portions of this passage but are also exactly the same G3049 G846 G1519 G1343. "it was counted/imputed G3049 unto him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343"

Does the MJ community see this whole portion of scripture in Romans as something that conflicts with James?

 

[yedida]

From what I've read about MJ, most would agree that is one portion of what sums it about faith alone. The other portion that gets a fair amount of attention is Jas 2:17, Even so faith, if it has not works, is dead, being alone.

I would add, what perplexes me is because a large amount teaching within Christianity as a whole is given to his words in Rom 4:3, "For G1063 what G5101 saith G3004 the scripture G1124? G1161 Abraham G11 believed G4100 God G2316, and G2532 it was counted G3049 unto him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343." , as something that proves faith alone does exist.

But as I keep on reading the full passage, Paul continues to explain in verses 21-22, "And G2532 being fully persuaded G4135 that G3754, what G3739 he had promised G1861, he was G2076 able G1415 also G2532 to perform G4160. And G2532 therefore G1352 it was imputed G3049 to him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343."

Now the reason for including the Strong's numbers was to ask a question about the MJ community. Keeping in mind there are 4 words that are not only common to both portions of this passage but are also exactly the same G3049 G846 G1519 G1343. "it was counted/imputed G3049 unto him G846 for G1519 righteousness G1343"

Does the MJ community see this whole portion of scripture in Romans as something that conflicts with James?

Go back to the beginning when Hashem began working with Abraham. You'll see that with each command given by God, even to the simplist of "look above," Abraham acted on what he believed: that he was talking to the One True God, that God was making promises to Him, and that God was not lying to him. He obeyed each and every command given to him, THEN and only then did Hashem impute his faith (accompanied by works of obedience) as righteousness. If Abraham had just continue sitting in his doorway saying, "yeah, yeah, Praise God, praise God," but had never gotten to his feet to leave his home city, to walk the expanse, to look up into the sky, etc., God would not have imputed righteousnees to him.
I don't see that what those verses about Hashem and Abraham convey conflicts with James whatsoever.

 

[visionary]

Mount Sinai ...faith in that God declared His Kingdom on Mount Sinai, Righteousness, and Holy Living, with prophetic rehearsals of His comings... Faith in Yeshua as the coming of the Messiah for the spring appointed times.. who also promised to come back.. which will be in the fall appointed times laid out at Mount Sinai.

 

[fschmidt]

Aaaah OK, got cha!
Works have never been a means of salvation, neither in the Levitical sacrifice system, not today. There must be a marriage of both works and faith. It's always been that way.

I just want to say that I disagree with this. After reading the Old Testament (Tanakh) carefully, I see that the focus there is entirely on works. And Jesus seems to support this in the Gospels. The focus on faith came after Jesus died and seems to have been primarily pushed by Paul.

I am particularly fond of God's words in Amos 5:21-24.


I hate, I despise your feasts!
I can't stand the stench
of your solemn assemblies.

Even if you offer Me
your burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept [them];
I will have no regard
for your fellowship offerings of fattened cattle.

Take away from Me the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.

But let justice flow like water,
and righteousness, like an unfailing stream.

 

[yedida]

I just want to say that I disagree with this. After reading the Old Testament (Tanakh) carefully, I see that the focus there is entirely on works. And Jesus seems to support this in the Gospels. The focus on faith came after Jesus died and seems to have been primarily pushed by Paul.

I am particularly fond of God's words in Amos 5:21-24.


I hate, I despise your feasts!
I can't stand the stench
of your solemn assemblies.

Even if you offer Me
your burnt offerings and grain offerings,
I will not accept [them];
I will have no regard
for your fellowship offerings of fattened cattle.

Take away from Me the noise of your songs!
I will not listen to the music of your harps.

But let justice flow like water,
and righteousness, like an unfailing stream.

You've missed the point of the statement in Amos 5:21-24. These things were being done but not with the right heart, attitude. Their hearts and minds were not on Hashem, He was far from what they were doing, therefore their offerings, their songs were meaningless to Him. They were not walking humbly with Hashem, seeking justice and mercy for their fellowman.

 

[ananda]

Does the MJ community see this whole portion of scripture in Romans as something that conflicts with James?

I would say that the MJ community in general does not see a conflict between Paul and James. They would probably say that Paul focused on faith, whereas James focused on faithfulness (works) as it relates to faith.