Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

[Grip Docility]

Not one of these scriptures fits the situation of Rick. A person claiming to be a Christian and using Jesus’ sacrifice as an excuse to sin. All your doing is posting a lot of nonsense that does not directly fit the situation we’re discussing. Just because Jesus taught thousands of sinners does not mean they all became Christians then began willfully indulging in sin and mocking Jesus by saying I can sin all I want because Jesus died for my sins. None of the verses you quoted describe a situation even remotely similar to Rick’s situation.

You’re missing my point. You conjured a Carnal example and are attempting to know the heart through the flesh.

 

[mdamon0501]

I think if you simply examine the principle totality of God from the perspective of justification by faith And works, you fail to recognize God as what He is: God. Hence why Paul writes the sentences in Romans 1:16-17, and even directly mentions how men take their worship of God and turn it into the worship of created things later on in the Same chapter!

This is the same argument I make to my Muslim friend. That in his belief he does not worship a God, but rather himself, or other men who claim to be saved through the totality of their works, making themselves the light to the world, and the teacher of others, usurping God.

Heavens No! My soul cannot even stomach the idea! The Book of Roman's will tear such an argument to shreds when read and considered as a single apologetic argument, whole sale, not piecemeal.

God has all our hairs numbered! We are here a short while, and are gone! At any moment He could grab our lives by the coat tails and throw us into ruin! He makes the rain fall down upon the earth, and the wind rage against the trees! He makes the earth shake and tremble beneath our feet! God, is God! God is true. The Alpha and the Omega. The Beginning and the End. Who was, who is, who is to come!

How can a man stand before him and be measured against his glory? Listen to how Paul prays!

Romans 11:33-36 NASB

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways! [34] For who HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? [35] Or who HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? [36] For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.

If God gave you the grace, why would you boast in yourself?

 

[BNR32FAN]

You know his heart?

The expression “WOOHOO!!” is pretty self explanatory. What Christian expresses shame of committing a sin right after being called out on it by continuing to indulge in the sin and shouting WOOHOO!!? Your just ignoring the facts here because your backed into a corner and cannot say that Rick is not a Christian because his actions are evidence of this. If you said that you would destroy your belief that obedience and works are not necessary for salvation. So your forced to continue with this charade and try to promote every obscure perspective in order to make it fit with your theology. Your in denial my friend, but the evidence is clear that Rick is not a believer. The very definition of the word believer (pisteuo) includes “the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul”. Rick is not experiencing any kind of conviction or higher prerogative and law of soul. To Rick everything is permissible because Jesus died for his sins, so Rick doesn’t have to be born again. He doesn’t have to become a new creation. He doesn’t have to repent or abide. Rick believes all he has to do is believe that he’s saved and he is saved. Rick is exactly the type of person Jesus mentioned in Matthew 7:13-28.

 

[BNR32FAN]

You’re missing my point. You conjured a Carnal example and are attempting to know the heart through the flesh.

Your just ignoring the evidence. WOOHOO is not the reaction of a Christian who realizes he is sinning.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book.”
‭‭REVELATION‬ ‭22:19‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[mdamon0501]

Your just ignoring the evidence. WOOHOO is not the reaction of a Christian who realizes he is sinning.

I'm quite certain Grip doesn't believe in celebrating sin, you misrepresent Grip. Grip clearly believes in the grieving of sin, but believes that it is the Holy Spirit, and Prayer which is the only way to overcome it.

I would agree with that position. How many people make resolutions each year, and in two weeks have forgotten their promises?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them. In a similar way these are the ones on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy; and they have no firm root in themselves, but are only temporary; then, when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones on whom seed was sown among the thorns; these are the ones who have heard the word, but the worries of the world, and the deceitfulness of riches, and the desires for other things enter in and choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.”
‭‭MARK‬ ‭4:15-19‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭11:17-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[BNR32FAN]

Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.”
‭‭JOHN‬ ‭15:2, 6‬ ‭NASB‬‬

 

[mdamon0501]

In both passages the loss of salvation has nothing to do with the works of the individual in the example. Was not the wild olive grafted in while still wild? What does it say? "Do not forget that it is not you who supports the root, but the root that support you."

"Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith."

"Do not be conceited, but fear; For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will neither spare you."


Do you understand where we are coming from? It has nothing to do with how pure your works are, but everything to do with our faith, and God's will.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I'm quite certain Grip doesn't believe in celebrating sin, you misrepresent Grip. Grip clearly believes in the grieving of sin, but believes that it is the Holy Spirit, and Prayer which is the only way to overcome it.

I would agree with that position. How many people make resolutions each year, and in two weeks have forgotten their promises?

Please look at the context of the discussion about Rick who is a fictional character I was using to illustrate a point. Here’s a link to the post.

Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

 

[BNR32FAN]

In both passages the loss of salvation has nothing to do with the works of the individual in the example. Was not the wild olive grafted in while still wild? What does it say? "Do not forget that it is not you who supports the root, but the root that support you."

"Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith."

"Do not be conceited, but fear; For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will neither spare you."


Do you understand where we are coming from? It has nothing to do with how pure your works are, but everything to do with our faith, and God's will.

Bless you friend I completely agree that we are undoubtedly justified by faith but we must also abide in Christ to receive salvation. The word justified means we are counted as being righteous by God. This does not mean that we cannot later be counted as unrighteous thru disobedience.

 

[Grip Docility]

Your just ignoring the evidence. WOOHOO is not the reaction of a Christian who realizes he is sinning.

At the time of sin, people go WOOHOO... after the sin, people go OH NO!

Heroine is said to bring euphoria, but the crash is said to be horrific!

Cheap Sex is WooHoo! STD's and Loneliness are OH NO!

People don't sin on accident, and by people, I indeed mean Christians, too. Any Christian that says they do not sin, and consciously do so, would be without the Holy Spirit, by scripture. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

We Fail. It doesn't matter how the context is framed or how deeply a person lies about their lack of sin... sin is as sure as human excrement... while we are trapped in these bodies of death.

Jesus didn't die, so we can sin, but because we are sinners. Sinners need saving. Even stupid sinners, like strip club man that waste their money and time, and try to falsely justify their sin.

We all screw up and finger pointing, human ordinances aren't the answer!

Jesus is the answer! The Holy Spirit convicts of sin! There is no need to worry! Strip Club man will come to his carnal reckoning and Romans 7 moment.

God does what God does in HIS time, not ours, and it is unwise to judge the Holy Spirits work, with rebellious humanity.

By rebellious humanity, I mean ALL humans!

 

[Grip Docility]

Here’s evidence of loss of salvation

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, "Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in." Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God's kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭ROMANS‬ ‭11:17-23‬ ‭NASB‬‬

@mdamon0501 is on point. His context is excellent.

Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

 

[mdamon0501]

Your example is flawed in many ways, it is a straw man.

Does this make Ecclesiastes unregenerate, after the preacher spoke at length about enjoying pleasure?

Is the Song of Solomon unregenerate and Unchristian because it openly discusses sex?

How many books of the Bible must we scrub for their unholiness?

Rick was drunk, and the Bible is clear that those who wake up in the morning and go under the influence of strong drink lose sight of God and turn to themselves. Does this mean that the next morning Rick didn't wake up and was sorrowful for all that he had done the previous night?

You see this is the problem with your Example. That it removes Gods grace from the equation. IF Rick was a born again, elect child of God, and IF He lived his life in accordance with scripture, evidencing the Holy Spirit within it, and had ONE night of weakness which he grieved afterwards. Does that throw him into the lake of fire? No, the Bible does not argue such a position in any way shape or form. Conveniently though, your example leaves out those before and after details.

This is why Sola Scriptura is so important, these earthly examples are flawed.

 

[Grip Docility]

Your example is flawed in many ways, it is a straw man.

Does this make Ecclesiastes unregenerate, after the preacher spoke at length about enjoying pleasure?

Is the Song of Solomon unregenerate and Unchristian because it openly discusses sex?

How many books of the Bible must we scrub for their unholiness?

Rick was drunk, and the Bible is clear that those who wake up in the morning and go under the influence of strong drink lose sight of God and turn to themselves. Does this mean that the next morning Rick didn't wake up and was sorrowful for all that he had done the previous night?

You see this is the problem with your Example. That it removes Gods grace from the equation. IF Rick was a born again, elect child of God, and IF He lived his life in accordance with scripture, evidencing the Holy Spirit within it, and had ONE night of weakness which he grieved afterwards. Does that throw him into the lake of fire? No, the Bible does not argue such a position in any way shape or form. Conveniently though, your example leaves out those before and after details.

This is why Sola Scriptura is so important, these earthly examples are flawed.

BINGO!

 

[BNR32FAN]

At the time of sin, people go WOOHOO... after the sin, people go OH NO!

Heroine is said to bring euphoria, but the crash is said to be horrific!

Cheap Sex is WooHoo! STD's and Loneliness are OH NO!

People don't sin on accident, and by people, I indeed mean Christians, too. Any Christian that says they do not sin, and consciously do so, would be without the Holy Spirit, by scripture. The Holy Spirit convicts of sin.

We Fail. It doesn't matter how the context is framed or how deeply a person lies about their lack of sin... sin is as sure as human excrement... while we are trapped in these bodies of death.

Jesus didn't die, so we can sin, but because we are sinners. Sinners need saving. Even stupid sinners, like strip club man that waste their money and time, and try to falsely justify their sin.

We all screw up and finger pointing, human ordinances aren't the answer!

Jesus is the answer! The Holy Spirit convicts of sin! There is no need to worry! Strip Club man will come to his carnal reckoning and Romans 7 moment.

God does what God does in HIS time, not ours, and it is unwise to judge the Holy Spirits work, with rebellious humanity.

By rebellious humanity, I mean ALL humans!

Rick is not abiding in Christ and Christ is not abiding in him.

“By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”
‭‭1 JOHN‬ ‭2:3-6‬ ‭NASB

 

[Grip Docility]

Rick is not abiding in Christ and Christ is not abiding in him.

“By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. The one who says, "I have come to know Him," and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him; but whoever keeps His word, in him the love of God has truly been perfected. By this we know that we are in Him: the one who says he abides in Him ought himself to walk in the same manner as He walked.”
‭‭1 JOHN‬ ‭2:3-6‬ ‭NASB

What Commandments are you holding Rick to?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Your example is flawed in many ways, it is a straw man.

Does this make Ecclesiastes unregenerate, after the preacher spoke at length about enjoying pleasure?

Is the Song of Solomon unregenerate and Unchristian because it openly discusses sex?

How many books of the Bible must we scrub for their unholiness?

Rick was drunk, and the Bible is clear that those who wake up in the morning and go under the influence of strong drink lose sight of God and turn to themselves. Does this mean that the next morning Rick didn't wake up and was sorrowful for all that he had done the previous night?

You see this is the problem with your Example. That it removes Gods grace from the equation. IF Rick was a born again, elect child of God, and IF He lived his life in accordance with scripture, evidencing the Holy Spirit within it, and had ONE night of weakness which he grieved afterwards. Does that throw him into the lake of fire? No, the Bible does not argue such a position in any way shape or form. Conveniently though, your example leaves out those before and after details.

This is why Sola Scriptura is so important, these earthly examples are flawed.

He didn’t accidentally go to a strip club to get drunk and when he was confronted with his sin he mocked Jesus’ sacrifice. I’ve seen this myself many times before I became a Christian. That’s why I used this example.

Let me ask both you and Grip this question. Could either of you ever put yourself in Rick’s situation and when the friend said “Hey I thought you were a Christian” could you have the audacity to laughingly say “Ahh it’s ok Jesus died for my sins” and shout WOOHOO!! knowing that you are sinning against God? After hearing a friend say that could you continue with the lap dance mocking Jesus’ sacrifice?

 

[mdamon0501]

Again it's a straw man. I personally don't go to strip clubs, but my experience personally has nothing to do with what scripture teaches.

Scripture teaches the Total Depravity of man, even after given the Holy Spirit.

Any man who says he does not sin, lies. That is scriptural truth. You can go around it. You cant get past it. Not least of when Paul was calling himself a sinner openly before the congregations of the church's. Christians SIN, we are flesh, it's that simple. It's how we grieve our sin that matters, and our Faith is to be eternally lodged in the bosom of Christ, and nowhere else.