Sodomites!!!!

[davedjy]

I don't know the reason for people being gay, and what it is. I know that God doesn't care about gender nearly as much as everyone makes this out to be.

Fleshly desires or innate, inborn orientation? I have just as much of an emotional attachment than sexual one to this. It goes very DEEP into the wiring.

If you think the writers knew about an orientation, they would've written about one, PERIOD. There isn't any rationale of thought to say: "the Bible says a man cleaves to his wife, that leaves no room for anything else...", all that is commentary.
I never said that homosexuals didn't exist, I said they went UNNOTICED, and history proves my point, alone. Google homosexuality and the 19th Century. HISTORY is what is proving my point!

I am leaning more towards God just making gays the way we are, because it goes very deep into emotional wiring as well as sexual, so it's definitely both, not just some "desire", it is very natural.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

It can do this because Christ is ALIVE , and because the scriptures tell us in the OT and NT that neither God or His Son change. They are the same then, now and forever.

Except for all the stuff that, you know... DOES change...

 

[savedandhappy1]

Sodomy is not condemned in and of itself in Scripture, so I don't know what you are reading into that. "Strange flesh" was the raping of the angels mentioned w/the assault on Lot's house in Genesis (19?) I believe. Sodomy is a made up, contrived word formed from the inhabitors of Sodom, but they never had sex w/the other guests or inhabitants, the only thing shown in Scripture is the rape.

They didn't rape the angels, do you have scriptures that say they did?

Sodomy was a word that came about because of the abominal sins they did do, but raping an angel isn't why because they didn't rape them.
​

 

[davedjy]

Except for all the stuff that, you know... DOES change...

There isn't any room in heaven for people like us. Even though the Bible doesn't mention hermaphrodites either, if we don't fit the perfect mold, we are cut.

You were right all along Enemyparty, we are NOT on the VIP list for heaven, it is settled! Time to get acquainted with the guy with the 2 horns on his head! LOL

 

[EnemyPartyII]

They didn't rape the angels, do you have scriptures that say they did?

Do you have the scriptures to say that the sins of Sodom were anything to do with "sodomy"? Chapter and verse please...

 

[EnemyPartyII]

You were right all along Enemyparty, we are NOT on the VIP list for heaven, it is settled! Time to get acquainted with the guy with the 2 horns on his head! LOL

I'm so dedicated to living for ever I'm prepared to die in the attempt

 

[davedjy]

They didn't rape the angels, do you have scriptures that say they did?

Sodomy was a word that came about because of the abominal sins they did do, but raping an angel isn't why because they didn't rape them.
​

Yes, a reading of Genesis 19 (I believe?) proves my point, or Google "raping of angels Bible", and you will yield plenty of results. The Angelic visitors were raped by the inhabitants of Sodom. I don't even think they were gay, most people ARE NOT gay, that is the whole thing. They raped not because of lust, but because of power trip/control, just like most other rape.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

Yes, a reading of Genesis 19 (I believe?) proves my point, or Google "raping of angels Bible", and you will yield plenty of results. The Angelic visitors were raped by the inhabitants of Sodom. I don't even think they were gay, most people ARE NOT gay, that is the whole thing. They raped not because of lust, but because of power trip/control, just like most other rape.

Not to mention the greater issue of whether or not one can homosexually rape an angel anyway... since they arent even human

 

[davedjy]

Not to mention the greater issue of whether or not one can homosexually rape an angel anyway... since they arent even human

I think they were in human, male form, but I'm not really sure. That whole "strange flesh" thing, is exactly what that is...so maybe they didn't come to earth in human form at all.

Either way, a person using Sodom and Gomorrah as proof that anal sex is sinful, is committing a travesty of ignorance in even using this as an example.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

I think they were in human, male form, but I'm not really sure. That whole "strange flesh" thing, is exactly what that is...so maybe they didn't come to earth in human form at all.

Even in human form, does an angel require genitals?

 

[davedjy]

Even in human form, does an angel require genitals?

No, that is true, great point...I don't see why they would even need genitals, they didn't come here to reproduce.

 

[EnemyPartyII]

No, that is true, great point...I don't see why they would even need genitals, they didn't come here to reproduce.

Or pee, presumeably

 

[savedandhappy1]

There isn't any room in heaven for people like us. Even though the Bible doesn't mention hermaphrodites either, if we don't fit the perfect mold, we are cut.

You were right all along Enemyparty, we are NOT on the VIP list for heaven, it is settled! Time to get acquainted with the guy with the 2 horns on his head! LOL

You know Dave the above statements are far from funny, and are no more then lets make them feel quilty and then they will stop pointing out how we are doing something wrong. I never thought you would go for the PC lines, but again I see more changes from the person you used to be. Yes, I know you don't see them.

Making statements like no room in heaven for you and EnemyPartyII, is the same as saying Christ only died for people with brown hair or blue eyes.

Your SSA doesn't make you any different than the rest of us that are born in sin, and the same thing that will get me to heaven will get everyone else.

I thought I could keep away from posting about the stupid VIP comments, but I guess I can't. All that go to heaven are on a VIP list as children of God. The bad part about most of this is trying to make it look like I and anyone else who post in disagreement with you are trying to make themselves better than anyone else. Again, frankly I see a poor me look at how they pick on me, and again it saddens me that you would stoop to something like this. Also, it is making us more important then God, and we are nothing without Him!

Another thing that will just not get out of my head is how the world has made this issue frankly more important then God. Talk about loving the creation more than the Creator.

Not saying you have, but it sure does seem like it isn't just Christians that are making this a non-stop topic.

As I have already said I am moving on to other things that have just as much importance.

Have a good day!
​

 

[savedandhappy1]

Yes, a reading of Genesis 19 (I believe?) proves my point, or Google "raping of angels Bible", and you will yield plenty of results. The Angelic visitors were raped by the inhabitants of Sodom. I don't even think they were gay, most people ARE NOT gay, that is the whole thing. They raped not because of lust, but because of power trip/control, just like most other rape.

They didn't rape them, because the angels blinded them, remember?​

Gen 19:5-11​

5And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
6And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him,
7And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
8Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof.
9And they said, Stand back. And they said again, This one fellow came in to sojourn, and he will needs be a judge: now will we deal worse with thee, than with them. And they pressed sore upon the man, even Lot, and came near to break the door.
10But the men put forth their hand, and pulled Lot into the house to them, and shut to the door.
11And they smote the men that were at the door of the house with blindness, both small and great: so that they wearied themselves to find the door.
​

So now you have in your mind that they were raped when they weren't, and you still don't see how your mind and heart are being deceived?​

I love you Dave, but will move on now there isn't anything else for me to add to this section. It has all been said more than once. It is in the hands of the Lord!​

​

 

[davedjy]

You know Dave the above statements are far from funny, and are no more then lets make them feel quilty and then they will stop pointing out how we are doing something wrong. I never thought you would go for the PC lines, but again I see more changes from the person you used to be. Yes, I know you don't see them.

Making statements like no room in heaven for you and EnemyPartyII, is the same as saying Christ only died for people with brown hair or blue eyes.

Your SSA doesn't make you any different than the rest of us that are born in sin, and the same thing that will get me to heaven will get everyone else.

I thought I could keep away from posting about the stupid VIP comments, but I guess I can't. All that go to heaven are on a VIP list as children of God. The bad part about most of this is trying to make it look like I and anyone else who post in disagreement with you are trying to make themselves better than anyone else. Again, frankly I see a poor me look at how they pick on me, and again it saddens me that you would stoop to something like this. Also, it is making us more important then God, and we are nothing without Him!

Another thing that will just not get out of my head is how the world has made this issue frankly more important then God. Talk about loving the creation more than the Creator.

Not saying you have, but it sure does seem like it isn't just Christians that are making this a non-stop topic.

As I have already said I am moving on to other things that have just as much importance.

Have a good day!
​

Poor me, or you telling us that we live 20-30 years less than a heterosexual?

Poor me, or you telling us AIDS is God's way of punishing us w/some STD statistics?

Poor me, or you telling us that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for homosexual acts, and not what the Bible clearly says (rape, unwelcoming behavior, not helping the poor and needy in Ezekial)?


Btw, what is it that you see in me? I am more happy now than I have been in 13 years of my life. Enemyparty is partly to thank for that...for challenging me with my old beliefs that were haunting me and convicting me as I spoke out wrongly against homosexuality. I have NEVER felt more joy than I do. "every good thing comes from Jesus"...and that goes for this positive peace in my life. Am I cynical to make points? yes, but that doesn't mean I am trying to personally offend anyone or attack, you keep taking it that way. Sometimes it drives the point home better. I also swallowed my pride and added BigChris to my "buddy list"...was that an act of hatred?

Did you ever think for one moment that maybe the Holy Spirit is convicting when that conscience thing happens and it isn't some guilt trip I'm putting on you? I won't even ask you to answer that in writing, just perhaps, maybe to yourself or in prayer.

SSA has nothing to do with an orientation by itself. I have an emotional attachment too...it's a whole COMBINED thing, not just an attraction! God gave that to us! now it's up to us to preach against this Anti-gay doctrine that is making children of God suicidal!

I have been getting Private messages from fellow believers saying that the Holy Spirit has revealed Himself through these interpretations. One being this elder of a consevative Church, so I know the Lord is getting glory.

You have a great day, too... I am changed...but for the better, and I am no longer living in a sea of dark despair and confusion.

 

[savedandhappy1]

Poor me, or you telling us that we live 20-30 years less than a heterosexual?

Why would I post those facts out of hate or out of love?​

Poor me, or you telling us AIDS is God's way of punishing us w/some STD statistics?

Have I ever said it was a punishing, nope don't think so. I know some have and I know that sin is what caused us to need a Saviour so we won't die in our sins. So again, why would I list those stats, after you stated that we aren't to do things that hurt the body? Was it because of hate, discrimination, bigotry, etc., or was it out of love. A love that I couldn't and wouldn't have without the Lord. Why would anyone come here day after day after day, and get called names and accused of whatevers? It sure isn't because we are getting some joy or kicks out of constantly trying to ignore the slams from some, but because out of Love we don't want anyone to perish.​

Poor me, or you telling us that Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for homosexual acts, and not what the Bible clearly says (rape, unwelcoming behavior, not helping the poor and needy in Ezekial)?

Has anyone said it was one thing that caused the destruction of Sodom and the 4 other cities? Nope, they haven't.​

Again, the angels were not raped. I gave you the scriptures that show that.​

Btw, what is it that you see in me? I am more happy now than I have been in 13 years of my life. Enemyparty is partly to thank for that...for challenging me with my old beliefs that were haunting me and convicting me as I spoke out wrongly against homosexuality. I have NEVER felt more joy than I do. "every good thing comes from Jesus"...and that goes for this positive peace in my life. Am I cynical to make points? yes, but that doesn't mean I am trying to personally offend anyone or attack, you keep taking it that way. Sometimes it drives the point home better. I also swallowed my pride and added BigChris to my "buddy list"...was that an act of hatred?​

You keep saying how happy you are, and yet in your post I well I don't see it.​

I have already PM'd you with some of my concerns, and I won't list them here on open forum, Dave.​

Was Jesus cynical to get points across, was He offensive/attacking? Or sometimes did He not even speak?​

Did you ever think for one moment that maybe the Holy Spirit is convicting when that conscience thing happens and it isn't some guilt trip I'm putting on you? I won't even ask you to answer that in writing, just perhaps, maybe to yourself or in prayer.

You aren't putting a guilt trip on me. I said it sounded like what you were trying to do, and I have felt no conviction from the Holy Spirit about anything except how it saddens my heart for the deceiving being done to people I love.​

SSA has nothing to do with an orientation by itself. I have an emotional attachment too...it's a whole COMBINED thing, not just an attraction! God gave that to us! now it's up to us to preach against this Anti-gay doctrine that is making children of God suicidal!

Well I will agree that He gave you over to it, but you already know my feelings on that. I showed you stats on depression and suicide, but as is becoming so common you felt it was bias, even tho I don't believe it was from a Christian site.​

I have been getting Private messages from fellow believers saying that the Holy Spirit has revealed Himself through these interpretations. One being this elder of a consevative Church, so I know the Lord is getting glory.

I'm sure you do feel He is getting glory for this, and a part of me wishes that it was true. No matter how many times I search sites, read the Bible and pray the answer always comes back the same. In the last days there will be unsound doctrines, there will be false Christ, there will be those that are among us, but are not of us. I am really sorry, because I wouldn't want to say anything to offend. I must speak the truth tho, and saying how loving God is, isn't going to change the fact that certain things we do in our lives are sin, and He can't be in the presence of sin.​

You have a great day, too... I am changed...but for the better, and I am no longer living in a sea of dark despair and confusion.

​

 

[davedjy]

I'm sure you do feel He is getting glory for this, and a part of me wishes that it was true. No matter how many times I search sites, read the Bible and pray the answer always comes back the same. In the last days there will be unsound doctrines, there will be false Christ, there will be those that are among us, but are not of us. I am really sorry, because I wouldn't want to say anything to offend. I must speak the truth tho, and saying how loving God is, isn't going to change the fact that certain things we do in our lives are sin, and He can't be in the presence of sin.

I really don't think you get how hurtful this doctrine is. It teaches that gay people were given up to a reprobate mind, and God is done dealing w/them, and they are not of His anymore. It is cherry picking to say that it is just a "thorn in the side". If it was only a thorn, I would have a strong attraction to the opposite sex. How can one explain that? you might be able to call SSA a sin to act upon, but then you would have to explain why one would ONLY have attraction to the same sex, which the Bible DOES NOT talk about!

You said that God cannot be in the presence of sin, yet He is with me now, and the Bible makes it clear in Romans that nothing can separate you from the love of God, and that He will never leave nor forsake. That is why this unsound doctrine is not about what it says, it is talking about actual idolatry for the reason God gave them up in Verse 23, of Chapter 1 in Romans, but I know we don't want to go over that again, lol.

My family and friends have told me that I seem like a totally different person, and in a really good way they said!

Have a great weekend, and hopefully we will talk in private too, I like that a lot.

 

[savedandhappy1]

I really don't think you get how hurtful this doctrine is. It teaches that gay people were given up to a reprobate mind, and God is done dealing w/them, and they are not of His anymore. It is cherry picking to say that it is just a "thorn in the side". If it was only a thorn, I would have a strong attraction to the opposite sex. How can one explain that? you might be able to call SSA a sin to act upon, but then you would have to explain why one would ONLY have attraction to the same sex, which the Bible DOES NOT talk about!

If it was just a thorn in the side, I wouldn't do any of my sins (fill in the blank).

You really don't believe it when the Bible says what a liar and deceiving being the devil is?

You really don't believe the scriptures that tell us we aren't at war with flesh and blood, but principalities and powers?

You said that God cannot be in the presence of sin, yet He is with me now, and the Bible makes it clear in Romans that nothing can separate you from the love of God, and that He will never leave nor forsake. That is why this unsound doctrine is not about what it says, it is talking about actual idolatry for the reason God gave them up in Verse 23, of Chapter 1 in Romans, but I know we don't want to go over that again, lol.

No, you are right there is no reason to point out one more time that it says they were given up to the lusts of their hearts, which were man lying with man and woman lying with woman.

My family and friends have told me that I seem like a totally different person, and in a really good way they said!

That's nice. So that means that it is ok or that you aren't feeling the war between God and the devil now, because you turn the truth into a lie, like Romans 1 speaks of?

Have a great weekend, and hopefully we will talk in private too, I like that a lot.

You too.

PMing will be fine, because I truely am not sure this here is where the Lord wants me right now. I will continue to pray about, tho.

​

 

[Myriah]

I really don't think you get how hurtful this doctrine is. It teaches that gay people were given up to a reprobate mind, and God is done dealing w/them, and they are not of His anymore. It is cherry picking to say that it is just a "thorn in the side". If it was only a thorn, I would have a strong attraction to the opposite sex. How can one explain that? you might be able to call SSA a sin to act upon, but then you would have to explain why one would ONLY have attraction to the same sex, which the Bible DOES NOT talk about!

You said that God cannot be in the presence of sin, yet He is with me now, and the Bible makes it clear in Romans that nothing can separate you from the love of God, and that He will never leave nor forsake. That is why this unsound doctrine is not about what it says, it is talking about actual idolatry for the reason God gave them up in Verse 23, of Chapter 1 in Romans, but I know we don't want to go over that again, lol.

My family and friends have told me that I seem like a totally different person, and in a really good way they said!

Have a great weekend, and hopefully we will talk in private too, I like that a lot.

God cannot be in the presence of sin? Well, what was Jesus doing then? Whoever tells you that Dave, well I disagree with them. Jesus came to me in sin. The Holy Spirit is love thy neighbor as thyself and peace and don't be greedy. Don't you see greed is what makes us kill each other? Watch Marie Antoinette; it's a movie.

And to Kathy (savedandhappy1), we are all still sinners even though we try out best every day... no one will ever be perfect except for Jesus Christ.

When Jesus says "be ye perfect as I am perfect" he was speaking to the apostles about pride and prejudice. The apostles first thought Jesus was an earthly king of the Jews and they later realized he was the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world, and even unto us "ugh, at the time" gentiles, too. God is no respector of person's nor our works. All the glory goes to God for his son Jesus Christ.

 

[davedjy]

God cannot be in the presence of sin? Well, what was Jesus doing then? Whoever tells you that Dave, well I disagree with them. Jesus came to me in sin. The Holy Spirit is love thy neighbor as thyself and peace and don't be greedy. Don't you see greed is what makes us kill each other? Watch Marie Antoinette; it's a movie.

And to Kathy (savedandhappy1), we are all still sinners even though we try out best every day... no one will ever be perfect except for Jesus Christ.

When Jesus says "be ye perfect as I am perfect" he was speaking to the apostles about pride and prejudice. The apostles first thought Jesus was an earthly king of the Jews and they later realized he was the Messiah, the Savior of the whole world, and even unto us "ugh, at the time" gentiles, too. God is no respector of person's nor our works. All the glory goes to God for his son Jesus Christ.

Amen, beautiful post!

My words were twisted around on me in a previous post, I never said any of those other things...I realize we deal with a dark force, but why am I going to say that w/homosexuality? I don't believe that is what is going on, so obviously there isn't a spiritual realm involved with that, lol.