-
Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
so...
- Thread starter tulc
- Start date
- Status
FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
Who said debating something promotes it? That's nonsense. Debate something debates it. You condone whatever side you're on and thats about it. If anything, debating is allowing yourself some open-mindedness to hear what the other side thinks and then refuting it. Of course here I'm not so sure about the listening to the other side since most debates on this forum, everyone has their mind made up and Jesus Himself coming down and actually saying who's right wouldn't change their mind.
If this forum closes, I'll be horrified. Because people are so obsessed with winning this unwinnable argument, to close it would to some people say "HA WE WON THAT'S WHY THEY CLOSED IT". And then if they change the Nicene code on the forum to not forbid encouraging homosexuality, everyone on that side would do the same thing. The only possible way to keep this far and NOT turn people into jerks is to keep it open and let them vent.
Here's an idea, all you people saying "YEAH CLOSE IT": Ahem. STOP POSTING. They're not going to keep a forum open if theres no one posting or no debate! If you REALLY want it closed for GENUINE reasons, then you'd do that and get on with your lives! But no. The reason is so you can rub it in the faces of the other side like it's some sort of trophy. Just stop posting and maybe eventually it'll be closed. But until then, suck it up. This forum is going to stay here. I'm going to make SURE it stays here because otherwise those sore because it closed will just pour into the other forums and suddenly we have a giant war in the forums.
Geez, what is WRONG with acting like adults once in a while? I think I got it out of my system.
If this forum closes, I'll be horrified. Because people are so obsessed with winning this unwinnable argument, to close it would to some people say "HA WE WON THAT'S WHY THEY CLOSED IT". And then if they change the Nicene code on the forum to not forbid encouraging homosexuality, everyone on that side would do the same thing. The only possible way to keep this far and NOT turn people into jerks is to keep it open and let them vent.
Here's an idea, all you people saying "YEAH CLOSE IT": Ahem. STOP POSTING. They're not going to keep a forum open if theres no one posting or no debate! If you REALLY want it closed for GENUINE reasons, then you'd do that and get on with your lives! But no. The reason is so you can rub it in the faces of the other side like it's some sort of trophy. Just stop posting and maybe eventually it'll be closed. But until then, suck it up. This forum is going to stay here. I'm going to make SURE it stays here because otherwise those sore because it closed will just pour into the other forums and suddenly we have a giant war in the forums.
Geez, what is WRONG with acting like adults once in a while? I think I got it out of my system.
Upvote
0
I never saw that in theology rules over the past 5-6 months. I thought that in the previous rule change, under the previous site owner Erwin, the requirement that arguments be based on the Nicene Creed had been dropped. I joined CF after that happened, apparently, but several posters talked about this rule change and how controversial it was at the time. Now the forums have made another rule change back in the other direction, and it's also controversial.
Upvote
0
...so any time people disagree about a doctrine one of them is right and one is in sin?
tulc(that doesn't sound right either)
Upvote
0
Zaac
Well-Known Member
...so any time people disagree about a doctrine one of them is right and one is in sin?
tulc(that doesn't sound right either)
Didn't say that either. I'll say the exact same thing I say when folks say we can agree to disagree: No we can't . Somebody is wrong and God is right. And if you're not aligned with God, you're wrong.
Homosexual fornication is just simple. As controversial as many try to make it, it ain't complicated. It is a sin because God says so, and no amount of word studies or unordained non-husband/wife marriage posturing will ever change this.
Its just the way things are. We don't have to like it. But I side with God knowng what is best whether we like it or not.
Upvote
0
BreadAlone
Hylian Knight
- Aug 11, 2006
- 8,207
- 702
- Faith
- Lutheran
- Marital Status
- Private
Upvote
0
Really?
So...not adhering to the "truth" you say we all have in our hearts isn't a sin?
...then you can be the one that's wrong in the discussion? Unless you are always in perfect alignment with God? By agreeing to disagree people are saying "As much as I know, this is true but being a fallible human I could well be wrong, maybe we just need to agree we wont know until we stand before the Lord?" Your view seems to be saying "Where we agree, you're right and where we disagree you're wrong."
in other words "I don't have to study any deeper then a superficial reading of the Bible to know I'm right and anyone who disagrees is in sin!"?
tulc(wow, I don't think that's completely true)
Upvote
0
Zaac
Well-Known Member
I didn't say that.
You said:
so any time people disagree about a doctrine one of them is right and one is in sin
They might both be wrong and in sin. That's why I said God is right and if you're not aligned with His Word, you're wrong.
Ahh my good fella. This is why I quote Scripture. God doesn't unalign Himself.
By agreeing to disagree people are saying "As much as I know, this is true but being a fallible human I could well be wrong, maybe we just need to agree we wont know until we stand before the Lord?" Your view seems to be saying "Where we agree, you're right and where we disagree you're wrong."
Naah. yall just trying to be tolerant of everybody's viewpoint. I'm simply notcalled to be tolerant of that which isn't aligned with God. my view is saying God is right and where you disagree with the FULL COUNSEL of God's Word, you're wrong.
in other words "I don't have to study any deeper then a superficial reading of the Bible to know I'm right and anyone who disagrees is in sin!"?
tulc(wow, I don't think that's completely true)
Delivering God's Truth should be about directing people to the same page that HE is on, not the same page YOU are on.
Upvote
0
FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
I feel like, I'm just constantly ignored. I'd at least like to know if the reason you're not responding is because my argument is so absurd. Or if it's because it's so amazing you can't come up with a response.
Upvote
0
...uhmmm yeah. I'm not seeing how that's a problem.
I agree.
I agree with that. And since we don't agree you obviously are wrong.
But since I don't have a problem with that you're welcome to your opinion. tulc(have a great night!)
Upvote
0
BAFRIEND
Well-Known Member
faithlikenarock:
No, ahem, the issue for me is not homosexuality it is Christianity. As long as people here claim that homosexuality is morally correct in a Christian context then I will stay and defend my religion. Homosexuality and the gay lifestyle is historically incompatible for thousands of years in Judaism and Christianity, is incompatible with the teachings in the Bible, is an objective moral disorder.
That is why we say close it. Because by being open, the folks on the moral side of the argument perceive a perpetual lie against our Lord and religion. As long as it is open we will continue to stay here and be attacked for defending our faith while the other side are being attacked for defending an objective moral disorder.
No, ahem, the issue for me is not homosexuality it is Christianity. As long as people here claim that homosexuality is morally correct in a Christian context then I will stay and defend my religion. Homosexuality and the gay lifestyle is historically incompatible for thousands of years in Judaism and Christianity, is incompatible with the teachings in the Bible, is an objective moral disorder.
That is why we say close it. Because by being open, the folks on the moral side of the argument perceive a perpetual lie against our Lord and religion. As long as it is open we will continue to stay here and be attacked for defending our faith while the other side are being attacked for defending an objective moral disorder.
Upvote
0
B
BigBadWlf
Guest
As long as people here claim that homophobia is morally correct in a Christian context then I will stay and defend my religion. Homophobia and the prejudiced lifestyle is historically incompatible with the teachings of Jesus.
TO be an objective moral disorder it must be objective. But it is not nor can it be shown to be. You are subjective in your prejudices and your (flimsy) justifications for your prejudice. to continue to be an objective moral disorder homosexuality must be moral. It is amoral, just like heterosexuality, left handedness, freckles and perfect pitch. to be an objective moral disorder it has to be a disorder, and no legitimate medical psychological or social professional association believes it is. In fact they all reject the notion.
since when is telling the truth and confronting false witness with evidnce an attack?
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Good. The Nicene Creed is and always has been the most widely recognised base core statement of Christianity and sadly many claim to be Christian who deny it. This is a major problem for the church especially when some churches ordain non-believers, who of course have no true authority which comes form Christ.
What we must discern is the deception such as those, even bishops, who can say the Nicene Creed because it connects them with the past but in fact they dont say it because they believe it by their own admission.
Is this what God's word says is a form of worship without the power, lips that praise but hearts and lives far from God honouring God, rather dishonouring in sexual immorality and idolotry of pluralism
What we must discern is the deception such as those, even bishops, who can say the Nicene Creed because it connects them with the past but in fact they dont say it because they believe it by their own admission.
Is this what God's word says is a form of worship without the power, lips that praise but hearts and lives far from God honouring God, rather dishonouring in sexual immorality and idolotry of pluralism
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
You see thats a lie. Thats the different gospel, Jesus Christ's NT teaching affirmed God's purpose is woman for man (ie Matt 19) and that same-sex sex is sin (ie. Romans 1, 1 Cor 6) It also says that Christians should not judge and disassociate from the sexually immoral in the world (1 Cor 5) but in the church. Now no true believer here hates or persecutes homosexuals except in knowing and saying same-sex sexual unions are error and wrong. Also with some of us we have gay and lesbian friends and love and serve them. The idea that is homophobia therefore is false testimony and a lie. Inded if that is the case homophobia is good when a homophobe gets out of bed in the night to help one of their gay and lesbian friends who has aksed for help.
So true Christian believers dont see Jesus Christ as a homophobe, but some of those who dont believe do and falsely testify against true believers
Upvote
0
The problem with this argument is that many Christians disagree with you about homosexuality. And to demand that a subforum be closed because you don't agree with other Christians on this issue is to cut off all dialogue and debate among Christians, based on your particular interpretation of your faith. That benefits no one, ultimately. Everyone loses the opportunity to share and discuss different Christian points of view.
Staying in one's cozy little house with people who believe exactly as we do may feel like comfort, but it's contrary to growth. We learn and grow by testing our ideas against other ideas, by considering other points of view, by challenging our own beliefs and reconsidering them. I don't believe that faith mean adherence to a rigid doctrine, an unchanging set of beliefs. We are all human, and all of our religious doctrines are wrong, because they are partial understandings of truth, never all of truth. All of our doctrines are mistaken. We grow in faith, I think, by always reconsidering our beliefs, by developing them over time in accordance with what we learn. And we learn best by discussing different viewpoints with each other. That's what I think.
Upvote
0
It's not a lie. Different Christians interpret the Bible differently. Someone else's understanding of the Bible is not a lie; it's just different from your understanding.
I don't agree with your interpretation of the Bible when it comes to gay people. The Bible says nothing at all about gay people or about same-sex marriage. You keep trying to stretch the Bible to fit your preconceptions about gay people. That's a giant leap of interpretation on your part: reading your beliefs about gay people and same-sex marriage into the silence of the Bible on this topic.
And then you label other people's understanding of the silence "a lie?" It's just a different understanding. People can differ in their beliefs from you and not be lying.
No one has called Jesus a "homophobe." They are pointing to the homophobia of some of the followers of Jesus, who try to use Jesus, and who distort the message of Jesus, to try to justify their own homophobia. I honestly do not see you doing that. I believe you when you say that you honor and respect your gay friends. But you are not all the Christians here or in the world.
Upvote
0
Not everyone agrees with the Nicene Creed. But if the site owner wants to impose creedal orthodoxy on the posts here, that's up to him, as he owns the site. I think it's unfortunate, as people grow best by hearing all points of view. But he owns the site, and he gets to decide what people can and cannot post on his site.
Upvote
0
FaithLikeARock
Let the human mind loose.
Why aren't you out there boycotting Fred Phelps then? You aren't defending your religion but your pride. How OTHER people worship is none of you business and doesn't affect YOUR religion at all.
The fact you're so worried about what other people do as Christians is questionable, but Christianity should be a PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP. You have no RIGHT to tell other people how to worship. You tell them you believe what they're doing is wrong, that you'll pray for them, and that's it. If they don't listen, not your problem. Especially if it's for a selfish reason like that. If it were because you wanted to save them then maybe you'd have something (I still wouldn't appreciate the stubborn persistence). But no. You want to save your religion.
Upvote
0
P
Phinehas2
Guest
Dear Ohioprof
No, as I said, Christians are necessarily dived on the issue and if they are some are clearly and obviously wrong. Much of your argument seems to be just contraditing personal opinion.
You see the problem is your views are not Christians yet your only basis of argument seems to be claiming it is.
This has nothing to do with homosexuality but an irreconcilable viewpoint with Christianity.
As to distiortion of the message, thats what you and others have done, the Bible says what it says and no amount of twisting can get it to condone same-sex sex.
No, as I said, Christians are necessarily dived on the issue and if they are some are clearly and obviously wrong. Much of your argument seems to be just contraditing personal opinion.
well it is a lie if Jesus Christ is the truth as I have demonstrated. Your argument is just your opinion not only with any evidence but based on disbelieving what the Bible says. It would help if you could address the Biblical evidence but you seem unwilling to even ackowldgethe Biblical evidence when presented to you, let alone respond.
Thats just your opinion about my opinion, of no interest to me, I cant debate with you of you wont address the reasons I have with why I disagree, namely the Bible.
You see the problem is your views are not Christians yet your only basis of argument seems to be claiming it is.
This has nothing to do with homosexuality but an irreconcilable viewpoint with Christianity.
indirectly of course they have, they are just objecting to the poster who quotes Jesus NT teaching which they think is homophobic.
As to distiortion of the message, thats what you and others have done, the Bible says what it says and no amount of twisting can get it to condone same-sex sex.
I couldnt care less what you think I am doing I am concerned about how I can serve Jesus Christ and account to Him.
Of course not, Non-Christians dont for a start
Upvote
0
- Status
Similar threads
