so you know more than the pope?

[simonthezealot]

Not sure what you mean by this so forgive if i offend you. Its not my intention, I'm just a little confused in all these posts. I just would like to add this:

The above words concerning the pope are not from the Holy bible, or are they?

The Mormons also have another book they read from besides the Bible, should i use their book or only the Bible that has been around since before the pope and Mormons?

Does the Bible know more than the Pope and the Mormons?

I'm not drawing conclusions, only adding some truth. And also Grace sustains us through this mess. If you Hope in Jesus and forget everything else, it would be better for many, especially non believers as it would remove unnecessary stumbling blocks whether or not those blocks are true or false.

No offense taken, the stuff i shared is offensive to me and should be to anyone... Rome holds itself above all other authority on earth answering only to God, and scarily they even consider things beyond scripture to be included in the term "word of God"

 

[Optimax]

No worries mate.
That is why I asked about the diff between a throne and a chair

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(throne)
occurs 176 times in 159 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 7 inexact matches (Gen 41:40 - 1Ki 2:33)

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(thrones)
occurs 9 times in 8 verses in the KJV

kings thrones pictures - Google Search

Picture of pope on throne

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/advent11oo8.jpg

 

[sunlover1]

Words should be carefully considered.

Holy Father

Head of the Church

Your sins are forgiven my son.

I must think in all honesty that reform is needed.

Many stumbling blocks must constantly be removed.

Words are ammo for the enemy, we must choose them wisely, and reform is always needed.

Funny how we both metioned stumbling blocks...hmmm

As in the rock of offense?

Luke 20:18
Everyone who falls on that stone will be broken to pieces,
but he on whom it falls will be crushed."


Matthew 21:45
When the chief priests and the Pharisees heard Jesus' parables,
they knew he was talking about them.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

From the Source:Lucius Ferraris "Papa," art. 2, in his Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica. ("Handy Library"), Vol. 5, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition, column 1823, Latin.

#1. "The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God."

#13. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions."

#18. "As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms."

#30. "The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws."

Also from the bull unam sanctum

'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: '

Is that the official position of the Catholic Church or the official position of Lucius Ferraris?

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

*snip*
I would Like to say that this mess concerning Catholic and Mormon teaching that is not found in the Bible and that are the very own words of God Himself that everyone does agree with which is the Gospel of Christ is watered down with theses stumbling blocks.

From what I have heard, Calvinism [esp. ultra Cavlinists] do not see much difference between Catholicism/EOism and Mormonism....they view each as a "cult"....sad but true

Catholicism and Mormonism

Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy are grounded in the same theological tradition.
They are similar to each other doctrinally and hold teachings that differ from Mormonism............

Tho I do think tulips are kinda kewl

http://www.christianforums.com/t7382164-126/#post52293555
CALVIN's 500th Birthday Thread

 

[godisreal36]

I would Like to say that this mess concerning Catholic and Mormon teaching that is not found in the Bible and that are the very own words of God Himself that everyone does agree with which is the Gospel of Christ is watered down with these stumbling blocks known as other books not being the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is the Word we should be teaching, forget your other books. God commands it i think, its HIS Will that the Gospel is our teaching without any stumbling blocks. may HIS will be done and not ours.

And i would like to add this as well:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I'm not saying your books are false, Just that they are not the Gospel and anything but the Gospel of Christ is all we should be teaching. Will you seek anything but the Gospel?

Allow me to me reiterate the truth.

and again

 

[Dark_Lite]

Is that the official position of the Catholic Church or the official position of Lucius Ferraris?

-CryptoLutheran

Simonthezealot cites pretty much anything that will confirm his preconceptions. Doesn't matter how out of context it happens to be. "Catholics think the Pope is God" has been dealt with so many times it's not even funny. Kind of convenient how he provides no actual link to the source and how they're all one-liners replicated over anti-Catholic sites, isn't it?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Picture of pope on throne

http://ivarfjeld.files.wordpress.com/2009/07/advent11oo8.jpg

Throne of the Patriarch of Constantinople, Church of St. George in Istanbul.

Here.

Throne of the Episcopal bishop of the Diocese of Springfield in Illinois.

Here.

It's almost like all bishops have a cathedra--chair--in their cathedrals. Almost as though it were to symbolize their episcopal authority.

All bishops have a chair or "throne". It's a symbol of their ecclesiastic office. That's why a cathedral is called a cathedral, it's where the bishop's cathedra is located. The Pope has one too, because he's the Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West, it's about as scandalous and shocking as the fact that cats have whiskers and birds lay eggs.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Stryder06]

It's almost like all bishops have a cathedra--chair--in their cathedrals. Almost as though it were to symbolize their episcopal authority.

All bishops have a chair or "throne". It's a symbol of their ecclesiastic office. That's why a cathedral is called a cathedral, it's where the bishop's cathedra is located. The Pope has one too, because he's the Bishop of Rome and Patriarch of the West, it's about as scandalous and shocking as the fact that cats have whiskers and birds lay eggs.

-CryptoLutheran

Those chairs are still a bit fancy wouldn't you say? I wonder if Peter had a throne?

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Simonthezealot cites pretty much anything that will confirm his preconceptions. Doesn't matter how out of context it happens to be. "Catholics think the Pope is God" has been dealt with so many times it's not even funny. Kind of convenient how he provides no actual link to the source and how they're all one-liners replicated over anti-Catholic sites, isn't it?

So I've noticed. The only online copies I could find when I googled the Prompta Bibliotheca were sites that specifically used it for anti-Catholic polemics.

I'm just curious how a Franciscan canonist becomes the be-all authority on the the Catholic Church's position on papal titles and authority. One would think that the best way to find that would be from official Church documents.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[daydreamergurl15]

It's not exactly like the Catholic Church is putting a gun at people's heads, telling them they can't get married and to join the priesthood. There is a discipline of priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, those who decide to become priests are making a personal vow to remain celibate.

As noted, there are married Catholic priests. Only the Latin Rite maintains celibacy as a discipline, the Byzantine Rite and other Eastern Rite Catholics can be married. There is also a special dispensation for Anglican priests coming over to the Catholic Church, as such there are a number of Catholic priests of the Latin Rite that are married due to that dispensation.

We can argue over it all we want, but nobody is forcing anybody to or not to do anything on this issue. The passage has nothing to do with volunteer celibacy.

-CryptoLutheran

The idea of "Priesthood" under the New Testament is wrong to began with (and I mean in the sense of the way the Catholics has it laid out). The only priesthood we see in the New Testament is when Christ is considered the Great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) and that the church is considered a "Royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9). There are no other priesthoods. Whether they do something that is voluntary or not, the idea of priesthood given in the new testament is not there.

But you guys might NOW let "Priest" marry (again, Priest is not even a leadership role in new testament given to man), but that was not always the case. And you can see that by just looking throughout history on the amount of priest that you have that were not married.

 

[godisreal36]

Allow me to me reiterate the truth.

and again

and again

 

[CryptoLutheran]

Those chairs are still a bit fancy wouldn't you say? I wonder if Peter had a throne?

Fanciness doesn't equal ungodliness.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[CryptoLutheran]

The idea of "Priesthood" under the New Testament is wrong to began with (and I mean in the sense of the way the Catholics has it laid out). The only priesthood we see in the New Testament is when Christ is considered the Great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14) and that the church is considered a "Royal priesthood" (1 Peter 2:9). There are no other priesthoods. Whether they do something that is voluntary or not, the idea of priesthood given in the new testament is not there.

But you guys might NOW let "Priest" marry (again, Priest is not even a leadership role in new testament given to man), but that was not always the case. And you can see that by just looking throughout history on the amount of priest that you have that were not married.

I don't know why you're saying "you guys". I'm not Catholic. I don't call my pastor a priest to begin with.

Though, for what it's worth, here's an etymology lesson:

Presbyteros is the Greek word that gets translated as "elder" in the New Testament. The word was brought into use in Latin from the Greek and so we get the word presbyter. In English this was shortened to prestor, and eventually became the English word "priest".

In Greek, Christian priests are still called presbyteroi.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[I die daily]

Is that the official position of the Catholic Church or the official position of Lucius Ferraris?

-CryptoLutheran

As he stated it holds the churches imprimature.
And showed the bull in a sense reinforces the same issue.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I don't know why you're saying "you guys". I'm not Catholic. I don't call my pastor a priest to begin with.

Though, for what it's worth, here's an etymology lesson:

Presbyteros is the Greek word that gets translated as "elder" in the New Testament. The word was brought into use in Latin from the Greek and so we get the word presbyter. In English this was shortened to prestor, and eventually became the English word "priest".

In Greek, Christian priests are still called presbyteroi.

-CryptoLutheran

Please don't tell me that the word "Priest" actually is translated "elder" because that's another issue entirely if we have single man being called "Priest" which is translated "elders".

There is a qualification to Elders, in 1 Timothy 3, so lets not go there.

And I apologize for calling you a Catholic, I thought of your avatar. I've seen some Catholics have those types of paintings in their avatars which are more along side the Catholic paintings.

 

[godisreal36]

I love Jesus and Gods Word known as the Holy Bible. We need Both new and old testaments for sure, but the Gospel found in the NT is the first message, the rest reinforces it and is sound doctrine as well, and the OT has proverbs and psalms and Prophets and stories that are good and very needed. But other books outside the Holy Bible just get in our Lord Jesus Christ way and should be thrown away.

 

[Yarddog]

Jesus was God and I'm pretty sure your traitions teach that Peter was celibate.

No, traditions says that Peter was married.

As for Paul and the other bishops, if they were like Paul, it was by choice.

It is by choice for all Catholics, whether they are clergy or not.

 

[Yarddog]

Wasn't Peter married?

Yes. He was married before Jesus chose him. Scripture tells of his Mother-in-law.

 

[godisreal36]

Now we come to the 33 page of this tread, the age of Jesus when He died.


I think so anyways. what does this have to do with anything? Maybe something, maybe nothing. But Its not Gospel so far as i can see so I'm leaving. Its been interesting.