so you know more than the pope?

[godisreal36]

I think the Catholic Church has much to consider reforming so that the gates of hell will not prevail against it, or just because its needed, not sure.. But as i said, its not my Church, you decide.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

As for why the Pope sits on a throne: all bishops sit on thrones of some kind or another. It is an ecclesiastical seat. See Cathedra - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thank you for answering my question and for the link.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It may be an over sized chair, LLOJ. I thought it looked more like a throne. Perhaps I'm mistaken.

No worries mate.
That is why I asked about the diff between a throne and a chair

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(throne)
occurs 176 times in 159 verses in the KJV
Page 1 / 7 inexact matches (Gen 41:40 - 1Ki 2:33)

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV
(thrones)
occurs 9 times in 8 verses in the KJV

kings thrones pictures - Google Search

 

[godisreal36]

Over sized Chair, lol , i love that. Appearances can be deceiving.

 

[daydreamergurl15]

I didn't say I agree with it, I'm just pointing out that it's not like the Catholic Church is forbidding marriage. Those verses cited aren't against the future Latin rite of the Catholic Church, they're against heretical groups extant at the time that were looking for the imminent end of the world and did, indeed, forbid marriage for everyone.

The scripture says what it says.
If a group is forbidding someone to marry, which rest assure the Catholics do, than I'm going to go and believe what the bible says about such a group.

 

[godisreal36]

Words should be carefully considered.

Holy Father

Head of the Church

Your sins are forgiven my son.

I must think in all honesty that reform is needed.

Many stumbling blocks must constantly be removed.

Words are ammo for the enemy, we must choose them wisely, and reform is always needed.

Funny how we both metioned stumbling blocks...hmmm

 

[simonthezealot]

And how do you know that?

From the Source:Lucius Ferraris "Papa," art. 2, in his Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica. ("Handy Library"), Vol. 5, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition, column 1823, Latin.

#1. "The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God."

#13. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions."

#18. "As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms."

#30. "The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws."

Also from the bull unam sanctum

'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the Apostle: '

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Over sized Chair, lol , i love that. Appearances can be deceiving.

Most chairs at either end of a dining table have arm rests from what I have seen, as do most or all thrones, tho I could be mistaken

Luke 22:30 That ye may eating and may be drinking upon the table of Me in the kingdom of Me
and ye shall be sitting upon thrones judging the twelve tribes of the Israel.

Young) Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given to them,
and the souls of those who have been beheaded because of the testimony of Jesus, and because of the word of God,
and who did not bow before the beast, nor his image,
and did not receive the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand,
and they did live and reign with Christ the thousand years;

 

[Melethiel]

Doesn't the bible say something about calling no man Father? If so, Isn't the pope just a man? And isn't Jesus the Head of the Church? Why do they say the pope is the head? I know the pope is under Jesus, but why take Gods title and why call Him the Head of the church when thats Jesus title? Why do they say the Pope is the Holy Father, isn't that Gods own title?

Does he not take two titles from our God and our Lord and Savior at the same time?

Can not only God forgive sins? if so where does the pope get his authority to do so? That is if he has that authority and I'm not just mistaken in some way.

Could this be why people say the pope thinks hes King?

Paul calls himself a father. Jesus is speaking about trust, not in calling someone by a title. Do you call your own father, "father"?

Jesus gives his servants the authority to forgive sins in his name - this doctrine is called the Office of the Keys, and is held by the majority of churches worldwide, not just Catholics.

Where does the Pope claim to be King? Are you slandering your brother in Christ without cause?

 

[simonthezealot]

Where does the Pope claim to be King? Are you slandering your brother in Christ without cause?

Documented above.

 

[Melethiel]

Documented above.

I see a bunch of quotes pulled from a book. I have no idea what the source of that is, or who wrote it.
Has the current pope ever claimed to be a King?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I see a bunch of quotes pulled from a book. I have no idea what the source of that is, or who wrote it.
Has the current pope ever claimed to be a King?

Perhaps we should make a thread on that

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=popes+who+proclaimed+to+be+king&btnG=Search&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=

 

[daydreamergurl15]

Paul calls himself a father. Jesus is speaking about trust, not in calling someone by a title. Do you call your own father, "father"?

Jesus gives his servants the authority to forgive sins in his name - this doctrine is called the Office of the Keys, and is held by the majority of churches worldwide, not just Catholics.

Where does the Pope claim to be King? Are you slandering your brother in Christ without cause?

Just because I like semantics, I will say this:
Jesus said "and call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven." (Matthew 23:9). That is speaking about calling someone "Father" as reverence to the Lord. And we know this because the bible have even called other man "father" in the old and new testament, meaning the physically genetic father not Father in the sense of Lord.

And technically Timothy never called Paul "father" Paul said he was like a "father" to Timothy raising him in the faith. He is not saying that he was like a "Father" to Timothy, as if Timothy is to give him reverence.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Thank you for the information you provided about the pope, simonthezealot. Would you please provide links to the sources? Thank you.

 

[godisreal36]

From the Source:Lucius Ferraris "Papa," art. 2, in his Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis, Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica. ("Handy Library"), Vol. 5, published in Petit-Montrouge (Paris) by J. P. Migne, 1858 edition, column 1823, Latin.

#1. "The Pope is of so great dignity and so exalted that he is not mere man, but as it were God, and the vicar of God."

#13. "Hence the Pope is crowned with a triple crown, as king of heaven and of earth and of the lower regions."

#18. "As to papal authority, the Pope is as it were God on earth, Sole sovereign of all the faithful of Christ, chief king of kings, having a plentitude of unbroken power, entrusted by the omnipotent God to govern the earthly and heavenly kingdoms."

#30. "The Pope is of so great authority and power, that he is able to modify, declare, or interpret even divine laws."

Also from the bull unam sanctum

'Behold to-day I have placed you over nations, and over kingdoms' and the rest. Therefore, if the terrestrial power err, it will be judged by the spiritual power; but if a minor spiritual power err, it will be judged by a superior spiritual power; but if the highest power of all err, it can be judged only by God, and not by man, according to the testimony of the
Apostle: '

Not sure what you mean by this so forgive if i offend you. Its not my intention, I'm just a little confused in all these posts. I just would like to add this:

The above words concerning the pope are not from the Holy bible, or are they?

The Mormons also have another book they read from besides the Bible, should i use their book or only the Bible that has been around since before the pope and Mormons?

Does the Bible know more than the Pope and the Mormons?

I'm not drawing conclusions, only adding some truth. And also Grace sustains us through this mess. If you Hope in Jesus and forget everything else, it would be better for many, especially non believers as it would remove unnecessary stumbling blocks whether or not those blocks are true or false.

 

[Stryder06]

Paul tells us that Peter had a wife that traveled with him. Not even tradition can trump that one.

That's what I figured, but I've been told that Peter, although he was married, became celibate once he became a disciple...

 

[simonthezealot]

I see a bunch of quotes pulled from a book. I have no idea what the source of that is, or who wrote it.
Has the current pope ever claimed to be a King?

I cited the source.

Prompta Bibliotheca Canonica, Juridica, Moralis,
Theologica, Ascetica, Polemica, Rubristica, Historica.
by
Lucius Ferraris​

I have the down load in latin. But the link above also shows a rough translation of the main 82 points of the Canonical encylopedia which does indeed hold Imprimatur stamp for the Church.

As to the new pope by acknowledgment of his coronation he did indeed accept the label that comes with the coronation.

 

[CryptoLutheran]

The scripture says what it says.
If a group is forbidding someone to marry, which rest assure the Catholics do, than I'm going to go and believe what the bible says about such a group.

It's not exactly like the Catholic Church is putting a gun at people's heads, telling them they can't get married and to join the priesthood. There is a discipline of priestly celibacy in the Latin Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, those who decide to become priests are making a personal vow to remain celibate.

As noted, there are married Catholic priests. Only the Latin Rite maintains celibacy as a discipline, the Byzantine Rite and other Eastern Rite Catholics can be married. There is also a special dispensation for Anglican priests coming over to the Catholic Church, as such there are a number of Catholic priests of the Latin Rite that are married due to that dispensation.

We can argue over it all we want, but nobody is forcing anybody to or not to do anything on this issue. The passage has nothing to do with volunteer celibacy.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[simonthezealot]

The above words concerning the pope are not from the Holy bible, or are they?

They are from works from the church of Rome (1 from a papal bull and 1 from a catholic encyclopedia) and they hold no water outside of her boundaries.

 

[godisreal36]

I would Like to say that this mess concerning Catholic and Mormon teaching that is not found in the Bible and that are the very own words of God Himself that everyone does agree with which is the Gospel of Christ is watered down with these stumbling blocks known as other books not being the Gospel of Christ. The Gospel is the Word we should be teaching, forget your other books. God commands it i think, its HIS Will that the Gospel is our teaching without any stumbling blocks. may HIS will be done and not ours.

And i would like to add this as well:

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth. For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving: for it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

I'm not saying your books are false, Just that they are not the Gospel and anything but the Gospel of Christ is all we should be teaching. Will you seek anything but the Gospel?