so you know more than the pope?

[AveMaria_45]

Brings to mind this verse in the first chapter of 1 Cor..
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

so all the people here that think they know better than the pope are foolish. you are right

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

so all the people here that think they know better than the pope are foolish. you are right

It matters not to me whether your Pontif presumes to know more than me or not.

 

[Stryder06]

you didnt read the first post? the point is,

"Theres a lot of people here who think they know everything about the Bible. so i looked up the pope and found this and i want to know who knows as much as he does"

so how about you?

You're right, I didn't read the first post. I glanced over it, but I don't read long posts, I just don't. I'm sorry for that. I try to keep my posts short and to the point as a courtesy to others.

The premise however is what I'm repsonding too. I know my credentials don't match up to the popes, I wouldn't even dare to think that. But of course that's if we're solely going on academics.

I believe my biblical knowledge isn't the greatest but sure isn't the worst. So do I know as much as him, overall, probably not. Does it matter? Not at all. I don't have to be a doctor to know when someone is sick. I don't have to be a Police man to know when someone is breaking the law. And i don't have to be theologian to know when someone is teaching incorrect doctrine.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

<snip>
Again, I hope I wasn't being offensive there, I just get really bothered by this because it seems as if one is putting their trust in man rather then God. You can't blindly follow someone else just because he says he has authority given him by God.

That is one reason I am not going to get too involved with this thread.
RCs seem to get a little too "defensive" concerning their Denomination.

 

[simonthezealot]

Like when Luther wanted to rip out the book of James, Hebrews and Revelation. He managed to get the deuterocanon. Don't know why he didn't go all the way with the NT too like how he truly wanted.

whatever, people were constantly debating canonicity at that time.

 

[Standing Up]

so all the people here that think they know better than the pope are foolish. you are right

Hey, you're talking about my bro Peter.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Hey, you're talking about my bro Peter.

NOOO! Don't start up on Peter!

http://www.christianforums.com/t6958045-5/#post51146994
Does the Roman Church focus on Peter too much [Thread moved]

 

[98cwitr]

yea that "corrupt" LXX that all the early Christians and apostles used. Too bad we all had to wait until the 16th century when the true KJV bible came along.

The protestants and baptists really need to have their own canon of the NT if they really want to be separated from the Church. Like when Luther wanted to rip out the book of James, Hebrews and Revelation. He managed to get the deuterocanon. Don't know why he didn't go all the way with the NT too like how he truly wanted.

KJV...rofflecopter

 

[HarryCovert]

That's my whole probem with this situation, and please don't misunderstand me. No where am I instructed to submit myself to the pope (A). (B) I see nothing in scripture that says I am not allowed to teach someone reagarding the things of the scripture. (C) The disciples were told to go out and make other disciples, they were not instructed to go out and setup another priesthood. (D) Saying "I believe his teachings are Spirit led, in my opinion, is only setting oneself up for a fall. It's obvious to see that certain things aren't led by or inspired by the Spirit if you simply check them against the scriptures.

Again, I hope I wasn't being offensive there, I just get really bothered by this because it seems as if one is putting their trust in man rather then God. You can't blindly follow someone else just because he says he has authority given him by God.

We see it differently, to be sure. I don't put my trust in the Pope, I put my trust in the Holy Spirit, who I believe puts His trust in the Pope. Again, this only applicable in matters of faith and morals. I generally avoid debate with Christians who are not RCC because of this fundamental difference in POV. I was merely trying to clarify what I thought was Ave's point and the position of the Church as I understand it, so no offense taken.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

His credentials don't mean squat before the eyes of the Almighty. His teachings could be considered genius but that wouldn't matter if his teachings weren't Spirit led.

Isaiah 29:13-14 says,

Therefore the Lord said: “Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths and honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me, and their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men, Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work among this people, a marvelous work and a wonder; For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.” (New King James Version)

I also like this version of the passage:

The Lord said, "These people claim to worship Me, but their words are meaningless, and their hearts are somewhere else. Their religion is nothing but human rules and traditions, which they have simply memorized. So I will startle them with one unexpected blow after another. Those who are wise will turn out to be fools, and all their cleverness will be useless." (Good News Bible)

And if the pope thinks his human knowledge and wisdom impresses God than he could take a lesson from the Apostle Paul and then follow his example here: "And I, brethren, when I came to you, did not come with excellence of speech or of wisdom declaring to you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified. I was with you in weakness, in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 1 Corinthians 2:1-5 (emphasis added)

 

[simonthezealot]

you must not be around many independent baptists, lol

That's offensive and broadstroking..
If anything the independent baptists i've met, better understand the immeasurable depth and width of scripture better than most, in that they understand it is inexhaustible..So how does one who understands the inexhaustiveness of scripture think they know it all?

 

[98cwitr]

We see it differently, to be sure. I don't put my trust in the Pope, I put my trust in the Holy Spirit, who I believe puts His trust in the Pope. Again, this only applicable in matters of faith and morals. I generally avoid debate with Christians who are not RCC because of this fundamental difference in POV. I was merely trying to clarify what I thought was Ave's point and the position of the Church as I understand it, so no offense taken.

Did you just say that the Holy Spirit puts His trust in the Pope? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Doesn't that insinuate that the Pope is higher than God?

 

[Stryder06]

We see it differently, to be sure. I don't put my trust in the Pope, I put my trust in the Holy Spirit, who I believe puts His trust in the Pope. Again, this only applicable in matters of faith and morals. I generally avoid debate with Christians who are not RCC because of this fundamental difference in POV. I was merely trying to clarify what I thought was Ave's point and the position of the Church as I understand it, so no offense taken.

I understand, I was just hoping that I wasn't coming off harsh. The fact is that there is a fundamental difference on how we view this which really will never lead to any type of middle ground.

 

[HarryCovert]

Did you just say that the Holy Spirit puts His trust in the Pope? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Doesn't that insinuate that the Pope is higher than God?

I was speaking rhetorically for literary effect. Of course the Pope puts his trust in the Holy Spirit and is certainly no higher than you or I in God's eyes, but that he has been given the keys of Peter.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Did you just say that the Holy Spirit puts His trust in the Pope? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Doesn't that insinuate that the Pope is higher than God?

Some even get "carried away" by it

Ezekiel 8:3 And He putteth forth a form of a hand and is taking me by a lock of my head, and a spirit is lifting me between the Land and the Heavens,
and is bringing me Jerusalem-ward in appearance of Elohiym to portal of gate, the inner, the one facing north-ward which there a seat of a figure/image of the jealously, the provoking jealously.

Reve 17:3 And he carries me away into a wilderness in spirit,
and I saw a Woman sitting on a beast, scarlet, being replete of names of blasphemy having heads, seven, and horns, ten.

 

[98cwitr]

But you said...and I quote: " I put my trust in the Holy Spirit, who I believe puts His trust in the Pope."

Keys of Peter

 

[simonthezealot]

Did you just say that the Holy Spirit puts His trust in the Pope? Shouldn't it be the other way around? Doesn't that insinuate that the Pope is higher than God?

Didn't you know the pope can declare divine law?
You should see my thread, "Pope, king of the world"
Laughable right?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

But you said...and I quote: " I put my trust in the Holy Spirit, who I believe puts His trust in the Pope."

Keys of Peter

http://www.christianforums.com/t7465159/
Peter and the Keys, Catholicism and the Pope (6)

 

[Giver]

Theres a lot of people here who think they know everything about the Bible. so i looked up the pope and found this and i want to know who knows as much as he does,


From 1946 to 1951 he studied philosophy and theology in the Higher School of Philosophy and Theology of Freising and at the University of Munich.

He received his priestly ordination on 29 June 1951.

A year later he began teaching at the Higher School of Freising.

In 1953 he obtained his doctorate in theology with a thesis entitled "People and House of God in St Augustine’s Doctrine of the Church".

Four years later, under the direction of the renowned professor of fundamental theology Gottlieb Söhngen, he qualified for University teaching with a dissertation on: "The Theology of History in St Bonaventure".

After lecturing on dogmatic and fundamental theology at the Higher School of Philosophy and Theology in Freising, he went on to teach at Bonn, from 1959 to1963; at Münster from 1963 to 1966 and at Tübingen from 1966 to 1969. During this last year he held the Chair of dogmatics and history of dogma at the University of Regensburg, where he was also Vice-President of the University.

From 1962 to 1965 he made a notable contribution to Vatican II as an "expert"; being present at the Council as theological advisor of Cardinal Joseph Frings, Archbishop of Cologne.

His intense scientific activity led him to important positions at the service of the German Bishops’ Conference and the International Theological Commission.

In 1972 together with Hans Urs von Balthasar, Henri de Lubac and other important theologians, he initiated the theological journal "Communio".

On 25 March 1977 Pope Paul VI named him Archbishop of Munich and Freising. On 28 May of the same year he received episcopal ordination. He was the first Diocesan priest for 80 years to take on the pastoral governance of the great Bavarian Archdiocese. He chose as his episcopal motto: "Cooperators of the truth". He himself explained why: "On the one hand I saw it as the relation between my previous task as professor and my new mission. In spite of different approaches, what was involved, and continued to be so, was following the truth and being at its service. On the other hand I chose that motto because in today’s world the theme of truth is omitted almost entirely, as something too great for man, and yet everything collapses if truth is missing".

Paul VI made him a Cardinal with the priestly title of "Santa Maria Consolatrice al Tiburtino", during the Consistory of 27 June of the same year.

In 1978 he took part in the Conclave of 25 and 26 August which elected John Paul I, who named him his Special Envoy to the III International Mariological Congress, celebrated in Guayaquil (Ecuador) from 16 to 24 September. In the month of October of the same year he took part in the Conclave that elected Pope John Paul II.

He was Relator of the V Ordinary General Assembly of the Synod of Bishops which took place in 1980 on the theme: "Mission of the Christian Family in the world of today", and was Delegate President of the VI Ordinary General Assembly of 1983 on "Reconciliation and Penance in the mission of the Church".

John Paul II named him Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and President of the Pontifical Biblical Commission and of the International Theological Commission on 25 November 1981. On 15 February 1982 he resigned the pastoral governance of the Archdiocese of Munich and Freising. The Holy Father elevated him to the Order of Bishops assigning to him the Suburbicarian See of Velletri-Segni on 5 April 1993.

He was President of the Preparatory Commission for the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which after six years of work (1986-1992) presented the new Catechism to the Holy Father.

On 6 November 1998 the Holy Father approved the election of Cardinal Ratzinger as Vice-Dean of the College of Cardinals, submitted by the Cardinals of the Order of Bishops. On 30 November 2002 he approved his election as Dean; together with this office he was entrusted with the Suburbicarian See of Ostia.

In 1999 he was Special Papal Envoy for the Celebration of the XII Centenary of the foundation of the Diocese of Paderborn, Germany which took place on 3 January.

Since 13 November 2000 he has been an Honorary Academic of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

In the Roman Curia he has been a member of the Council of the Secretariat of State for Relations with States; of the Congregations for the Oriental Churches, for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, for Bishops, for the Evangelization of Peoples, for Catholic Education, for Clergy and for the Causes of the Saints; of the Pontifical Councils for Promoting Christian Unity, and for Culture; of the Supreme Tribunal of the Apostolic Signatura, and of the Pontifical Commissions for Latin America, "Ecclesia Dei", for the Authentic Interpretation of the Code of Canon Law, and for the Revision of the Code of Canon Law of the Oriental Churches.

Among his many publications special mention should be made of his "Introduction to Christianity", a compilation of University lectures on the Apostolic Creed published in 1968; "Dogma and Preaching" (1973) an anthology of essays, sermons and reflections dedicated to pastoral arguments.

His address to the Catholic Academy of Bavaria on "Why I am still in the Church" had a wide resonance; in it he stated with his usual clarity: "one can only be a Christian in the Church, not beside the Church".

His many publications are spread out over a number of years and constitute a point of reference for many people specially for those interested in entering deeper into the study of theology. In 1985 he published his interview-book on the situation of the faith (The Ratzinger Report) and in 1996 "Salt of the Earth". On the occasion of his 70th birthday the volume "At the School of Truth" was published, containing articles by several authors on different aspects of his personality and production.

He has received numerous "Honoris Causa" Doctorates, in 1984 from the College of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minnesota; in 1986 from the Catholic University of Lima; in 1987 from the Catholic University of Eichstätt; in 1988 from the Catholic University of Lublin; in 1998 from the University of Navarre; in 1999 from the LUMSA (Libera Università Maria Santissima Assunta) of Rome and in 2000 from the Faculty of Theology of the University of Wroc&#322;aw in Poland.

You want to know what is so sad about all you shared about the pope? Nowhere in all that you shared was it mentioned where God taught him. All you shared about him is his head knowledge.

You shared how much he studied about God, from what man has taught about God.

Paul told us that one couldn’t come to know God unless God teaches him or her about God.

(1 Corinthians 2:10-16) “These are the very things that God has revealed to us through the Spirit, for the Spirit reaches the depts. Of everything, even the depths of God. After all, the depths of a man can only be known by his own spirit, not by any other man, and in the same way the depths of God can only be known by the Spirit of God. Now instead of the spirit of the world, we have received the Spirit that comes from God, to teach us to understand the gifts that he has given us. Therefore we teach, not in the way in which philosophy is taught, but in the way that the Spirit teaches us: we teach spiritual things spiritually. A spiritual man, on the other hand, is able to judge the value of everything and his own value in not to be judged by other men. As scripture says;’ who can know the mind of the Lord, so who can teach him?’ But we are those who have the mind of Christ.”

 

[HarryCovert]

I understand, I was just hoping that I wasn't coming off harsh. The fact is that there is a fundamental difference on how we view this which really will never lead to any type of middle ground.

I would hope not "never" but it is a sizeable gulf.