so what's with this notion part ll

benedictaoo · Mar 4, 2012

I think the Church does not know beans about what, where, when, and how about a homosexual. I think the Church only knows infallibly that sex between two ppl of the same sex is seriousness sinful and it a sin.

past that- we just do not know and how ancient Jews and Christian ppl just filled in those blanks with their own made up stuff, wow. What have we done?

WarriorAngel · Mar 4, 2012

benedictaoo said:
I think you re just splitting hairs here. They are gay. Period. They are gay and they do not have to hide it. We have to stop thinking to be gay in society is to be the anti Christ.

what they have to do, like you and me, is just be chaste in what ever it is they are called to.

If they choose to marry a women because they can't be priests anymore thanks to Benedict scape goating them with the sex abuse of kids, if they don't want to be alone, and want to have some kids, we should be at a pleace where they can be open and frank about it with who they marry, and not hide it nor should they go out and get a G/F or a wife just to cover up their gayness from us.

we have to accept them and we are not at a place where we do.

We need to get over this notion that we should not have to look at them.

Are you suggesting the scriptures err...and modern day speak knows better than the men Christ Himself established as the first teachers with the Advocate reminding them of all things??

We are to what...?
PUT on the new man...which is take off the old one who is filled with sin and attachment to sin.

WarriorAngel said:
Ephesians 4:24
And put on the new man, who according to God is created in justice and holiness of truth.

Colossians 3:10
And putting on the new, him who is renewed unto knowledge, according to the image of him that created him.

Mark 2:21
No man seweth a piece of raw cloth to an old garment: otherwise the new piecing taketh away from the old, and there is made a greater rent.

18Romans 13:14
But put ye on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make not provision for the flesh in its concupiscences.

19Ephesians 6:11
Put you on the armour of God, that you may be able to stand against the deceits of the devil.

Final conclusion - put away sin, leave it in the past and put God in your heart and live for Him alone....resist the sins from the fall and see yourself as the NEW person living in Christ.

And for those might not realize - the length of stay you have in purgatory - is the attachment you have to sin.

If you cling to the attachment - you could be there til the end of time.
Or merely 40 years - according to our comprehension.
Or ten years or just 30 Masses said.

The more attached we are to flesh the more we have to burn away in the spirit to be in the spirit world.

Advice: let go. It does not define you....your desire to be close to God - and life for Him - that defines you.

benedictaoo · Mar 4, 2012

No, I'm suggesting you err with self interpretations. and I'm not suggesting but saying, you need to get over the fact that people are born with SSA.

They do not need to change themselves or hide themselves for you.

What they need to do is a be celibate if they can not bring themselves to marry a woman or a man if its a Lesbian.

what we need to do is get over it and accept them for who and what they are, homosexual and Lesbian children of God.

If they do not have a sexual and/or inappropriate relationship with a person of the same sex, they can be gay all they want since that is NOT a sin.

You want them to act straight, be straight, think straight, feel straight and that is NOT going to happen.

BabyChristian22 · Mar 4, 2012

benedictaoo said:
I think the Church does not know beans about what, where, when, and how about a homosexual. I think the Church only knows infallibly that sex between two ppl of the same sex is seriousness sinful and it a sin.

I think the Church has had more time to think about it than any of us have had in this short life.

benedictaoo · Mar 4, 2012

what ever... they do not know what makes a homosexual, a, well, homosexual. JPll only just now in 94' said that being one is not a sin... acting on it is.

so please explain to me why can't they be gay and be celibate? why do they have to hide themselves away form everybody? Or deny/change what and who they are?

BabyChristian22 · Mar 4, 2012

benedictaoo said:
what ever... they do not know what makes a homosexual, a, well, homosexual. JPll only just now in 94' said that being one is not a sin... acting on it is.

so please explain to me why can't they be gay and be celibate? why do they have to hide themselves away form everybody? Or deny/change what and who they are?

You are arguing against a straw man. The Church doesn't teach that a homosexual can't be celibate. In fact, it's the gay activists who insist that it's impossible for them to be celibate.

benedictaoo · Mar 4, 2012

ah, I never said that they can't be and I never said the Church said they can't be. what I said was, they do not need to change themselves, just be celibate.

BabyChristian22 · Mar 4, 2012

benedictaoo said:
ah, I never said that they can't be and I never said the Church said they can't be. what I said was, they do not need to change themselves, just be celibate.

Who said that people have to change their SSA? What I've been saying is if they can then great, but if they can't then they are called to the celibate life.

WarriorAngel · Mar 4, 2012

Can someone deeply into porn give it up?
Can a sexually immoral hetero give it up?

And when they give it up - and chose God - do they think as a child with innocent thoughts turning away from sinful thoughts.
Did Jesus not say 'SUCH as these...' will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

It is not hard to see He was referring to all ppl who think in innocence.

Our thoughts can be sinful. We ask forgiveness of our thoughts in the Creed.

When you think of nothing, no kind of sexual interlude - but keep your mind from all carnal things like an innocent child - you are no longer SSA - but rather no sex attracted - via the Lord.

benedictaoo · Mar 5, 2012

BabyChristian22 said:
Who said that people have to change their SSA? What I've been saying is if they can then great, but if they can't then they are called to the celibate life.

WarriorAngel said:
Can someone deeply into porn give it up?
Can a sexually immoral hetero give it up?

And when they give it up - and chose God - do they think as a child with innocent thoughts turning away from sinful thoughts.
Did Jesus not say 'SUCH as these...' will inherit the Kingdom of Heaven?

It is not hard to see He was referring to all ppl who think in innocence.

Our thoughts can be sinful. We ask forgiveness of our thoughts in the Creed.

When you think of nothing, no kind of sexual interlude - but keep your mind from all carnal things like an innocent child - you are no longer SSA - but rather no sex attracted - via the Lord.

there you go baby. SSA is not a comparison to porn addiction.

A call to be celibate life if they can not marry and have kids... that is what they are expected to do... just like the rest of us who are not sacramentally, and/or lawfully married are supposed to do.

For some reason some people in this universe believe those who have SSA to be some kind of freak of nature that needs to not only remain chaste but to deny what they are.

I do not recall any teaching from anywhere or anyone who has teaching authority, say that a gay person should deny a SSA to the point they are A sexual.

Please!

The cat, spinster lady who never got married isn't asked to become a A sexual, why are gay people asked this?

Answer: becuase some people in this world actually think that just having a SSA is a sin when the CCC said IT'S NOT!

They do not have to become A sexual, they just have to be chaste just like WE ARE.

I can be celibate if I wasn't married but I would have to control my thoughts, my actions like any other person- why are they different?

I never truly understood what a homophobe was until now. Now I get what it is to be one.

FranciscanSpirit · Mar 5, 2012

WarriorAngel said:
Can someone deeply into porn give it up?
Can a sexually immoral hetero give it up?

But they aren't "into porn" or "sexually immoral." They are just like you. Except they are attracted to the same gender. Do you think you should give it up - being straight? Let's see now, how exactly would you do that? Stop being a sexual being altogether?

Maybe you could blind yourself, have your sex organs removed and go around with a bag over your body.

Yeah, that'd do it!

When you think of nothing, no kind of sexual interlude - but keep your mind from all carnal things like an innocent child - you are no longer SSA - but rather no sex attracted - via the Lord.

You do it first and show us all how. Maybe start a blog so we can all learn from you.

JacktheCatholic · Mar 5, 2012

FranciscanSpirit said:
But they aren't "into porn" or "sexually immoral." They are just like you. Except they are attracted to the same gender. Do you think you should give it up - being straight? Let's see now, how exactly would you do that? Stop being a sexual being altogether?

Maybe you could blind yourself, have your sex organs removed and go around with a bag over your body.

Yeah, that'd do it!

You do it first and show us all how. Maybe start a blog so we can all learn from you.

Paul, the Apostle, is a man and was chaste (celibate) and had no problems with being chaste and being man. For that matter... Jesus is fully man and virgin too. I do not see the problem with even a married couple becoming celebate if that is where God leads them.

WarriorAngel · Mar 5, 2012

FranciscanSpirit said:
But they aren't "into porn" or "sexually immoral." They are just like you. Except they are attracted to the same gender. Do you think you should give it up - being straight? Let's see now, how exactly would you do that? Stop being a sexual being altogether?

Maybe you could blind yourself, have your sex organs removed and go around with a bag over your body.

Yeah, that'd do it!

You do it first and show us all how. Maybe start a blog so we can all learn from you.

It takes grace to not look at others with any kind of attraction. Start by praying the Our Father slowly saying the words 'lead us not into temptation'
I used to be quite interested - but time keeps working on me and i find i am not bothered by extremely nice looking folks at all now.

When i used to read great advice by Catholics and Saints - is how i worked on it.
One such advice was when you see an attractive person [and i am married so looking at others is also a sin for me] i read to say 'Thank you Lord for making them beautiful.' and then move along without another thought about them.

People are merely people now. Some appeal to the eyes, but there are no rushes in the heart or stirrings that if i didnt learn to reel myself in, i would still have.
SO I guess though i could be attracted - i don't think about it at all anymore.

You dont need my advice, you need to read the advice of Saints. Or some sound teaching on how to avoid anything that would lead to an attraction.
The simple prayer i said for a long time worked.

Its really all in HOW much you want to do it.

WarriorAngel · Mar 5, 2012

BTW - it is a long stretch to suggest that sins of the flesh are not comparable.

A porn addict struggles and not only with needing to see it, but in how they relate to the gender they view porn on.
They have the added bonus of mental illness of breaking away from the visions of porn to not see the ppl they are attracted to as anything but objects.

Struggles are struggles - we dont quantify or qualify who has it harder.

Porn addicts may never be able to have a balanced perspective or normal relationship with someone of the opposite sex. They can marry - but the sin of viewing could harm the marriage. Thats a life long struggle even in the bounds of marriage. The perversions they bring into the marriage objectifies their spouse.

Hetero's and homo's alike have different but very real crosses to bear.

Just because one doesnt understand the other does not make one's heavier, or ones lighter for only God knows what the person is able to handle...to suggest which cross is nearly crippling.
BUT None are impossible to overcome.

It depends on how much you want it, what you will do to work away from it and how deeply you trust in the Lord as you seek His aid.
DO not pray with anxiety - but with trust.

benedictaoo · Mar 6, 2012

FranciscanSpirit said:
But they aren't "into porn" or "sexually immoral." They are just like you. Except they are attracted to the same gender. Do you think you should give it up - being straight? Let's see now, how exactly would you do that? Stop being a sexual being altogether?

Maybe you could blind yourself, have your sex organs removed and go around with a bag over your body.

Yeah, that'd do it!

You do it first and show us all how. Maybe start a blog so we can all learn from you.

Clearly, its evident to me that this is just a personal issue one may have with homosexuals... its a personal disgust. Just do not speak for the Church.

How many priest are in fact gay? It kinda makes this a, not dealing with reality, issue.

benedictaoo · Mar 6, 2012

WarriorAngel said:
It takes grace to not look at others with any kind of attraction. [/COLOR]

But where, when did the Church ever say a person, gay or straight has to do this to make it to heaven?

I don't recall ever reading that we, if we are unmarried, if we have to become A sexual in order to make it to heaven.

This is an advocacy for something very crazy, IMO. We do not have to stop being human beings who have attractions to be a saint or make it to heaven.

WarriorAngel · Mar 6, 2012

Jesus said 'IF you even look at a woman with lust you have committed adultery'....

AND HE said 'Pluck out your eyes if it causes you to sin for it is better to go to Heaven with no eyes than have eyes and go to hell.'

THAT is a serious implication that our lusts which are caused from seeing someone - will lead us to hell.
IF you dont know this basic teaching from Jesus - then perhaps read scriptures again.

If nothing else - Jesus was forth right and less inclined to say 'Its ok, keep sinning'

NO< Jesus is MERCY IF and contingent upon IF our hearts are contrite for our sins and we avoid the sins.
'Go and sin no more' means 'DO not sin anymore'.
SO if someone is attracted to SS it is best to find ways to avoid the thoughts for two reasons
A) It causes lusts to concentrate on it
B) You are not contrite if you are still enjoying the fantasies.

Let's stop pretending mercy means we can sin and be in good standing.
ONE must take off the old man - the sins and attachments to the flesh - and put on the new man - the person who removes all attachments and thinks ONLY what pleases the Lord.

So if someone is putting on the new man or even plucking out there eyes - ie not looking at others - they are no longer SSA - they are Christian.

I dont know why you insist Christ had this wrong - or maybe you think His suggestion was harsh - but He never beat around the bush when it came to what does or does not cause us to go to Heaven or hell.

What does Paul mean by 'nor the effeminate' will go to Heaven.,,?

Let go of SSA and saying God doesnt understand them. He does better than we do and He says no - dont continue to sin, let it go....

FranciscanSpirit · Mar 6, 2012

JacktheCatholic said:
Paul, the Apostle, is a man and was chaste (celibate) and had no problems with being chaste and being man. For that matter... Jesus is fully man and virgin too. I do not see the problem with even a married couple becoming celebate if that is where God leads them.

And a gay man who is both celibate and chaste, has no problem being a man, as may have been true with either of the men you mentioned. A married couple can't be celibate unless they divorce. You are speaking of Josephite marriage. Not sure what your point was, as I was not the one promoting desexualization, only pointing out the problems with it.

FranciscanSpirit · Mar 6, 2012

WarriorAngel said:
SO I guess though i could be attracted - i don't think about it at all anymore.

Except with your spouse, I presume? So you do think about it. Also, learning to repress sexual response, is really not that much of a trick when you have a sex partner at home.

FranciscanSpirit · Mar 6, 2012

WarriorAngel said:
BTW - it is a long stretch to suggest that sins of the flesh are not comparable..

Being gay is not a sin. Your position is that gay folks should somehow stop being gay. It's not enough for you that they practice chastity, they have to be neuter. Somehow.

Or have you decided differently?

so what's with this notion part ll

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