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So what's the US doing?

2PhiloVoid

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I thought I was clear about the impenetrable word salads being a waste of time.

I don't think I'm guilty of serving up all that many word salads. If anything, I'm misinterpreted.

If I'm at fault for not being erudite enough in my ramblings, perhaps you're the one atheist who can show me the error of my ways and teach me how to be more penetrable?
 
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Freth

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Weapons that are much less effective at killing large numbers of people. Do you imagine that the individual in Texas would have been able to bludgeon 21 people to death as easily as he shot them?

Possibly, if he had the appropriate weapon. Fear goes a long way toward freezing people in place, and it is definitely possible for 21 people to die at the hands of, say, a machete, or a spiked club. Hands and feet? Have you seen martial arts movies? (yes, I'm joking)

I get it. Removing guns potentially stops mass casualties, but it does nothing to address the core issue, which is undiagnosed/untreated lunacy.
 
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Desk trauma

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I don't think I'm guilty of serving up all that many word salads. If anything, I'm misinterpreted.

If I'm at fault for not being erudite enough in my ramblings, perhaps you're the one atheist who can show me the error of my ways and teach me how to be more penetrable?
Nope.
 
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JosephZ

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Please define what an assault weapon is.
It varies and there is no universally accepted definition, but in my personal opinion the definition from the proposed Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 is acceptable.

  • All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.
  • All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
  • All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  • All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
 
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Tom 1

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undiagnosed/untreated lunacy.
Not many of these shooters are actually insane though. There are a lot of good things about the US of course, but the disproportionate number of serial killers, mass killings and so on can't just be fobbed off as a problem with the individuals involved. The 'everyone's an individual' kind of thinking seems to be part of the problem. Gun owners who use their guns responsibly don't see why they should give them up because of what a small but pretty significant number did. And that's just one example of how people don't appear to recognise they are living in a society, a changing and developing society like any other. Hence all the appeals to a supposed golden age, when only certain groups in society bore the brunt of the violence. But mature societies don't operate like that. For a society to function the people living in it need to recognise they aren't special snowflakes, whose pet rights somehow trump everyone else's.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Not many of these shooters are actually insane though.
... Tom, you might need to actually present your documentation on this point. I'm kind of feeling that the latest slew of mass killings in the U.S. have been done by individuals with unstable mental states.
 
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Tom 1

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... Tom, you might need to actually present your documentation on this point. I'm kind of feeling that the latest slew of mass killings in the U.S. have been done by individuals with unstable mental states.
Unstable doesn’t mean insane, or diagnosable. What percentage of shootings are carried out by people who have an actual diagnosable condition that would come under the heading ‘insane’? Things like depression, anxiety and so on describe things experienced by a great many people, all over world, and the tendency for people with low-level diagnoses is to be less violent than the general population. The usual kind of ‘oh it’s just the odd crazy person’ just doesn’t come close to explaining it. I’ll find some interesting stuff to link to if you like, but not today, it’s late here and I have other stuff to do.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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Unstable doesn’t mean insane, or diagnosable. What percentage of shootings are carried out by people who have an actual diagnosable condition that would come under the heading ‘insane’? Things like depression, anxiety and so on describe things experienced by a great many people, all over world, and the tendency for people with low-level diagnoses is to be less violent than the general population. The usual kind of ‘oh it’s just the odd crazy person’ just doesn’t come close to explaining it. I’ll find some interesting stuff to link to if you like, but not today, it’s late here and I have other stuff to do.

Yes, I get that. But with some bonafide research in one hand to present and a DSM-5 in the other, then I'm sure your point will be more impactful.

Keep in mind, I'm thinking about what happened in Texas (or even at Columbine High School decades ago) at the current moment.
 
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Tom 1

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Yes, I get that. But with some bonafide research in one hand to present and a DSM-5 in the other, then I'm sure your point will be more impactful.

Keep in mind, I'm thinking about what happened in Texas (or even at Columbine High School decades ago) at the current moment.
Sure, ok, I’ll find something interesting to post about it.
 
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Hammster

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It varies and there is no universally accepted definition, but in my personal opinion the definition from the proposed Assault Weapons Ban of 2013 is acceptable.

  • All semiautomatic rifles that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: pistol grip; forward grip; folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; barrel shroud; or threaded barrel.
  • All semiautomatic pistols that can accept a detachable magazine and have at least one military feature: threaded barrel; second pistol grip; barrel shroud; capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip; or semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm.
  • All semiautomatic rifles and handguns that have a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
  • All semiautomatic shotguns that have a folding, telescoping, or detachable stock; pistol grip; fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 5 rounds; ability to accept a detachable magazine; forward grip; grenade launcher or rocket launcher; or shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
So it’s really just aesthetics.
 
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trophy33

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Yes, and I know that's not your fault just as the blame for past atrocities of the church cannot be laid at the present Christians feet. I only present it because I believe that's the real purpose behind the 2nd amendment - to defend against tyrannical government, should it ever arise.
Government has no power without people supporting it.

If the majority of people will be civilized (also in army and police), then no tyrannical government will ever get to power in the first place and nobody would obey their unconstitutional instructions in the second place.

The thought that automatic guns between common people are the solution against tyranny is probably tied to American colonial history (i.e. as a defense against the external colonial army), but not applicable to modern democracies.

The real solution of our times against any kind of internal tyranny are great education, stable and functional families and acting ethically in daily life (loving your neighbor).
Social safety nets like free healthcare, free education, good and cheap public transport or elementary support during unemployment so that people do not become homeless or hungry are certainly helping for people to be more happy and are practically a standard in any developed country.
 
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JosephZ

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So it’s really just aesthetics.
No, because the weapons described in that definition are capable of killing a lot of people in a short amount of time. An AR-15 for example, with a forward grip and a detachable magazine allows a shooter to literally drill rounds accurately into a group of people and reload without giving anyone the opportunity to disarm them. The high muzzle velocity of an AR-15 combined with a light bullet causes catastrophic damage when it enters a human body. Banning these types of weapons wouldn't put an end to mass shootings, but it would reduce the number of casualties and the number of deaths that result from them.
 
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Rachel20

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The thought that automatic guns between common people are the solution against tyranny is probably tied to American colonial history (i.e. as a defense against the external colonial army), but not applicable to modern democracies.

This is the only point you made that I disagree with. I think it's deluded to think "modern democracies" are past the danger of repeating the past. And scripture sure wouldn't support it because the worst time ever on earth is yet future. But I'm on board with the others - education, stable familes, safety nets, ...
 
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Brihaha

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I don't believe most Americans want to ban guns altogether. We merely want that "well regulated" clause to actually be enforced! Because presently it is not enforced. Make it more difficult to obtain lethal firearms, not easier. This is not too much to ask for. We will have to demand change at the ballot box. Gun violence is about to create many one issue voters in America. Hopefully soon.
 
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trophy33

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This is the only point you made that I disagree with. I think it's deluded to think "modern democracies" are past the danger of repeating the past.
I am actually not sure what do you think that rifles between people will do against tyrannical government, i.e. against full equipped army (tanks, jets, hellicopters...), police, secret services and at least the half of common population that pays taxes and allow the government to exist. It seems to me that the idea of armed citizens against their own government is really from the colonial times.

And scripture sure wouldn't support it because the worst time ever on earth is yet future. But I'm on board with the others - education, stable familes, safety nets, ...
I think the opposite - Scripture is teaching that the kingdom of God will grow like yeast in a dough. And stats are supporting it - the world is better than ever before.
 
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2PhiloVoid

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I am actually not sure what do you think that rifles between people will do against tyrannical government, i.e. against full equipped army (tanks, jets, hellicopters...), police, secret services and at least the half of common population that pays taxes and allow the government to exist. It seems to me that the idea of armed citizens against their own government is really from the colonial times.


I think the opposite - Scripture is teaching that the kingdom of God will grow like yeast in a dough. And stats are supporting it - the world is better than ever before.

If only I was post-millennial or amillennial, I might actually jump for joy.
 
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Rachel20

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If only I was post-millennial or amillennial, I might actually jump for joy.

Right, it's a matter of eschatological view. Unfortunately I'm old enough to see the difference between past and current generations. We're not getting better. We're ruder, more selfish, more idolatrous, etc... pretty much what Paul described would be the cause of the coming "perilous times".
 
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