So what does this mean

[raven1]

No he wasn't. He said honest doubters are forgiven. Meaning ones who genuinely just don't see God as rational. Not ones who just who just don't want to live a decent life.

 

[raven1]

No I cannot. I have tried to for three years I am tired it's impossible it doesn't make sense to me. Gracealone I am not like that. I don't think oh no if I do exposure I may become athiest. I already do exposure exercises everyday of my life for three years and I am desensitized already. I am a tiny bit afraid to give up on God, that it may land me in hell if it somehow exists but mainly I can't see how anything supernatural can exist. How is faith a choice I can't make myself believe and I can choose to but that's lying.

 

[kodadog1024]

Then, if you want to be with God now, and forever, then you ask Him now for help, whether you believe or not. It doesn't matter at this point. You pray to God, alone, and tell Him, you can't do this. You've tried and tried and nothing has happened. Now, you put this into His hands and wait. You tell God to MAKE a believer out of you. You only need to do this once. BUT, if you don't want to be close to God, and you want to be an atheist, then you make that choice. If there is just a tiny bit of that passion inside of you to know and love Christ, to know God, to fullfill your spiritual restlessness, then ASK for faith. And whether you believe or not, He will give it to you.

 

[hollyda]

Hi Hollyda,
Funny thing is that I've used the spider analogy too to help me understand my OCD. I'm also really terrified of spiders but I've also tested myself by doing some level of exposure to them. I started gardening and forced myself to weed the plants even if a spider was very near my hand. Then I went from that to forcing myself to kill them in the house instead of calling my husband. I graduated from using the vacumn hose if they were up high or dropping a phone book on them if they were on the floor to being able to kill them with toilet paper.
I had a big set back a few years ago when I got bit on the neck by this enormous spider which gave me a reaction and the docs. in the ER thought it was a brown recluse. I don't really think it was. I think it was just possibly a huge pine spider. Anyhow my spider fear escalated for quite some time and I did a lot of checking compulsions related to it. I mean ALOT. Then I just said.. I'm not going to do this anymore so I began to work on desensitizing myself again. I'm doing pretty good again and am now able to kill them once again with a bunch of wadded up toilet paper. I've yet to touch or hold a tarantula but I just know that if I could bring myself to do it I'd completely conquer that fear. My point... exposure works for all obsessional fears even simple phobias.
With pure O we have a phobic response to our thoughts and the only way to get over that is to do exposure exercises that centers on the theme of those thoughts. This is scary stuff cause we have to go into that kind of exercise still being afraid that the thoughts might really be true.
It always feels like risky business.

Mitzi

I find the spider analogy very beneficial for me when it comes to spiking on my own terms, because I am so terrified of them. And because of the record heat wave in Missouri this year, we did get an influx of spider activity in our house (AND we live in "Reclusia," where there are brown recluse infestations and the like). Most of the time I scream for my husband to kill them, but on occasion I've been able to kill them on my own.

I used to be MUCH worse than I am now -- I'd check the ceilings and walls in every room I entered. If a spider was spotted in my room, I'd sleep elsewhere. Gradually, my arachnophobia became less severe, though I do experience anxiety spikes from time to time. And I've even thought of doing exposures like holding pet tarantulas, but I don't know if I could do that without screaming and killing it. Then I'd have to pay for a dead spider.

If a spider had bitten me, though, as it did you, I'd be much worse off in my spider fears than I am at present. So MAJOR kudos to you.

Pure O is definitely more difficult to understand, but it's the same fear responses that kick into gear. The fear I experience when confronted with a spider is the same primal fear I experience when my OCD comes out to play, and the fears are equally irrational. There's a sliver of a chance what you fear is real. But there's also a sliver of a chance a comet will wipe out humanity tomorrow. We can't base our lives on fearing what might happen. That's not living. That's waiting for death.

Love your insight on OCD it's always spot on. And I also love that you remain respectful of our faith in Christ. My faith teaches me to treat all people with honor and respect because they are valuable to God and I think it's very honorable that you do the same.

Thank you, that means a lot. This part of the forum, for me, is divorced of religious undertones. I try to respond to everyone as a fellow OCD sufferer, not as an atheist on a Christian forum. The last thing I'd want to do is lead someone with scrupulosity away from their faith. That's beyond irresponsible and, moreover, downright cruel.

 

[raven1]

I am so confused part of me does want that and part of me says you dont even want to ask that because u know he isnt true.

 

[hollyda]

I am so confused part of me does want that and part of me says you dont even want to ask that because u know he isnt true.

You were diagnosed with OCD. Do you have any plans to see a therapist?

 

[raven1]

I have been seeing someone for about a month. Dr.philliapsons intern. We actually start exposure today in fifteen minutes on Skype.

 

[hollyda]

I have been seeing someone for about a month. Dr.philliapsons intern. We actually start exposure today in fifteen minutes on Skype.

Good. Listen to what your therapist says and don't diagnose yourself.

 

[raven1]

So i talked to my therapist. See you guys tell me to do exposure to sit with the idea of going to hell but i have i am already desensitized to it. I dont have an emotional reaction to that. Its just i notice it but have no emotional response to it. She said maybe I will get back my faith and maybe I wont. Why cant if God exists cant he just realize some peoples brains cant believein him. I am supposed to think about five different scenarios five times a day for 30 seconds each to which i could die and go to hell for. My five fears are planes accidents, car accidents, dying of a heart attack, dying of an ulcer and dying by being struck by a vechile and in all these scenarios i go to hell and none of this tells me if God is there or not or where i will go when i die. Woo Hoo!

 

[Ribosome]

I think you are in a better state now than you were before with all your intense anxiety, raven.

If you are not constantly in a state of worry and fear, that is good. Now you can actually think more clearly, it is now possible for you to study apologetics in peace and decide what is true for yourself with a clear mind.

You say you don't believe Jesus walked on water, or that God created the universe. Why do you think that? If you choose to believe that just cause that's what scientists believe, know that science is based on a lot of faith as well, on things that there is no way to prove. For example, science presupposes that all there is to reality is matter and energy... science can't prove that, but that is what scientists chose to put their faith in and believe. Also, in order for science to work, science has to presuppose that nature is uniform, but there is no way to prove that as well. Science is one big belief! So don't go thinking that science is right and Christianity is not true. If God is real, he can make miracles happen, because he is the creator of the universe and he sustains the universe, and Jesus is God, that is why he could perform miracles, the universe is under his full control.

I recommend that you get this book and study it slowly... click this link: I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist

 

[raven1]

Hey Grant I have been desensitized for st least a year I have no emotional or physiological response to hell. The idea just kinda floats in my head. I actually believe in God less now than ever. I have read that book twice. Dear God if you are there which I don't believe and don't even now y I am saying this, save me. I have knocked.

 

[kodadog1024]

Hey Grant I have been desensitized for st least a year I have no emotional or physiological response to hell. The idea just kinda floats in my head. I actually believe in God less now than ever. I have read that book twice. Dear God if you are there which I don't believe and don't even now y I am saying this, save me. I have knocked.

Michelle, God won't let you down. He loves you too much. You'll see. You watch. His love is coming your way like a locamotive train. You can't stop it.

 

[raven1]

I basically just prayed to a God I don't believe in and asked him to do something I don't think he can. I basically just wish he could be there.