• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

SO THERE IS NO SCRIPTURE THAT TEACHES GOD'S 4TH COMMANDMENT IS ABOLISHED? THEN WHO SHOULD WE BELIEVE

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by LoveGodsWord, Mar 19, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    No it's not a sin to not keep the 7th day sabbath for the Christian. The reason is because that covenant isn't what a Christians is governed by. The prophet says the new covenant won;t be like the new covenant. This is a reference to contents of the covenant. So effectively two prophets say the sabbath will cease. Jeremiah in 31:32 self defines and limits verse 31 to something other than the covenant made with their fathers.

    31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

    32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

    33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

    Israel was exiled for breaking the covenant law given at Sinai. Moses very clearly says it is the famous 10.

    Hosea 2:11 I will also cause all her mirth to cease, her feast days, her new moons, and her sabbaths, and all her solemn feasts. This is the same list in Lev 23 and elsewhere in the OT.

    This is the weekly sabbath of the famous 10 number 4. It's correctly called her sabbaths because the sabbath was given strictly to Israel evidenced by the famous 10 and Ex 31:13, 17. In the giving of the famous 10 only Israel was present. Read Ex 19 and 20.

    We have two agreeing witnesses to establish this fact.

    Although the sabbath is mentioned in the NT, there's no requirement to observe it.

    The subject of Heb 4 is about rest. The weekly sabbath isn't mentioned. The word "sabbatismos" has nothing to do with the weekly sabbath. It's a typology kind of word specifically about a type of rest. So it doesn't say the sabbath remains. Paul can't say it does and also say - But we are now delivered from the law... Nor can he warn about returning to the law making Jesus of no effect. Such statements make it clear Paul didn't teach obligation to the law.
     
  2. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hello brother Hammster, I think Carl already answered this question for you but it is not a hard one to answer if you know how God's WORD defines what sin is *1 JOHN 3:4; ROMANS 7:7; ROMANS 3:20. God's 4th commandment is one of God's 10 commandmetns that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken. If we break it just like any other of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11.

    This being said; there is a difference between known sin and unknown sin *ACTS 17:30-31; JAMES 4:17. God has his people in all churches that are living up to all the knowledge that God has revealed to them *JOHN 10:16 and He knows that many break His 4th commandment out of IGNORANCE because they do not know any better. In times of IGNORANCE God winks at until he gives us a knowledge of the truth. At this time he expects us to believe and follow His Word.

    JESUS says that the hour is coming and NOW when the true worshippers will worship him in Spirit and in truth according to his WORD *JOHN 4:23-24.

    God is calling his people out from following man made traditions that break the commandments of God back to following him according to his Word *REVELATION 18:1-5.

    Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to knowingly or unknowingly break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we knowingly follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9.

    There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.

    God bless.
     
  3. Hammster

    Hammster He is risen! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +13,573
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    Short answers are fine. If I need clarification, I’ll ask. ;)

    So it’s a sin. What’s your understanding on those who sin intentionally without repentance?
     
  4. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    This has already been responded to ad nauseum. I've no idea why you keep presenting it.
    What exactly does this mean to you? Jesus is talking to the woman at the well. Jesus isn't talking about place or time.
    This isn't a call to Judaism or even a call to leave religious institutions only to join another.

    MK 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:
    Are you saying worshiping on Sunday is evil? How does this break the command of God for the Christian, seeing we have a different covenant that doesn't require observing the 7th day sabbath.
    Hos 2:11. It just doesn't say when. However Jeremiah says there will be a completely new and different covenant that Jesus says is now current. Jer 31 and LK 20
     
  5. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    The NEW COVENANT is not like the OLD COVENANT; No more animal sacrifices and sin offerings; No more ceremonial laws from the Mosaic book of the law *DEUTERONOMY 31:24-26; EXODUS 24:7. You are mixing up your SHADOW laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW COVENANT that give us the knowledge of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 4:4. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT God's 4th commandment is one of the 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is and if we knowingly break any one of God's Commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11; ROMANS 3:19-20.

    Hope this helps.
     
  6. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    The SABBATHS being referred to here are not God's 4th commandment but the ceremonial Sabbaths connected to the ANNUAL FEAST DAYS. This is shown in the CONTEXT of the scriptures in both COLOSSIANS 2:16; EZEKIEL 45:17 and HOSEA 2:11. If you look at the context of each of these scripture you will see that they are identical with each one linking the sabbaths <plural> to the ANNUAL FEAST DAYS of LEVITICUS 23.

    The MOSAIC BOOK of the COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 included ANNUAL ceremonial sabbaths (not God's 4th commandment) which were not God's 4th commandment and could fall on any day of the week depending on the yearly cycle that the ANNUAL FEASTS of LEVITICUS 23 commenced.

    These ceremonial sabbath pointed to JESUS and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COVENANT and were linked to;

    * ANNUAL FESTIVAL OF THE BLOWING OF TRUMPETS * LEVITICUS 23:24
    * ANNUAL DAY OF ATONEMENT * LEVITICUS 23:32
    * ANNUAL FEAST OF TABANACLES (BOOTHS) * LEVITICUS 23:39


    You are mixing up the SHADOW cermonial laws from the MOSAIC BOOK of the OLD COVENANT *EXODUS 24:7 with God's ETERNAL LAW in the NEW COVENANT that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20.

    A detailed scripture response has already been posted in this thread in post # 103 linked click me and post # 104 linked click me if you want a detailed scripture response looking at within scripture and chapter context. This post is only a summary. Please feel free to respond if you disagree.

    It is the ANNUAL FEASTS that were to come to an end as they are fulfilled in Christ and God's plan of salvation in the NEW COCENANT, not Gods 4th commandment which is one of God's 10 commandments that give us the knowledge of what sin is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  7. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    God's ETERNAL LAW was indeed given to ISRAEL. Sadly though your argument here is trying to say that ALL of God's 10 commandments are only for God's ISRAEL in the OLD COVENANT. This argument is like saying that the 10 commandments are not a requirement for God's people today in the NEW COVENANT and yet God's LAW is taught by JESUS and the Apostles all through the NEW COVENANT in the TESTAMENT scriptures from Matthew to Revelation click me.

    God's ETERNAL LAW in the NEW COVENANT gives us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4. According to God's WORD in the NEW COVENANT if we break any one of God's 10 commandments we stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11 and sin will keep all those who knowingly practice it out of God's kingdom *HEBREWS 10:26-27.

    God's ISRAEL is still the same it has always been. ISRAEL is only a name given by GOD himself *GENESIS 35:10 to his people which means he shall rule as God. In the NEW COVENANT all those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD *JOHN 3:15-21; MATTHEW 11:28-30 are God's ISRAEL *EPHESIANS 2:11-13; GALATIANS 3:28-29; ROMANS 9:6-8; ROMANS 2:28-29; COLOSSIANS 3:11; ROMANS 10:11-13; EZEKIEL 36:26-27; JEREMIAH 31:33-34. If we are not a part of God's ISREAL we have no part in the NEW COVENANT *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Gentiles are now grafted in *ROMANS 11:13-27.

    A detailed scripture study on God's Israeal can be found here linked click me
    .

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  8. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    We must read different bibles :).

    HEBREWS 4 is all about God's weekly SABBATH
    and defines God's rest in HEBREWS 4:1-5 as being the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH.

    [1], Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into HIS REST, any of you should seem to come short of it.
    [2], For to us was the gospel preached, as well as to them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
    [3], For WE WHICH BELIEVE ENTER INTO REST, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
    [4], For he spoke in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And GOD DID REST THE SEVENTH DAY from all his works.
    [5], And in this place again, If they shall enter into MY REST.

    NOTE
    : CONTEXT is God's REST from the SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST OF CREATION (v4-5) and those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW GOD's WORD enter into God's SABBATH REST as GOD did on the SEVENTH DAY of the week. CONTEXT is GOD's SEVENTH DAY SABBATH REST and those who believe or do not believe God's WORD and enter into that rest.

    .........

    [9], SO THEN IT REMAINS FOR THE PEOPLE OF GOD TO KEEP THE SABBATH.

    SABBATH is the noun or description of the SEVENTH DAY that was blessed and made holy by GOD. It is God's WORD the defines what the SABBATH is in..

    EXODUS 20:10 BUT THE SEVENTH DAY IS THE SABBATH OF THE LORD YOUR GOD;

    Now notice Hebrews 4, verse 9: “There remains therefore a SABBATH rest to the people of God.” In verses 1, 3, 4 and 8, the Greek word for “rest” is katapausin. It means “rest.” But in verse 9, the Greek word for “rest” is sabbatismos, which is a Hebrew word—Sabbat, which means “the Sabbath”—combined with a Greek suffix—ismos, which means “a keeping of” or “a doing of.” Put together, sabbatismo means “a keeping of the Sabbath.” When correctly translated, Hebrews 4:9 should read, “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath to the people of God.”

    Sabbatismos is the verb of doing of the SABBATH (noun description) or the keeping of the Sabbath rest!

    We are delivered from the penalty of God's LAW which is death. We are not free to break God's LAW which is sin.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  9. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2019
  10. LoveGodsWord

    LoveGodsWord Well-Known Member

    +1,022
    Australia
    SDA
    Married
    Hi brother SeventhFisherofMen, nice to meet you here brother and thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. Did you know that the disciples met everyday of the week *ACTS 2:46-47? If the disciples met every day of the week does that make every day of the week is a holy day?

    The LORD'S DAY is the SABBATH DAY *MATTHEW 12:8.

    There is no scriptures in all of God's WORD that says that Sunday or the first day of the week is the LORD'S DAY just the same as there is no scripture that says God's 4th commandment of the 10 commandments that give us a knowledge of what sin is when broken has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

    Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us brother.

    God bless
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  11. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Active Member

    406
    +363
    New Zealand
    Christian
    Married
    Friend I think you misunderstood my answer... I was not referring to Sabbath keeping but rather to entering the Sabbath Rest which is a different matter. Those who didn't enter the Sabbath Rest were hindered by the sin of unbelief...

    Blessings,

    Carl Emerson.
     
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2019
  12. Hammster

    Hammster He is risen! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +13,573
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
  13. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    The New Covenant is a totally new and different covenant. It's not partly new, it's totally new. It doesn't promoted wickedness that existed before the law. Paul says not only are we delivered from the law, but even says to throw it out. Rom 7:6, Gal 4:30. We're not children of the bond woman (the law). Paul warns others about returning to the law saying it will void their salvation. Gal 5:2

    James says nothing about a requirement to keep the law or doing works of the law. Read the whole chapter which reveals works being those of respect and charity.
     
  14. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    These are lists of religious requirements. They aren't self defining statements. Sabbaths is plural because of the great number of weekly sabbaths in a year. The context is about the period of time and the obligations in that period. It's all the law or none of the law by the Apostles one of which is the or was a cutting edge teacher of the law, who wasn't excelled by any of his day.
    Who do you think you're trying to mislead? The famous 10 are part of the Book of the Law - Mosaic Book of the Covenant. The annual ceremonies were determined by the lunar calendar as the sabbath was. Arguments about Passover are based on the Gregorian solar calendar.
    So does the weekly sabbath.

    Mat 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

    29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

    30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    This was spoken to people observing the weekly sabbath that didn't have this rest it pointed to.
    No I'm not mixing anything. You're mixing and combining the covenants. Col 2:16-17 clearly calls the weekly sabbaths shadows you claim are done away with just like Paul.
    Those posts have been dealt with many times by Scripture.
    So was the weekly sabbath - Rom 7:6 which you refuse to acknowledge as truth. There's not a single passage in the NT requiring the keeping of any of the law.
     
  15. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    1 Tim 1:5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:

    6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain jangling;

    7 Desiring to be teachers of the law; understanding neither what they say, nor whereof they affirm.

    8 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully;

    9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

    10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

    11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

    This fully addresses the problem. By saying Christians are obligated to the law your claim is also Christians are wicked. The Scripture identifies Christians as righteous even though they sin. Rom 4. No I'm not endorsing sin nor teaching we can live a life style of sin.
    God changed the rules (covenant). So the famous 10 aren't eternal even for Israel. The law did its job and no longer has a task. Gal 3:24-25

    22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

    23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

    24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

    25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

    26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
    You keep presenting this error as the truth by ignoring the words in among them in your Romans reference. You also refuse to reference Heb 8:6-9 which exposed your error.
     
  16. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    :rolleyes: I think we have the same Bibles. We just follow different leaders.:)
    What exactly is "His rest?" Is it the weekly sabbath they kept? How seeing they couldn't enter that rest even though they kept the 7th day sabbath. Why would Jesus extend His invitation found in Mat 11:28-30 to people already observing the weekly repose from working? Neither your idea from Hebrews nor Jesus' invitation support you idea. Heb 4 doesn't mention the sabbath. Nor is it claiming to promote any holy day.
    The word in Gen 2 is "shabath" a verb which is also used to say the sabbath will cease. God didn't take a periodic rest and return to work as Genesis indicates.
    This quote is from the polluted Aramaic.
    The word used is "sabbatismos." This isn't a reference to the the weekly sabbath. The word "sabbaton" isn't found in Heb 4. There's also no implication about the sabbath.
    Sabbatismos isn't a Greek transliteration of the Hebrew shabbath.
    No it isn't. It's a typology word. The 7th day sabbath doesn't provide the rest of God, He swore they would never enter. They kept the 7th day sabbath.
    There is no basis for this found in Scripture.
     
  17. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    Only because they're ignored.
     
  18. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    He won't say.
     
  19. Hammster

    Hammster He is risen! Staff Member Site Advisor Supporter

    +13,573
    United States
    Reformed
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    If it’s important, he should.
     
  20. ace of hearts

    ace of hearts Well-Known Member

    +996
    United States
    Christian
    Private
    I think you said something about him hiding in his closed thread. He steadfastly refuses to discuss any ones post that doesn't agree with him.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...