So many questions! But good ones I hope!

[MaryMadeleine]

Hi!

So i haven't posted here in a while! And I'm not sure when I stop being a new Christian but I still feel fairly new as I am still asking questions....

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK? I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Many thanks in advance and God bless!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

For new and for all / old and new/ Christians and for everyone who wants what is best eternally,

the Bible is the standard, a good (the BEST!) source to learn what Jesus taught His students.

Old and New Testament. Go by what is written there, trusting the heavenly Father, by faith in the Messiah Jesus, The Savior, Our Redeemer !

 

[Athanasius377]

Hi!

So i haven't posted here in a while! And I'm not sure when I stop being a new Christian but I still feel fairly new as I am still asking questions....

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK? I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Many thanks in advance and God bless!

Congratulations on your upcoming baptism. It is a special day so dress as such. If your are going to be fully immersed I imagine you will be given proper attire. The Lord can baptize you in hobo get up and you’d still be as baptized as someone in a baptismal gown. So don’t sweat that aspect. Rejoice in the gift God has given you!

As to Christmas a lot of criticism you will here dates from a work in the 19th century by a hack named Alexander Hislop who didn’t have a clue of what he was talking about. I wouldn’t pay any attention to these criticisms. Yes the Church would often baptize pagan traditions and substitute Christian teaching for pagan ones. It shouldn’t bother you in my opinion. Rather rejoice in the incarnation of our Lord.

 

[Tolworth John]

Hi!

So i haven't posted here in a while! And I'm not sure when I stop being a new Christian but I still feel fairly new as I am still asking questions....

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK? I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Many thanks in advance and God bless!

It is great that yo are getting baptised. The baptismal classes you have been going to should have covered the issue of what to wear.
We used to use long whit gowns for ladies and ask the men to wear there cricket whites, bt very few men in the uk have cricket whites so we have dropped the idea of 'special' cloths.

It s a special day for you to publicly give your testimony of how and why you are a Christian.
That is what matters.

Christmas being pagan. Yes the mid winter festivalis pagan, as are the months of the year and days of the week.
What of it.
We worship in spirit and in truth, it doesn't matter if you are dressed in rags or the very bested hand made posh cloths, whether you worship simply or with the most elaborate ritual so long as you are truely worshipping Jesus.

 

[tturt]

Our society seems to want everything about Jesus removed. I'm not going to follow along. We're celebrating Christmas more than the year before. Christmastime people are generally more pleasant to each other. Religious songs are all about Him. You know what's in your heart.

Glad you are getting baptized. That's great. Encourage you to wear what's comfortable to you.

Thanks for the greetings. May God continue to bless you as well.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Hi!

So i haven't posted here in a while! And I'm not sure when I stop being a new Christian but I still feel fairly new as I am still asking questions....

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK? I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Many thanks in advance and God bless!

Concerning the second question. This video will give you some answers.

 

[eleos1954]

Hi!

So i haven't posted here in a while! And I'm not sure when I stop being a new Christian but I still feel fairly new as I am still asking questions....

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK? I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

No one knows what date Jesus was born. Here's a short explanation of why Dec 25th as his birth is celebrated. I would say it's not the date that is the issue ... how does one celebrate it? It's so commercialized .... we have a family meal and that's it ... spending family time together and ask the Lord to be present with us. No gift giving etc.

https://www.history.com/news/why-is-christmas-celebrated-on-december-25

Short article :
Many thanks in advance and God bless!

 

[coffee4u]

First congratulations on your upcoming baptism.

Assuming you are female, you want to be appropriately covered but not weighed down. I would wear a one piece swimsuit and over that a Tshirt and bike shorts. or maybe forgo the T shirt if your suit has a shelf bra built-in.

Christmas itself isn't pagan but the date and some of the other things attached to it are or were. This also goes for a lot of our daily life but we tend not to think on it. For example, wedding rings started out as pagan, the months of the year also. I think as Christians we can get caught up too far in worry over these things.

Colossians 2
So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths
21 “Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch!”? 22 These rules, which have to do with things that are all destined to perish with use, are based on merely human commands and teachings. 23 Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.

Romans 14:3
The one who eats everything must not treat with contempt the one who does not, and the one who does not eat everything must not judge the one who does, for God has accepted them.

I take this to mean that if we feel something is sinful, it becomes sin to us. So one brother eats or celebrates a day and another doesn't. But don't set down rules and put things aside to show how 'holy' you are. False humility is not what it's about.

As to Christmas my personal conviction many years ago was not to have a tree. When I first did this it was in weakness but since then I have gained more understanding. I still don't have a tree because I don't think it is needed nor part of Christ's birth but I don't not have it because 'it's pagan' or because of rules. The reasons why I don't have it have changed. If someone else has a tree I do not judge them for it. Pagans may have started the decorated tree, but it is just a tree, with decorations and nothing about that is intrinsically evil. I hope I am making some sense here.
We always gave 3 main gifts to our children to represent Christ's 3 gifts. We never let our children think that Santa was real but rather just a fun game like any other dress-up character. So yes they had a stocking from 'Santa' but they knew there wasn't really a jolly red man. We did the same for the Easter bunny. Who is also a pagan character as is the word Easter. Of course being in the Southern hemisphere we are helped by having the opposite seasons. Easter is an Autumn and Christmas is in summer.

I would suggest learning for yourself about the pagan roots of some of the side things. If you know what I mean about side things. Christmas is Christ born. The tree, the food, the gifts, the day they picked, those are the sides. Don't put things aside simply because they have pagan roots or were once pagan because you will find just like the month of the year that these things are part of life. As a new Christian, you can drive yourself crazy and end up in legalism. Being a Christian isn't about a set of rules but about a relationship with God. We are saved by God's grace, not by keeping rules. If you feel something harms that or you feel great unease about it partaking in, put that away.

1 Corinthians 8
9 Be careful, however, that the exercise of your rights does not become a stumbling block to the weak. 10 For if someone with a weak conscience sees you, with all your knowledge, eating in an idol’s temple, won’t that person be emboldened to eat what is sacrificed to idols? 11 So this weak brother or sister, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. 12 When you sin against them in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother or sister to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause them to fall.

Apart from not making a weaker brother or sister stumble you can also take from this how your own faith may change. It's possible that what you put aside now in weakness in some years you may find as faith gets stronger that this is no longer a stumbling block to you.

Learn about Christmas but also pray about it. Do what feels right but also don't be surprised if this changes at some point.

 

[Athanasius377]

Concerning the second question. This video will give you some answers.

Yep, that's Alexander Hislop non-sense that refuses to die. By the way, the actual article in the Catholic Encylcopedia (there is no 1911 edition, just volumes that were released that year) can be found here.

Christmas - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online

I take a dim view of this video and its creators because the quote besides the first few words is not from the article.

Here's an even better video:

 

[MaryMadeleine]

Thank you all for your responses! I have just been told to wear whatever is comfortable but wasn't sure if a baptism dress was more formal or appropriate but I greatly appreciate all of your answers!

Also, thank you for your explanations on Christmas! Even though my family were not Christian in the sense of attending church and praying daily; I was always brought up to believe that it was to celebrate the birth of Christ. At school we attended church every year and sang songs about the Lord and Jesus but I've found as the years go on, young people are told less and less about Christ and more express alternative thinking. (I work in a college by the way, and very few students know anything about Jesus)!
I will watch the videos but I understand all of your explanations and I will fully celebrate it as a day for Jesus

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Thank you all for your responses! I have just been told to wear whatever is comfortable but wasn't sure if a baptism dress was more formal or appropriate but I greatly appreciate all of your answers!

Also, thank you for your explanations on Christmas! Even though my family were not Christian in the sense of attending church and praying daily; I was always brought up to believe that it was to celebrate the birth of Christ. At school we attended church every year and sang songs about the Lord and Jesus but I've found as the years go on, young people are told less and less about Christ and more express alternative thinking. (I work in a college by the way, and very few students know anything about Jesus)!
I will watch the videos but I understand all of your explanations and I will fully celebrate it as a day for Jesus

Let me throw out something for you to think about. There is a reason why it was never stated when Jesus was born to Mary. I do not think God wanted us to focus on a particular day as the birth of Christ because the fact is that Jesus existed from the beginning. Jesus coming here to earth was just his mission in the plan of salvation. So I think his mission and what he did while on earth should be more of the focus as opposed to the day he came to earth. The video i posted gives good advice to the end of how a Christian should approach Christmas so when you look at it I hope at least that part makes sense to you.

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Yep, that's Alexander Hislop non-sense that refuses to die. By the way, the actual article in the Catholic Encylcopedia (there is no 1911 edition, just volumes that were released that year) can be found here.

Christmas - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online

I take a dim view of this video and its creators because the quote besides the first few words is not from the article.

Here's an even better video:

I just watched the video and wondered why the church looked so familiar!!!

 

[Athanasius377]

If you want to commemorate the birth of Our Lord on Christmas go ahead. If the name bothers you remember the better name is Nativity. I loathe the commercialization of the season (it’s actually 12 days long on the Church calendar-Nativity to Epiphany). And I agree it is a later addition than say Easter (From the German Oester meaning basically Eastern). Christmas was gradually added to calendar and was celebrated at different times. The Copts in Egypt celebrate nativity on January 6. I think the rule of thumb here is there is nothing wrong with holiday ( from Holy day) in and of itself. If it is becoming an occasion to sin then now we are talking about not celebrating the day. The aversion from celebrating Christmas come from the Puritans in England mostly and was inherited by Early Americans. And to be fair though I think the objections are misguided there are huge problems with secular Christmas seeping into the church.

In short it is something that is neither commanded nor forbidden. But be careful with videos such as the one presenting as fact historical fiction above. That video in my estimation borders on deceitful. To be clear I do not think the person who posted had that intention. Rather it’s one of those well produced internet videos posing as history that so many fall for.

anyway. God bless you and your upcoming Baptism.

 

[Athanasius377]

I just watched the video and wondered why the church looked so familiar!!!
View attachment 266116 View attachment 266117

That looks like St Paul’s Lutheran in Cincinnati!

 

[Athanasius377]

Is this the one? @GreekOrthodox

 

[GreekOrthodox]

Yup! Thats where I grew up and was married in 26 years ago! I dont recall Horus attending my wedding though!

 

[Sketcher]

So, following on from previous posts... I am getting baptised through full immersion before Christmas! I am very happy with this and just wanted to ask something very superficial.... but is there something I should wear? I asked the reverend at my church and he said anything I like.... I have seen adult baptism gowns but do you think this is suitable for an adult baptism in the UK?

I can't speak for the UK since I haven't been there, but in the US, what's common are white baptism gowns provided by the church. Since they were white, and became semi-transparent when they got wet, dark and opaque clothes under the robes were highly encouraged. Eventually, my church dispensed with the robes and provided red t-shirts instead.

I want to be washed of all my sins by Jesus and I don't personally feel I could do that in a tshirt... but I'm unsure if I'm wrong.

God does the washing, he is not that picky. Wear clothes that will survive getting wet. A t-shirt and a pair of shorts will do nicely. Have a change of clothes for after.

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is.

Christians celebrated Christmas while pagans celebrated their holiday. We were doing our own thing all along. John Chrysostom also deduced the time we celebrate Christmas from calculations based on when Zechariah, the father of John the Baptist, would have had his vision. How accurate these are, I do not know - we did have to correct the calendar in the Middle Ages after all.

And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Many thanks in advance and God bless!

You are celebrating the birth of Christ - who is anyone to say that you're not? Who are they to judge your motives, whether it's for putting up a tree or a wreath or a nativity set? Who are they to judge why you give gifts to your family and friends when Jesus said it is more blessed to give than to receive (Acts 20:35)? Your heart belongs to God, as do your celebrations and your worship. If they want to give something to the pagans, that's their choice, but you, a person who loves the Lord, seem to have no interest in doing that.

 

[AvgJoe]

Also, I have seen so many posts on social media recently regarding how Christmas is a Pagan tradition before it was Christian... this is all new news to me as I always believed I was celebrating the birth of Christ! Would anyone be able to give me something to read or explain properly, 1. What the true history is. And 2. How I can justify to people that I celebrate it as the birth of Christ either without the argument of 'no, it belongs to pagans', or, my favourite 'prove it'!

Here's a good answer to your question~~~> Is Christmas a pagan holiday? | GotQuestions.org

 

[ViaCrucis]

Congratulations on your upcoming baptism. It is a special day so dress as such. If your are going to be fully immersed I imagine you will be given proper attire. The Lord can baptize you in hobo get up and you’d still be as baptized as someone in a baptismal gown. So don’t sweat that aspect. Rejoice in the gift God has given you!

As to Christmas a lot of criticism you will here dates from a work in the 19th century by a hack named Alexander Hislop who didn’t have a clue of what he was talking about. I wouldn’t pay any attention to these criticisms. Yes the Church would often baptize pagan traditions and substitute Christian teaching for pagan ones. It shouldn’t bother you in my opinion. Rather rejoice in the incarnation of our Lord.

Just to add to what Athanasius is saying here, a lot of the supposed "Pagan origins" theories that one finds, if researched critically, turns out to be nothing at all. It's somewhat shocking how many crank theories, long having been discredited by legitimate scholarship, are still being promulgated today.

The very few things that do are, frankly, incredibly superficial. And if we start worrying about things like that, we should start being worried about everything, even the very language we speak--after all, English originated as a language spoken by ancient Anglo-Saxon pagans.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ViaCrucis]

It may not be entirely necessary, but I thought I'd go about it anyway.

If one looks on the internet one finds all of these crank theories I mention in my previous post. Among these is usually the claim that December 25th was the birthday for all these various pagan gods and religious leaders from other religions. The list includes, but not necessarily is limited to: Horus, Adonis, Mithras, Buddha, and Krishna.

Some of these should be immediately recognized as being absurd for the simple fact that December is a month on the Roman calendar, and ancient Egypt and India didn't use the Roman calendar, they had their own calendars. So trying to say that Siddhartha (Buddha) was born on December 25th, and that therefore December 25th was celebrated by Buddhists as the birthday of the Buddha should (as an example) be the first immediate red flag that this is all hokum. But say one was curious, it's pretty easy to look up that Buddhists honor the Buddha's Birthday according to the ancient Hindu calendar, and that it takes place in the month of Vaisakha, which covers parts of the months of April and May on our calendar. Because the celebration follows this calendar, which is a lunisolar calendar, it doesn't take place on the same date on our calendar every year, but varies.

So there's that.

Additionally, when it does come to the various cults devoted to certain gods in the ancient Roman Empire, there's simply no evidence that any of them recognized December 25th as the birthday of this or that god.

In fact only the cult devoted to Sol Invictus regarded December 25th as the birthday of their god, but the cult of Sol Invictus didn't exist until the late 3rd century when it was instituted by Emperor Aurelian, and the earliest mention of the Dies Natalis Solis Invicti (Birth Day of the Unconquered Sun) is found on a local Roman calendar from the year 354 known as the Philocalian Calendar.

This is significant because Christians had been mentioning that Christ's birth was on December 25th since at least the time of Sextus Julius Africanus, and ancient Christian writer, who wrote his Universal History sometime around 221 AD; the Universal History no longer exists except in fragmentary form, but in these fragments Africanus attempts to give an account of the history of the world from Creation until the Advent of Christ, using the Jewish Anno Mundi (Year of the World) system which was common among early Christians prior to the Anno Domini (Year of our Lord) system introduced by Dionysius Exiguus in the 6th century and later adopted by most (but not all) of the Christian world over time.

The argument for December 25th as Christ's birth is basically a simple calculation early Christians made, based on the assumption that Jesus was conceived on the same day that He was crucified (it was generally accepted in the ancient Church that Jesus was crucified on a March 25th), and thus some said that Jesus had been born on March 25th, and others that He was conceived on March 25th. Those who thought He had been conceived on March 25th simply added nine months to arrive to December 25th. March 25th later was adopted as the Feast of the Annunciation, the celebration of when the angel visited the Virgin Mary to tell her that she would become the mother of our Lord.

In other words, Christians had been talking about a December 25th birth for Jesus long before the Roman pagans were talking about December 25th for Sol Invictus.

For a while there was no standardized date for the celebration of Christ's Nativity, which is why even today the Armenian Church continues to celebrate Christ's Nativity on January 6th. Most Christians adopted the standardized date of December 25th in the 5th century. So the only real question is if the adoption of this standardized date can be, at least in part, attributed by a desire to quash any remaining Pagan practices in the Roman Empire, or if it was simply the adoption of what was already most common among the churches--or perhaps a little bit of both. And that question is, perhaps, simply not possible to answer.

But what is possible to answer is that no, Christmas has literally nothing to do with anything pagan, and has literally everything to do with Jesus. It is the Feast of Christ's Holy Nativity. And all things pertaining to Jesus are worthy of honor, reverence, and our devotion.

-CryptoLutheran