So, Israel...

[Ana the Ist]

It came after the unification of the Hejaz and Nejd kingdoms and was named al-Mamlakah al-ʻArabīyah as-Suʻūdīyah, by Ibn Saud.

Well let's be a little more specific....he waged war against his fellow Arabs conquering the territory and solidifying his power. In short, he killed a lot of people for his kingdom. Oh yeah...and he also had British support, much like the Sharif, and when factions within his kingdom wanted to expel all infidels (meaning any non Arab, particularly the British) he decided not to test the British and instead put down many of his own people.

Now...if I were to wager a guess...you'd probably consider Saudi Arabia a legitimate state, no? Not some place "stolen which legitimately belongs to someone else"...correct?

If that is indeed the case...what exactly is it about the way the Israelis won their state you find so "wrong"? That they had British support? Is it because they're Jewish? Or perhaps that they were kind enough not to engage in wholesale genocide of the people of Palestine?

 

[Non sequitur]

Well let's be a little more specific....he waged war against his fellow Arabs conquering the territory and solidifying his power. In short, he killed a lot of people for his kingdom. Oh yeah...and he also had British support, much like the Sharif, and when factions within his kingdom wanted to expel all infidels (meaning any non Arab, particularly the British) he decided not to test the British and instead put down many of his own people.

Now...if I were to wager a guess...you'd probably consider Saudi Arabia a legitimate state, no? Not some place "stolen which legitimately belongs to someone else"...correct?

If that is indeed the case...what exactly is it about the way the Israelis won their state you find so "wrong"? That they had British support? Is it because they're Jewish? Or perhaps that they were kind enough not to engage in wholesale genocide of the people of Palestine?

Compared to his tactics of obtaining a state, the Israelis were given a state.

What does them being Jewish have to do with anything?

The fact that the British were making deals that contradicted themselves, with different parties, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. The Sharif kept his end of the agreement. The British did not.

If you swapped Arab with Israeli, then I would still have the same opinion.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Compared to his tactics of obtaining a state, the Israelis were given a state.

What does them being Jewish have to do with anything?

I'm sorry...I thought you were on here discussing the legitimacy of the state of Israel. I was simply pointing out that it's just as legitimate as really any other state created after the fall of the ottoman empire. So why choose Israel to discuss?

The fact that the British were making deals that contradicted themselves, with different parties, leaves a bad taste in one's mouth. The Sharif kept his end of the agreement. The British did not.

That depends on what you mean by "kept his end of the agreement"...did he create a state? Yeah...one that failed shortly after. Was it within the agreed bounds of those letters between the Sharif and the British? Not really...it's pretty well accepted that he tried to grab far more land than was agreed.

Let's say that the British had honored their agreement...what exactly would you expect from them once their state was eaten up by Saud and others?

"Hey people of a failed state that hate our guts because we're infidels...we know you got your butts kicked in by basically every other group down here...but hey, we're going to spend money and shed blood to honor a promise we made to a dead guy!"

I'm not saying Britain's hands are clean in all of this....but you don't need to be a political genius to figure out what was going on. It's an economic and strategically valuable piece of land. They were throwing support at everyone who made a play for it so they could get access....the same every major political donor does in the U.S. You can call it underhanded if you like...I'd just call it smart.

If you swapped Arab with Israeli, then I would still have the same opinion.

I see...so why are we discussing Israel specifically instead of any other state in the region?

 

[Non sequitur]

I'm sorry...I thought you were on here discussing the legitimacy of the state of Israel. I was simply pointing out that it's just as legitimate as really any other state created after the fall of the ottoman empire. So why choose Israel to discuss?

"Legitimacy" happens to fall under trying to understand the issues that are occurring there. Like I previously said, I don't know the full history.

That depends on what you mean by "kept his end of the agreement"...did he create a state? Yeah...one that failed shortly after. Was it within the agreed bounds of those letters between the Sharif and the British? Not really...it's pretty well accepted that he tried to grab far more land than was agreed.

Well, you said he didn't.

Following the timeline, it appears that the British "screwed over" the Arabs, with what they said they'd do. They did not "recognize and support the independence of the Arabs in all the region" after the help they received.

Let's say that the British had honored their agreement...what exactly would you expect from them once their state was eaten up by Saud and others?

"Hey people of a failed state that hate our guts because we're infidels...we know you got your butts kicked in by basically every other group down here...but hey, we're going to spend money and shed blood to honor a promise we made to a dead guy!"

I'm not saying Britain's hands are clean in all of this....but you don't need to be a political genius to figure out what was going on. It's an economic and strategically valuable piece of land. They were throwing support at everyone who made a play for it so they could get access....the same every major political donor does in the U.S. You can call it underhanded if you like...I'd just call it smart.

I see...so why are we discussing Israel specifically instead of any other state in the region?

From what I've seen, very few people discuss a pro vs con of the situation. Or expand on it, aside from very pro-Israel.

Prior to anyone on CF making any arguments "for" evolution, it would have been a very one-sided conversation.

I just thought it would be best to be fully informed of a conflict that is very heated.