So is it generally Methodist leaders' belief to call what's happening in Gaza, Genocide?

[hopeforhappiness]

A service focused this morning on the plight of the Palestinians. A Palestinian Methodist leader on video used the words genocide referring to the current action by the Israelis. This was just accepted by the service leader. Indeed, she only referred to October 7th once as a burning down of homes and implying that this was contiguous to what is happening in Gaza. The two huge and relevant differences are that Oct 7th directly caused the Israeli response and that Hamas's actions were sadistically carried out.
The dangerous use of the word genocide ignores also that the IDF are seeking out Hamas, NOT seeking to destroy the Palestinian people.
If pastors are going to 'DO' the current Palestine tragedy then there needs to be at least some political nuance and certainly some theology.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

A service focused this morning on the plight of the Palestinians. A Palestinian Methodist leader on video used the words genocide referring to the current action by the Israelis. This was just accepted by the service leader. Indeed, she only referred to October 7th once as a burning down of homes and implying that this was contiguous to what is happening in Gaza. The two huge and relevant differences are that Oct 7th directly caused the Israeli response and that Hamas's actions were sadistically carried out.
The dangerous use of the word genocide ignores also that the IDF are seeking out Hamas, NOT seeking to destroy the Palestinian people.
If pastors are going to 'DO' the current Palestine tragedy then there needs to be at least some political nuance and certainly some theology.

Well the numbers are a bit alarming. Out of 17,000 deaths 8000 are children. That is probably the main concern. I'll keep the number of women who have died out of that figure for now. I am thinking it's one thing fighting a war among soldiers but it's a whole other thing fighting a war among civilians. IMHO.
Blessings

 

[tampasteve]

I don't think there is a Methodist consensus on the actions of either side being called "genocide". That said, if my pastor made similar statements I would leave the service. I know my pastor is pro-Israel, so it would not be an issue.

 

[Sors]

There isn't a Methodist consensuses anything other than disagreeing with John Calvin. You can't take anything said in one church and apply it to another.

 

[FrankDougans]

The whole Gaza situation that (Hamas/Gaza started) is so absurd. It would end immediately if Hamas/Gaza surrendered. If they stopped firing rockets into Israel.

Is Israel supposed to just let them keep on firing or neutralize that firing location? Few other countries would warn them they were returning fire! A rocket launched would be immediately be responded to by corresponding and devastating return fire.

As for Children dying that's THEIR fault for not moving their children out of that area. They were warned repeatedly to leave certain areas. Why didn't they move? Well of course they are supporting the people underground in that area. Obviously. There's no other reason for them to stay. They CHOSE not to move their own children.

Plus Gaza has one of the highest concentrations of children on the planet.

A lot of westerners have no clue of the realities in this conflict. The anti-Israeli sentiment is a very telling indicator of the evil in the world. It truly is a barometer of a country's true self. Satan is working hard to get people aligned against Israel.

 

[tampasteve]

The whole Gaza situation that (Hamas/Gaza started) is so absurd. It would end immediately if Hamas/Gaza surrendered. If they stopped firing rockets into Israel.

Is Israel supposed to just let them keep on firing or neutralize that firing location? Few other countries would warn them they were returning fire! A rocket launched would be immediately be responded to by corresponding and devastating return fire.

As for Children dying that's THEIR fault for not moving their children out of that area. They were warned repeatedly to leave certain areas. Why didn't they move? Well of course they are supporting the people underground in that area. Obviously. There's no other reason for them to stay. They CHOSE not to move their own children.

Plus Gaza has one of the highest concentrations of children on the planet.

A lot of westerners have no clue of the realities in this conflict. The anti-Israeli sentiment is a very telling indicator of the evil in the world. It truly is a barometer of a country's true self. Satan is working hard to get people aligned against Israel.

I agree 100%

 

[AbbaLove]

I agree 100%

It's figured that at least 70% of Gaza Palestinian residents (including women) are Pro Hamas. Bibi may figure +90% of residents. Thus his justification for using even 2000 lb bombs. Bombs that were previously used only on the enemy (men) during a time of war.

Isn't that the main reason (2000lb bombs) why even some Christians are opposed to Bibi's right wing response ?
Were any Gaza woman terrorists or children actively involved in the killing of Israeli citizens on October 7th ?

West Bank Palestinians supposedly support Hamas decision to continue on-going war with Israel ...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/21/middleeast/palestinians-back-hamas-survey-intl-cmd/index.html#:~:text=Hamas%2C%20unsurprisingly%20perhaps%2C%20finds%20growing,September%202023%20and%20December%202023.

Bibi believes it will take "months" to do away with Hamas militants in Gaza. Meanwhile the world is seemingly more sympathetic with Palestinians becoming more anti-Israel??

 

[tampasteve]

Isn't that the main reason (2000lb bombs) why even some Christians are opposed to Bibi's right wing response ?

I don't think most people, including Christians, that are against the response from Israel are really informed on the weapons being used or the details on why Israel must do what it is doing. Most have a unrealistic view of urban warfare and perception of what most of the Palestinian Arabs believe and want.

Were any Gaza woman terrorists or children actively involved in the killing of Israeli citizens on October 7th ?

Yes to the women, I don't know about kids being involved in the killings, but they certainly are involved in the terrorist culture of Hamas in particular and Palestine at large. There is evidence of kids beating and spitting on the hostages, along with plenty of brainwashing videos from Hamas schools.

 

[AbbaLove]

I don't think most people, including Christians, that are against the response from Israel are really informed on the weapons being used or the details on why Israel must do what it is doing. Most have a unrealistic view of urban warfare and perception of what most of the Palestinian Arabs believe and want.

You come across as most Christians/Messianics look the other way when it comes to Israel's use of American made 2000lb bombs as justified for urban Gaza warfare ("why Israel must do what it is doing") even if it results in the collateral deaths of Palestinian women and children that are non-combatants.

Analysis ... Israel Dropped 2,000-pound bombs During Gaza Urban Warare​

The US dropped a 2,000-pound only once during its fight against ISIS – war on a militant terrorist group in the Middle East.
It fell on the so-called caliphate’s self-declared capital of Raqqa in Syria.​

Palestinians conduct a search and rescue operation in Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza City, on November 1

https://www.cnn.com/gaza-israel-big-bombs/index.html

​

 

[tampasteve]

You come across as most Christians/Messianics look the other way when it comes to Israel's use of American made 2000lb bombs as justified for urban Gaza warfare ("why Israel must do what it is doing") even if it results in the collateral deaths of Palestinian women and children that are non-combatants.

I assure you that I am not "looking the other way", I am looking right at it. There are no non-combatants IMO.

Just as a heads up, this is the Methodist forum, so debate is really not allowed

 

[AbbaLove]

I assure you that I am not "looking the other way", I am looking right at it. There are no non-combatants IMO.

Just as a heads up, this is the Methodist forum, so debate is really not allowed

It's been many years since i was confirmed by a United Methodist pastor. We both now consider ourselves to be Messanics (at least you use to besides being Lutheran). Maybe you never considered yourself to once be a Methodist.

I wasn't debating, but it sounds like you are when you just now imply that all Palestinians living in Gaza are potentially terrorist combatants (even girls and infants?). Most Christians would probably tend to agree so as to somehow justify the collateral deaths of old men, women, boys, girls, infants using 2000lb bombs in urban warfare.

Remember (you're too young) the refrain ... "The only good Indian was a dead Indian"? However historians are trying to walk back the once common adage as not attributed to either Sheridan or Teddy Roosevelt ...

Comanche Chief Tosahwi reputedly tells Sheridan in 1869, “Tosahwi, good Indian," to which Sheridan supposedly replies,​

“The only good Indians I ever saw were dead" (Brown, 1970).​

​

“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are,” Roosevelt said​

during a January 1886 speech in New York. “And I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth.”​

Now if someone finds out their ancestry also includes American Indian they are not ashamed .(that's a real possibility with me). My great grandfather was a whiteman on friendly terms with the Sioux Indians, even during the Sioux uprising. He let them use his musket to hunt deer on the Wsconsin side of the Mississippi R to feed their family in Red Wing or Wabasha, MN. They were known as the "Friendlies". The braves always returned it with a "high polish". It was a whiteman who stole it from the shed. My 2nd great grandfather's few prized possessions when he died included a tomahawk. His first name "Converse" suggests that he had been converted/baptized as a Christian. His wife was of Irish ancestry as was his son's wife (my great grandmother - Hannah). My 3rd great grandfathers (paternal/maternal) were of French and Swedish ancestry.