So I'm reading this book...

[SincereBeliever]

It's called 'Simply Christian' by Tom Wright. Maybe some of you have read it (it's quite good, IMO).
Anyway, on page 116 he says

"I freely grant that there may be conditions under which, because of wounds in the personality...people may genuinely believe in the gospel of Jesus, be striving to live by the Spirit, and yet have no sense of God's intimate presence."

No that sounds very much like me (in fact it sounds exactly like me). And I felt quite excited when I read that because it's not the sort of thing I've ever really heard before.
On page 117 he says

"...it is precisely when we are suffering that we can most confidently expect the Spirit to be with us."

I guess he is talking about Christians only in this second quotation. I am not a Christian. At least, I don't think I am. So of course the Spirit isn't with me, at least not in any way that I can recognize.

This brings me to some points I'd like to make.
1) I can accept that, historically, Jesus existed.
2) Without being a historian/theologian or scholar I can, I think, understand the arguments about the historical fact of resurrection. And from that understanding comes acceptance, or, if you prefer, belief.
However, for me it is a rather cold belief at present. For example, I believe in gravity. I know it is there and I see it's effect (even though I don't quite understand exactly how it all works, but neither do I understand exactly how my computer works. And so my 'belief' in Jesus is a bit like that.
I think that the kind of heartfelt belief that I think I ought to have is a long way off for me. I am very cynical, sometimes unpleasant, often angry (actually, my doctor once said I had a 'personality disorder', so I guess I fall in the category of 'mental health problems'). In other words, I do not seem to be spirit-filled at all.
And here I get to the real question in this unintentional essay. How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?
I have asked God for help with this and it says

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

The problem is that I do not think I have received. In which case either
a) I do not believe, or
b) God Jesus doesn't keep his side of the deal.

Which leads me back to my question above
How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?

Addition
I'd just like to add the following.
I was quite far on my journey, but Lisa0315's lucid reply gave me the final little push I needed.
So about 12 hours after posting this message I prayed a long prayer to God and gave my life to Christ.
I am saved.

 

[Abiel]

You potter into a number of local churches, make some contacts, spend a bit of time getting to know them. Experience different types of worship- traditional, modern, whatever. FInd a place you can feel comfortable to continue your explorations- it might not be the first you come across, but it's out there I promise. Warmth comes through relationship.

 

[Digit]

It's called 'Simply Christian' by Tom Wright. Maybe some of you have read it (it's quite good, IMO).
Anyway, on page 116 he says

"I freely grant that there may be conditions under which, because of wounds in the personality...people may genuinely believe in the gospel of Jesus, be striving to live by the Spirit, and yet have no sense of God's intimate presence."

No that sounds very much like me (in fact it sounds exactly like me). And I felt quite excited when I read that because it's not the sort of thing I've ever really heard before.
On page 117 he says

"...it is precisely when we are suffering that we can most confidently expect the Spirit to be with us."

I guess he is talking about Christians only in this second quotation. I am not a Christian. At least, I don't think I am. So of course the Spirit isn't with me, at least not in any way that I can recognize.

This brings me to some points I'd like to make.
1) I can accept that, historically, Jesus existed.
2) Without being a historian/theologian or scholar I can, I think, understand the arguments about the historical fact of resurrection. And from that understanding comes acceptance, or, if you prefer, belief.
However, for me it is a rather cold belief at present. For example, I believe in gravity. I know it is there and I see it's effect (even though I don't quite understand exactly how it all works, but neither do I understand exactly how my computer works. And so my 'belief' in Jesus is a bit like that.
I think that the kind of heartfelt belief that I think I ought to have is a long way off for me. I am very cynical, sometimes unpleasant, often angry (actually, my doctor once said I had a 'personality disorder', so I guess I fall in the category of 'mental health problems'). In other words, I do not seem to be spirit-filled at all.
And here I get to the real question in this unintentional essay. How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?
I have asked God for help with this and it says

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

The problem is that I do not think I have received. In which case either
a) I do not believe, or
b) God Jesus doesn't keep his side of the deal.

Which leads me back to my question above
How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?

Heya Sincere,

That's a pretty common question I think. In fact for quite some time I was a Christian yet didn't feel any love for God. At the time, I actually didn't care too much about it, as I was very interested in learning all I could learn about His acts, the reasoning behind absolute morals and how it all fits together to form a perfect picture of the world, how it should be. It was then, that I felt a genuine love for God and what He did for me, despite me being a willing sinner. It will most likely be different for us all, and I think the second quote from the book actually applies to everyone.

I can also testify that by taking action, you can often feel a dramatic change. For example, you say that you aren't, or don't know if you are a Christian yet. That was the same for me, and it was only when I started actively claiming I was, and changing my profiles on several sites (like Facebook and so forth) to state under Religion "Christianity" that I began to feel MORE Christian. Does that make sense? I think it does, to speak more of ACTS rather than WORDS.

Do Christian things, uphold Christian morals and so on, and I have no doubt in my mind that you will begin to feel a greater sense of God in your life.

Digit

 

[sadbuttrue]

It's called 'Simply Christian' by Tom Wright. Maybe some of you have read it (it's quite good, IMO).
Anyway, on page 116 he says

"I freely grant that there may be conditions under which, because of wounds in the personality...people may genuinely believe in the gospel of Jesus, be striving to live by the Spirit, and yet have no sense of God's intimate presence."

No that sounds very much like me (in fact it sounds exactly like me). And I felt quite excited when I read that because it's not the sort of thing I've ever really heard before.
On page 117 he says

"...it is precisely when we are suffering that we can most confidently expect the Spirit to be with us."

I guess he is talking about Christians only in this second quotation. I am not a Christian. At least, I don't think I am. So of course the Spirit isn't with me, at least not in any way that I can recognize.

This brings me to some points I'd like to make.
1) I can accept that, historically, Jesus existed.
2) Without being a historian/theologian or scholar I can, I think, understand the arguments about the historical fact of resurrection. And from that understanding comes acceptance, or, if you prefer, belief.
However, for me it is a rather cold belief at present. For example, I believe in gravity. I know it is there and I see it's effect (even though I don't quite understand exactly how it all works, but neither do I understand exactly how my computer works. And so my 'belief' in Jesus is a bit like that.
I think that the kind of heartfelt belief that I think I ought to have is a long way off for me. I am very cynical, sometimes unpleasant, often angry (actually, my doctor once said I had a 'personality disorder', so I guess I fall in the category of 'mental health problems'). In other words, I do not seem to be spirit-filled at all.
And here I get to the real question in this unintentional essay. How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?
I have asked God for help with this and it says

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

The problem is that I do not think I have received. In which case either
a) I do not believe, or
b) God Jesus doesn't keep his side of the deal.

Which leads me back to my question above
How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?

I think you should be a little careful about the whole 'historical Jesus' thing. Sure, it's an interesting thing for academics to get involved with and maybe it sells some books, but there's a real danger that you can reduce Jesus to nothing more than a historical figure. I'm not saying that's what you have done, but it is a potential problem.
Of course, once you examine the history and evidence you will, hopefully, realise just how magnificent the Bible is and how wonderful the truths are. It's scary stuff really, in a good way.
Anyway, it seems like you are well on your way to being a Christian. The next logical step is to discuss things with other Christians and go to a few churches if you can.
Also, don't worry about labels like 'personality disorder'. Think about it. What is an ordered personality anyway? It's not some textbook definition of convenience (probably by western materialists). The only 'ordered' personality ever to walk this Earth was Jesus, at least that's what I think.
I'll be praying for you

 

[ContentInHim]

It's not an intellectual exercise. You don't have to understand every little thing. But you must have a teachable spirit. THEN....

Cry out to God and desire that relationship more than anything else you've ever desired! That's what happened with me - from cold belief to desperate petitioner to born-again radically saved believer.

 

[InnocentOdion]

I guess he is talking about Christians only in this second quotation. I am not a Christian. At least, I don't think I am. So of course the Spirit isn't with me, at least not in any way that I can recognize.

Not at all, he is talking about everyone who is willing to take heed! He is there. You just can't recognise.

Have you ever heard of the poem "Footprints in the Sand"?

One night a man had a dream. He dreamed
he was walking along the beach with the LORD.​

Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene he noticed two sets of
footprints in the sand: one belonging
to him, and the other to the LORD.​

When the last scene of his life flashed before him,
he looked back at the footprints in the sand.​

He noticed that many times along the path of
his life there was only one set of footprints.​

He also noticed that it happened at the very
lowest and saddest times in his life.​

This really bothered him and he
questioned the LORD about it:​

"LORD, you said that once I decided to follow
you, you'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most
troublesome times in my life,
there is only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when
I needed you most you would leave me."

The LORD replied:​

"My son, my precious child,
I love you and I would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffering,
when you see only one set of footprints,
it was then that I carried you."​

​

written by Mary Stevenson​

website: http://www.llerrah.com/footprints.htm
​

Remember this poem. It cheers me up all the time.

How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?

Good question! All I can say is, pray with sincerity! Offer your heart to the Lord, tell Him your thoughts and feelings and your struggles. Pray to know Him, and read the Bible. You will soon start to notice He is there. I can testify to this.

 

[Lisa0315]

It's called 'Simply Christian' by Tom Wright. Maybe some of you have read it (it's quite good, IMO).
Anyway, on page 116 he says

"I freely grant that there may be conditions under which, because of wounds in the personality...people may genuinely believe in the gospel of Jesus, be striving to live by the Spirit, and yet have no sense of God's intimate presence."

No that sounds very much like me (in fact it sounds exactly like me). And I felt quite excited when I read that because it's not the sort of thing I've ever really heard before.
On page 117 he says

"...it is precisely when we are suffering that we can most confidently expect the Spirit to be with us."

I guess he is talking about Christians only in this second quotation. I am not a Christian. At least, I don't think I am. So of course the Spirit isn't with me, at least not in any way that I can recognize.

This brings me to some points I'd like to make.
1) I can accept that, historically, Jesus existed.
2) Without being a historian/theologian or scholar I can, I think, understand the arguments about the historical fact of resurrection. And from that understanding comes acceptance, or, if you prefer, belief.
However, for me it is a rather cold belief at present. For example, I believe in gravity. I know it is there and I see it's effect (even though I don't quite understand exactly how it all works, but neither do I understand exactly how my computer works. And so my 'belief' in Jesus is a bit like that.
I think that the kind of heartfelt belief that I think I ought to have is a long way off for me. I am very cynical, sometimes unpleasant, often angry (actually, my doctor once said I had a 'personality disorder', so I guess I fall in the category of 'mental health problems'). In other words, I do not seem to be spirit-filled at all.
And here I get to the real question in this unintentional essay. How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?
I have asked God for help with this and it says

Mat 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

The problem is that I do not think I have received. In which case either
a) I do not believe, or
b) God Jesus doesn't keep his side of the deal.

Which leads me back to my question above
How do I go from 'cold belief' to the kind of belief that Jesus refers to in the gospels?

You have asked the perfect question, and here is the perfect answer. Your cold belief is that you are able to believe in the existence of God, Jesus, even the resurrection. However, even demons believe and tremble. The difference between those who believe in the possibility of God and Jesus and those who TRULY believe are two little words. You have said that you believe "in". You must believe "on". One is in effect an acknowledgement of the truth. The other is putting your entire life into the hands of Almighty God. It is an agreement that He is right, and we are wrong. It is a purposing in one's heart that in all things we will be give our trust to God. Believing in is knowledge, and a good start. Believing On is trust, and that is salvation.

Lisa

 

[SincereBeliever]

You have asked the perfect question, and here is the perfect answer. Your cold belief is that you are able to believe in the existence of God, Jesus, even the resurrection. However, even demons believe and tremble. The difference between those who believe in the possibility of God and Jesus and those who TRULY believe are two little words. You have said that you believe "in". You must believe "on". One is in effect an acknowledgement of the truth. The other is putting your entire life into the hands of Almighty God. It is an agreement that He is right, and we are wrong. It is a purposing in one's heart that in all things we will be give our trust to God. Believing in is knowledge, and a good start. Believing On is trust, and that is salvation.

Lisa

I think that is an excellent answer.
You have hit the nail right on the head. It's so simple when you think about it.
'Believing On is trust, and that is salvation.'
Wow. I think you may have said more than you realise (with a little help from the Holy Spirit, no doubt).
'Thank you' doesn't seem enough, but it's all I can offer you.

 

[dvd_holc]

NT Wright is a great theologian. I meet Tom a few weeks ago at Roanoke VA. He is a very friendly guy. He was speaking on the resurrection and what it means to be a follower of Jesus (basically). I have not read Simply Christian yet, but I have heard many sermons and read a few books. Still, I know Simply Christian is a great book.

I am glad that you have come here to CF and ask this community. I will tell you...how I was lifted up from depression.

I always knew there was more to life, but I never had it. I grew bitter toward all the things that I knew where meant for good yet I had not receive comfort. I grew very anger about things I could not change and wanted to escape the things I caused. I grew to hate women, people, life, work...nearly everything...I was focused on things I did not have rather than things I had. I was cold to the world because I thought it was cold to me.

Really, I longed for a relationship with God and replaced my relationship with Him with things to fill that God shaped hole while demanding that they would satisfy me like Him. I opened myself up to repeat failure and pain until I was almost num. Well, God one day confronted me with a remembrance with many moments in my life that He stood in fellowship with me. I understood and felt that His love for me was not primarily rooted in things but through His shear act of beautiful creation. Likewise, my redemption was an even more incredible act of mercy and grace through living in the same pains I had. As I submitted to His will, I was confronted in every aspect of life that corrupted by cynicism and bitterness. What I soon found out, is that I through my submission I was learning to live in the harmony that God created us for. I found comfort I longed for stirring up from inside of me knowing that I was in fact loving other people in spite of circumstances, that when I failed God picks me back up, and I found lasting fellowships with people who come in the name of Jesus. The encouragement found in the bible and through other Christians opened my heart up to the things that were not just here in the temporary but went on giving. I found I had to continue to give out love because the love that is inside me through the Spirit was not meant to be kept for myself but to be shared.

Get to know other Christians. Open up to them. Dwell on the things that are virtuous and lasting and the God of peace with provide you the love and hope that is present in all circumstances.

 

[Lisa0315]

NT Wright is a great theologian. I meet Tom a few weeks ago at Roanoke VA. He is a very friendly guy. He was speaking on the resurrection and what it means to be a follower of Jesus (basically). I have not read Simply Christian yet, but I have heard many sermons and read a few books. Still, I know Simply Christian is a great book.

I am glad that you have come here to CF and ask this community. I will tell you...how I was lifted up from depression.

I always knew there was more to life, but I never had it. I grew bitter toward all the things that I knew where meant for good yet I had not receive comfort. I grew very anger about things I could not change and wanted to escape the things I caused. I grew to hate women, people, life, work...nearly everything...I was focused on things I did not have rather than things I had. I was cold to the world because I thought it was cold to me.

Really, I longed for a relationship with God and replaced my relationship with Him with things to fill that God shaped hole while demanding that they would satisfy me like Him. I opened myself up to repeat failure and pain until I was almost num. Well, God one day confronted me with a remembrance with many moments in my life that He stood in fellowship with me. I understood and felt that His love for me was not primarily rooted in things but through His shear act of beautiful creation. Likewise, my redemption was an even more incredible act of mercy and grace through living in the same pains I had. As I submitted to His will, I was confronted in every aspect of life that corrupted by cynicism and bitterness. What I soon found out, is that I through my submission I was learning to live in the harmony that God created us for. I found comfort I longed for stirring up from inside of me knowing that I was in fact loving other people in spite of circumstances, that when I failed God picks me back up, and I found lasting fellowships with people who come in the name of Jesus. The encouragement found in the bible and through other Christians opened my heart up to the things that were not just here in the temporary but went on giving. I found I had to continue to give out love because the love that is inside me through the Spirit was not meant to be kept for myself but to be shared.

Get to know other Christians. Open up to them. Dwell on the things that are virtuous and lasting and the God of peace with provide you the love and hope that is present in all circumstances.

Did you see his edit to the OP?

Lisa

 

[dvd_holc]

Did you see his edit to the OP?

Lisa

Nope but...hey lets move past being saved and now begin to learn to grow into the fullness of Jesus

 

[Lisa0315]

Nope but...hey lets move past being saved and now begin to learn to grow into the fullness of Jesus

He will. Lets just let God be God, okay? God will nurture him and train him for whatever purpose He has in mind for our new brother. Let us not hinder him...Let us just celebrate with him.

Lisa