So... God ALLOWS you to choose to be tortured forever?

[agape101]

sounds like a great gospel...


does anyone actually consider this reasonable? that on one hand God supposedly loves you, but on the other hand he allows those to be born that He knows will supposedly choose to be tortured in a place which he had created with the stipulations he had instated...?

Where do we stand when the pillar of our doctrine leaves no doubt that it is better to abort a fetus then give it a 50% chance of neverending torture?

my guess is that none of you really believe this garbage deep down.

or that what? God wants to see the it all play out? He wants to see that child grow up astray and end up being tortured forever? What is the purpose in that? what is the purpose in any torture- let alone a torture that dies not end???

who made this place of torture? and who decides who gets to go there? and why forever? sounds like a sinister plot to me...


What say you?

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

There's a whole topic on hell going on right now in the unorthodox section. In a nutshell, the tortured forever idea boils down to the word eternity and forever and ever. However, in Greek, the word used was aion, which means an undetermined period of time, not an unlimited period of time.

If God is going to literally punish people who reject Him, it'll be an undetermined period of time but limited depending on their sins and how they lived their lives. There are many different theories besides this one. As far as my beliefs on this go, I believe you either have eternal life in Christ or no eternal life. The lake of fire is said to be the second death. To me, this revelation that John had wasn't necessarily literal. The lake of fire could just be a physical representation of the total completeness of a person's end if they reject eternal life.

Honestly, its a rabbit hole of theories and beliefs. I don't think God is going to torture people forever. There would be nothing gained in it, and God takes no pleasure in destroying even sinners.

If it turns out God will torture people literally, but for an aion (for an undetermined but limited time), it still is hard to swallow but it makes more sense than neverending torture. I would assume that a person who lived a good life but did not accept Christ would have a merciful end.

http://www.studentoftheword.com/Forever.html

 

[mr73140]

agape101: I believe it! I don't think that it is garbage at all. I believe that God gives all persons a free will to choose to serve Him which will ultimately lead them to live in a literal heaven with Him; or they can choose to serve satan which will lead them to literally live in hell. He created beings, He loves beings. He never intended hell for beings; hell was created for satan and his imps. The Father never wanted robots that is why he allows you to choose...This day who will you serve? The whole idea is the complete separation from the Father...that will be eternal Hell.

 

[Lord Herdsetk]

agape101: I believe it! I don't think that it is garbage at all. I believe that God gives all persons a free will to choose to serve Him which will ultimately lead them to live in a literal heaven with Him; or they can choose to serve satan which will lead them to literally live in hell. He created beings, He loves beings. He never intended hell for beings; hell was created for satan and his imps. The Father never wanted robots that is why he allows you to choose...This day who will you serve? The whole idea is the complete separation from the Father...that will be eternal Hell.

Miss, this raises a lot of flags.

A simple question would be, "What good does this do God or the person He is sending to a state of eternal suffering in hell?"

 

[Sum1sGruj]

The depiction of Hell as commonly described is a sad assumption that caught on when the Romans used it for control over people.

The fact is that the contexts, when studied, hardly indicate a fiery hell at all. Hell is completely different. Not pleasant, but different.
Of course, it's a stubborn subject because people have revolved around the idea for so long that it just won't avail some who are fixed on the Roman's Hell.

 

[tyronem]

The depiction of Hell as commonly described is a sad assumption that caught on when the Romans used it for control over people.

The fact is that the contexts, when studied, hardly indicate a fiery hell at all. Hell is completely different. Not pleasant, but different.
Of course, it's a stubborn subject because people have revolved around the idea for so long that it just won't avail some who are fixed on the Roman's Hell.

I know a man who died and went to Hell. He said his experience was total blackness, when he asked where he was the response was "shutup you're in Hell'. While others have spoken of being tortured by demon's, and others have spoken of the fire in Hell that they have seen and experienced.

 

[Sum1sGruj]

I know a man who died and went to Hell. He said his experience was total blackness, when he asked where he was the response was "shutup you're in Hell'. While others have spoken of being tortured by demon's, and others have spoken of the fire in Hell that they have seen and experienced.

And you believe those people? I'm sure if the popular idea of Hell was about hopeless wandering through oblivion, people would say they experienced that instead.

 

[joey_downunder]

Does Jesus always tell the truth - YES or NO? Read the Final Judgement section: Passage: Matthew 25 (ESV Bible Online). Is that a parable like the other two stories above or is that literal - YES or NO? Is Jesus saying hell is eternal - YES or NO?

 

[tyronem]

And you believe those people? I'm sure if the popular idea of Hell was about hopeless wandering through oblivion, people would say they experienced that instead.

I think you are confusing someone having a vision and someone actually dying.

The man I know is a kiwi and his name is Ian McCormack, he was a member of our Church before he shifted overseas on missions.

Before he came to Christ he was killed by a Box Jellyfish, the worlds most deadliest nuerotoxin, as he was dying he gave his life to Christ and true to His word Christ saved him even though Ian called on him in the last minutes of Ian's life, Christ showed him where he should have gone (Hell), and where he would now go, however he begged Christ to send him back so he could spread the Gospel and he has done so since.

He was in the morgue as the mortician started the bleed out process when he awoke returned to his body. He had been pronounced dead by doctors as well as the coroner, there was no doubt he was as dead as a doorknob when he experienced Hell and then Heaven.

This was no human manifested dream it was as real as you and I.

 

[Blueforest]

There's some sects of Christianity that teach God actually creates some people just to thrown into to hell because he is "Just".

Yeah.

We call them Calvinists.

 

[agape101]

agape101: I believe it! I don't think that it is garbage at all. I believe that God gives all persons a free will to choose to serve Him which will ultimately lead them to live in a literal heaven with Him; or they can choose to serve satan which will lead them to literally live in hell. He created beings, He loves beings. He never intended hell for beings; hell was created for satan and his imps. The Father never wanted robots that is why he allows you to choose...This day who will you serve? The whole idea is the complete separation from the Father...that will be eternal Hell.

So why then does God bind and loose satan at his choosing "in order to decieve the nations."? and why does he snd lying and evil spirits all throughout the ot? Why does the spirit lead Jesus into the wilderness in order to be tempted by the devil.... if your assertion is true?

Moreover- why doesn't God just bind up Satan right now? is he playing a game with our eternal lives????

 

[papakapp]

There's some sects of Christianity that teach God actually creates some people just to thrown into to hell because he is "Just".

Yeah.

We call them Calvinists.

Then there are other sects of Christianity that think of God like a battered wife, always living in fear that He might offend somebody, so instead of risking offending anybody, He thinks its just safest to be a big mushy doormat full of love, and to let everybody do everything they want so as not to "scare them off"

 

[agape101]

I know a man who died and went to Hell. He said his experience was total blackness, when he asked where he was the response was "shutup you're in Hell'. While others have spoken of being tortured by demon's, and others have spoken of the fire in Hell that they have seen and experienced.

There was an old woman who lived in a shoe... oh wait, that heresay.

 

[agape101]

Does Jesus always tell the truth - YES or NO? Read the Final Judgement section: Passage: Matthew 25 (ESV Bible Online). Is that a parable like the other two stories above or is that literal - YES or NO? Is Jesus saying hell is eternal - YES or NO?

no. Jesus never uses the word "hell" or "eternal." Jesus lived about 1000 years before English was a language.

 

[agape101]

I think you are confusing someone having a vision and someone actually dying.

The man I know is a kiwi and his name is Ian McCormack, he was a member of our Church before he shifted overseas on missions.

Before he came to Christ he was killed by a Box Jellyfish, the worlds most deadliest nuerotoxin, as he was dying he gave his life to Christ and true to His word Christ saved him even though Ian called on him in the last minutes of Ian's life, Christ showed him where he should have gone (Hell), and where he would now go, however he begged Christ to send him back so he could spread the Gospel and he has done so since.

He was in the morgue as the mortician started the bleed out process when he awoke returned to his body. He had been pronounced dead by doctors as well as the coroner, there was no doubt he was as dead as a doorknob when he experienced Hell and then Heaven.

This was no human manifested dream it was as real as you and I.

As well as not believing your second hand story, it still doesn't hold up as evidence of anything.

 

[joey_downunder]

no. Jesus never uses the word "hell" or "eternal." Jesus lived about 1000 years before English was a language.

Using your logic the English language did not exist at the time of Jesus, therefore the word "heaven" didn't exist, therefore there is no heaven.

 

[BondiHarry]

sounds like a great gospel...


does anyone actually consider this reasonable? that on one hand God supposedly loves you, but on the other hand he allows those to be born that He knows will supposedly choose to be tortured in a place which he had created with the stipulations he had instated...?

Where do we stand when the pillar of our doctrine leaves no doubt that it is better to abort a fetus then give it a 50% chance of neverending torture?

my guess is that none of you really believe this garbage deep down.

or that what? God wants to see the it all play out? He wants to see that child grow up astray and end up being tortured forever? What is the purpose in that? what is the purpose in any torture- let alone a torture that dies not end???

who made this place of torture? and who decides who gets to go there? and why forever? sounds like a sinister plot to me...


What say you?

I'm curious, how do you come up with sinful men being tortured forever when God tells us the wages of sin is death and to fear the one who can destroy our body and soul in hell?

 

[Emmy]

Dear agape101. God gave us 10 Commandments, (loving advice) and Jesus gave us two Commandments, they say all what God`s 10 Commandments tell us. 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets. God wants our love, freely given and completely selfless, no conditions tagged on. God is Love and God wants loving children/sons and daughters. Jesus died that we might live, Jesus paid the prize which God`s Holy Law demanded, Jesus is our Saviour. God also gave us a the greatest gift, the gift of free choice: we can choose to return to God, where we came from, or go our own way. Either to God, who loves us and wants us back again, or eternity without God`s Love or Light. Jesus told us of a Place in Outer Darkness, without God`s Love or Light. God is Love, and torture does never come from God. There is the Law of Justice, even the world knows it, " what ye sow ye will reap," rewards for doing GOOD, and fitting consequences for all selfish and at times bad and evil things. God does never force us in any way, God told us what is Good, and He told us what is NOT Good. For followers of Christ, this Law helps us to become as God wants us to be, loving children of a loving God. We are on Earth to learn to become as God wants us to be: " Loving God with all our beings, and loving eachother as we love ourselves." God` s Law helps us to become worthy children of our Worthy Heavenly Father. I say this with love, agape. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[Touma]

Think of it like this: God is the judge. You had a choice to obey the law or break the laws in the town. You chose to break the law. Because of your choice to disobey, He will sentence you to jail. You did not "choose" to go to hell, as that takes away the authority of the judge. The judge alone can sentence you. You alone can make the choice to keep the law or break it.

In the same manner, you do not choose to go to Hell. God sovereignly sentences you there based on your choice of disobeying His will. You also have the choice to obey Him, and by which he has the authority to reward you with eternity in Paradise.

 

[miamited]

Hi herdsetk,

You asked: A simple question would be, "What good does this do God or the person He is sending to a state of eternal suffering in hell?"

Oh, it doesn't do the person any good. You'll get no argument from me about that, but what good does this do God?

Well, you might begin to find the answer by considering God's purpose. What was God's purpose in creating this realm?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted