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I really don't think it matters what the particular name of the day is whether it is Saturday or Sunday. Just chose one of them and keep it - as in don't change it every week to fit in with your plans. Shabbat is about acknowledging God I don't think he cares what day we call it in our calender. And yes while we are not under the law - as in having to do it - it is good to do it.
If you like I have a list of special shabbat readings and blessings that are tradtional to be preformed - they are messianic so they also inclue NT readings too. Shabbat is also about enjoying the pleasures that God has given us - like good food and family.
that's a good idea to study about hard things for yourself, then you won't be swayed by others.
I think at some point this weekend I am going to pull out my topical and do a thorough study on the Sabbath and legalism in Scripture.
I mean, is trying to keep the commandments/Law bad? That seems to be the answer I'm getting when I ask about such things... I know the Law is not my judge and I am saved by grace and not by works, but from faith comes works (like keeping the law) and it seems to me that preventing faith from bringing about works (not trying to keep the Law) is pretty... what's the word I'm looking for... counterintuitive?
So, my Sabbath question. Do we keep the Sabbath, do we not keep the Sabbath? Saturday is the Sabbath. The Lord's Day/Resurrection Day/Sunday/whatever-you-deem-it is when services are held at most churches around here. Thus, because of the nature of taking time to go to church as well as observing the Sabbath, that would leave Sunday afternoon and evening for work to be done.
My question may seem petty because of the root matter: I am in high school and I have a lot of homework most of the time. If I get a huge load of homework on a weekend and I observe the Sabbath and go to church on Sunday morning, that only leaves Sunday afternoon and evening for my homework to be done. I mean, I'm willing to make the sacrifice if that's how it is; I suppose I can just try to get more done during the week. But is that how it is? Seems to be the question of the age.
I'm so confused...
God bless you,
Lissa
Judaism, as in the faith, has different ways of keeping shabbat not necessarily Jews as a race or nation. I'm a Jew and follow similar shabbat to this:he Jews observe it a differently (I do not agree with turning off elevators as a form of sabbathkeeping).
It's in Romans 14:5. One considers one day MORE SACRED than another...
What does one person considers one day more sacred than another mean?
p.s. Maybe you could study ancient calendars. Why does Passover change every year? Because a lunar calendar can add up to 19-23 days a year compared to a solar calendar. This is also why those who go by a solar calendar have a leap year to compensate.
But again, who are you to judge God's servant who regards one day more sacred than another?
p.s. Maybe you could study ancient calendars. Why does Passover change every year? Because a lunar calendar can add up to 19-23 days a year compared to a solar calendar. This is also why those who go by a solar calendar have a leap year to compensate.
I see that you are SDA and I am not surprised that you have this view but it is very legalistic. It follows more the letter of the law rather then the spirit of it. The spirit of the law is the point - that we as humans put aside a day to worship God. I wonder with so much time passed from the time God intituted shabbat, say almost 5000 years ago, that you could be so sure that the day you think is the shabbat is really the shabbt? I do not believe that the actual name of the calender day is relevant, what is relevant is that a day be put aside. Be it Saturday or Sunday or if people work weekends one of the days they have off would be fine. It's not a have to, it's a should do. God is not going to strike people down dead because they decided to devote themselves to him on a Sunday or Monday rather then a Saturday.
The 10 commandments are the only thing that was written with the finger of God in stones.
which languges are they? I know in English it isn't:Saturday in many laungues came from the hebrew word 'shabbat'.
tulc(always interested in word origins!)Saturday is the seventh (sixth in some countries) day of the week, between Friday and Sunday. It is the only day of the week to retain its Roman origin in English, named after the Roman god of time Saturn, calling it dies Saturni, "Saturn's Day". Many of the other days of the week adopted names of Saxon gods in Northern Europe, in Anglo-Saxon. There also exists a possibility that the modern English form derives from Anglo-Saxon "Saeter daegv", as Saeter "Saturn" was regarded as a correlary of Loki by Northern Germanic peoples.
From this verse, it's plain that God has been at work since the beginning, and that He has not stopped yet. (ie "always at His work"). So why the fuss about the Sabbath? Even Jesus worked during the "sabbath".John 5:17"'Jesus said to them, "My Father is always at His work to this very day, and I, too, am working."18For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God. 19Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
Then, at least in regards to this, Calvin was a raving heretic. We are made righteous by faith, and apparently he's trying to drag works into it again. But I choose to believe I've understood him wrong."We must not imagine that the coming of Christ has freed us from the authority of the law; for it is the eternal rule of a devout and holy life, and must therefore be as unchangeable as the justice of God, which it embraced, is constant and uniform." John Calvin, Commentary on a Harmony of the Gospels, Volume 1, Page 277.
Ah, but that assumes that some laws in the OT are changed, while some are kept. The way I understand Paul, the entire law was done away with.If Paul had here been eliminating the Sabbath we could expect him to give a much more detailed refutation, as he did with circumcision.
Yes, they can, and in fact Paul speaks of a necessary "change of law", a new covenant and so forth. Old out, new inHowever God never changes: "I change not, Mal 3:6". "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, forever, Heb 13:8". God is eternal and His eternal laws can not be changed.
...until it has all been fulfilled. The law and prophets have been fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law as well as the prophesies. It was all a shadow, it all pointed forward to him.Didn't Jesus say in Matt 5:18 til heaven and earth pass away, not even a tittle or a jot of the law shall pass away? As far as I know, heaven and earth have not passed away. So how can one of his commandments passed away?
Let's agree for the sake of argument that the law was given for the same purpose as traffic laws - the laws aren't there just for you to follow blindly. They're there because there are people who, unlike you, drive like madmen, and it's there to either scare them or to justify punishing them afterwards. It's not there for people who know how to drive sanely.Can you chose what speed you want to drive on the road? Not if you want to get a ticket. You have to obey the speed limit.
We are under the authority of God. We have to submit to His authority and His rules. The 10 commandments are the only thing that was written with the finger of God in stones. That in itself presents eternal.
Ah, but that assumes that some laws in the OT are changed, while some are kept. The way I understand Paul, the entire law was done away with.
...until it has all been fulfilled. The law and prophets have been fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law as well as the prophesies. It was all a shadow, it all pointed forward to him.
Let's agree for the sake of argument that the law was given for the same purpose as traffic laws - the laws aren't there just for you to follow blindly. They're there because there are people who, unlike you, drive like madmen, and it's there to either scare them or to justify punishing them afterwards. It's not there for people who know how to drive sanely.
So if we're comparing the mosaic law with traffic law, we're saying that we're miserable helpless sinners who will actually steal and murder and whatnot, unless we're FORCED not to. And to make matters worse, you have never even met one single person who has actually lived up to those demands. It doesn't bring joy or peace to anyone. It can't. It can only bring death and shame and guilt and a false self-righteousness.
The bible even seems to suggest that the law was given with the purpose of making sin exceedingly sinful. So it's nothing but a tragedy that christians are still crawling back to it, suffocating themselves and other with commandments.
Grace was around before the law, but I see your point. But it doesn't make sense to go back and forth between law and grace - should I sin so that grace may abound? God forbid etc.Now if as you say, the entire law was done away with then of what need do we have of grace? My understanding is that grace cannot exist without the law. Without the law we can't see a need for grace.
I don't know how much the OT says about the second coming. Jesus certainly talked about it himself though. And the law WAS fulfilled. The Messiah HAS come. The price has been paid. There's nothing left for us to do but accept it in faith.Umm.... Did I miss something? I didn't realise Jesus had returned a second time.
Oh, but it has!I also didn't realise that sin had been destroyed.
The law is for the wicked and the ungodly, just as traffic laws are for people who can't control themselves. So in that respect they're similar, yes. But we aren't ungodly and wicked, are we?Who says God's laws are there for you to follow blindly? I think you'll find the same reason we have traffic laws is a similar reason why God has his laws there for us to follow.
You could say that, but the law says "DO THIS. Or else." The law demands works and has nothing to do with faith.Exactly! However God doesn't force us to do anything.
Mercy for sins is part of the package yes, but only the first part. We're dead with him, and therein lies forgiveness, but then we're also raised up with him, and that's where most believers get stuck - they don't realize that they both die AND live - by GRACE. First we die to the law on the cross with him, and then when we're resurrected, made new, born again, we go right back to the law, having our fleshly desires aroused by it, sinning, feeling bad and going back to the cross again. Instead of LIVING with Christ.But its not all bad news, God knew that we wouldn't be able to live up to His standard before Adam and Eve sinned and so had a plan up his sleeve. Because of His love he has given us a second chance so that those who constantly stand at the foot of the cross, when they fall, the blood of Jesus covers them and they will be redeemed.
Yes! And the law does the EXACT opposite of this.It is the blood of Jesus that brings back joy and peace into our lives, giving us the ability to stand confidently before God at all times.
The commandment certainly gives power to sin. Adam and Eve couldn't sin until they were told not to. They weren't even supposed to know about right and wrong. But we still keep eating from that tree, don't we?The law wasn't given to make sin exceedingly sinful, all it does is show us sin is exceedingly sinful because without it we would be completely deceived by sin not realising its true motives.
Yes, the commandments are good, no arguing there. There's nothing wrong with not stealing. But it's also the power of sin. It allows sin to bind us, and then it judges us. And the law ALWAYS takes the focus FROM Jesus. The law points to you, to sin, to failure, to morality, it judges, it makes you judge others, it makes people go into all kinds of efforts to avoid sin. But it never gives us the solution, which is grace.Read Psalm 119 and 1 John. Not only does Paul state that the law is righteous, holy, good and spiritual (Rom 7:12, 14) but also that he delights in God's law (Rom 7:22).
which languges are they? I know in English it isn't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturday
tulc(always interested in word origins!)
What Jesus said was very clear. The jews made it a burden to keep the sabbath holy.Hi All,
From this verse, it's plain that God has been at work since the beginning, and that He has not stopped yet. (ie "always at His work"). So why the fuss about the Sabbath? Even Jesus worked during the "sabbath".
The only conclusion I can draw from this is that what God meant by the Sabbath, is not what we believe it to be.
We do not offer burnt sacrifices anymore. We do not practice the Seventh year renouncing of debts owed to us. We do not practice corban. Why do some of you hold that not to practice the Sabbath( ie Friday eve to Saturday eve) will prevent you from going to Heaven?
Heaven is not gained by following the Law. If it could be gained this way, then there would be no point for Jesus to die. Jesus died to pay the price for my sins. He did not have any sins of His own. He gave His life for me, so that I mught have His life and all that goes with it. He has given me life, and also His righteous that surpasses "the righteousness of the Scribes and the Pharisees."
If you follow the Sabbath, good for you !!! May God bless you for it. However, to condemn those who do not follow the Sabbath as you do, is akin to casting the first stone. If you have no sin, then do so. I know if I had to cast stones, it would be at myself.
If we believe in Jesus, and His ressurection, we will "not perish but have everlasting life". It will not come by following the "Sabbath".
God does not write His Laws anymore in Stone, but on "tablets of human hearts". We must stop focusing on the Law, but on Christ. He came to fulfill the Law, so that I could live. I cannot fulfill the Law.
God Bless You All,
Isaia
Then, at least in regards to this, Calvin was a raving heretic. We are made righteous by faith, and apparently he's trying to drag works into it again. But I choose to believe I've understood him wrong.
Christ HAS freed us from the authority of the law. That was the whole point.
That law Paul was speaking about is the law of Moses: the rituals, ceremonies in which they pointed to Jesus Christ's sacrifice.Ah, but that assumes that some laws in the OT are changed, while some are kept. The way I understand Paul, the entire law was done away with.
Yes, they can, and in fact Paul speaks of a necessary "change of law", a new covenant and so forth. Old out, new in
Which one of the 10 commandment pointed to Jesus's sacrificial atonement? None....until it has all been fulfilled. The law and prophets have been fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled the law as well as the prophesies. It was all a shadow, it all pointed forward to him.
Let's agree for the sake of argument that the law was given for the same purpose as traffic laws - the laws aren't there just for you to follow blindly. They're there because there are people who, unlike you, drive like madmen, and it's there to either scare them or to justify punishing them afterwards. It's not there for people who know how to drive sanely.
So if we're comparing the mosaic law with traffic law, we're saying that we're miserable helpless sinners who will actually steal and murder and whatnot, unless we're FORCED not to. And to make matters worse, you have never even met one single person who has actually lived up to those demands. It doesn't bring joy or peace to anyone. It can't. It can only bring death and shame and guilt and a false self-righteousness.
The bible even seems to suggest that the law was given with the purpose of making sin exceedingly sinful. So it's nothing but a tragedy that christians are still crawling back to it, suffocating themselves and other with commandments.
He didn't say we could stop offering lambs and goats either. In fact, he said not one iota of the law should pass until it was all fulfilled. It's my belief that it has been fulfilled. If you believe it hasn't, you're stuck with the ENTIRE law.Jesus was addressing the legalistic way of the jews' understanding of the law. He said it's ok to do good on sabbath. However, no where did Jesus say we don't need to keep the sabbath.
But your life isn't supposed to be a ping-pong play between the Jesus and the law. The law doesn't lead you to Christ. On the contrary, in fact.The law is the knowledge of sin. Without law, there is no sin. James wrote the law is a mirror. It points out our shortcomings and our need for Jesus.
That's why the bible says the laws will be written in our hearts after we are born again because we will know what's wrong to do.
Apparently he did - only Jesus ever kept the lawIf you love your spouse, you do what she/he asks. God would not have asked us to do something wrong or impossible to do, whould He?
Sure, but we disagree on what God actually asks us to do.If you love your spouse, you do what she/he asks.
No. I mean, why don't you kill people? Because of the law?If you say we don't need to keep the law, then is it ok to go out and kill and steal.
I'm not a scholar, but I've never seen the scriptures divide the mosaic law into several parts.That law Paul was speaking about is the law of Moses: the rituals, ceremonies in which they pointed to Jesus Christ's sacrifice.
So what is the law good for now? To bless us if we keep it? Well, we don't keep it, do we? So, no condemnation from the law, and no blessing either. So I still don't see what I'm supposed to do with it, really.You see the law is still binding. Jesus freed us from the condemnation of the law.
But was it only those that pointed to Jesus' atonement that were discarded?Which one of the 10 commandment pointed to Jesus's sacrificial atonement? None.
Whoa, hold your horses!You and I can't do anything about the sin we had committed in the past. But from now on, we have a choice.
Well, the mosaic law certainly includes the ten commandments. You could say the ten commandments are the very backbone of the mosaic law. So then we'd be left with only one commandment - to keep the sabbath. Which doesn't make sense IMO.The bible was talking about the Mosaic law. Please read Galatians 3. Notice it says the law was given 430 years after God made a promise to Abraham. We know the sabbath commandment was given after creation. So this law Paul was talking about was the mosaic law that had met its purpose.
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