So... Chik-fil-a... yeah.

[Puptart]

Who else is sick of hearing about the Chik-fil-a nonsense?

I know I am, so I'm doing the only logical thing I can think of... talking about it some more.

Seriously, what.. the... heck. Just what the heck. The polarizing effect this situation is having on Christians is absolutely ridiculous on some levels.

My position is fairly simple.. I support Chik-Fil-A and Co.'s right to free speech. I also support the free speech of the people opposing them (of which I consider myself a member).

What I don't support:
- Inequality between human beings.
- Hating anyone.
- Attacking anyone.

There's this little thing called "Positive protest". It's where you protest something you don't agree with by affirming what you do agree with. There is no reason for people on either side to be out-right attacking each other, calling for the elimination of the other side entirely, or resorting to outright childish hate. What would Jesus do? I guarantee "hate your neighbor" would not have made the list.

Look, everyone has the right to speak out and everyone has the right to speak out against. Everyone has the right to protest, and everyone has the right to boycott. Anti-gay Christians are notorious for their impromptu boycotts of products, events, and people, just as much as people on the other side of the issue are up for boycotting Chik-fil-A.

However..

*shifty eyes*

I do have an issue.

I don't think city officials have a right to deny a corporation the right to set up shop just because of some religious beliefs, as long as they meet the requirements of equal hiring and non-discrimination. So it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when I see city mayors or other officials in governmental bodies getting involved in this absurdity and saying "We don't want you around." FYI: That's not exactly tolerance either, I gotta say.

Let them set up shop. Let them come. And let the opposition boycott. Or at least before you make any determinations on who should and should not be allowed to put a business within the city or state limits, consider asking the taxpayers what they want to see happen. Fun fact: Many individuals on the opposite side may welcome the business for the opportunity of being able to protest. Even if you don't like someone or something, doesn't mean you want to ban it entirely from your state.

*breathes in*

I think I'm done. I really just had to get that out.

So.. anyone else here in the libby area have any thoughts on the situation?

Keep in mind that the rules of CF state we are allowed to discuss homosexuality here without promotion.. so for the people who are protesting Chik-fil-A's statements, I'd just stick to calling this a matter of "equality" and leave it at that as much as possible.

I welcome the thread being shut down if it should in some way be in violation of the rules, but I think we're capable of operating within them.

 

[Jase]

I do not eat at Chick Fil A, nor do most of my Co-workers as I work in a very LGBT supportive industry.

I think what frustrates me the most is that in the 21st Century, we have people using God's name to justify the systematic discrimination and denial of equality to an entire subset of humanity, based exclusively on 5 vague verses, in the wrong language, and a foreign context written some 2-4000 years ago in a book.

The whole issue at large just makes me disgusted with Christianity to be honest.

 

[baryogenesis]

It is an unfortunate state of affairs. I pray for everyone involved. There is a schism in the Body of Christ, and there is much to be done to get our house in order. To put this on display for the world in such a way is to present an unwholesome witness for Christ and the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. To drag our Lord's name into the worldly politics of divisiveness is appalling and vain. We will be judged by the measure we judge others. May God have mercy on us.

 

[HollyVB]

I would retype my opinion, but instead i'll put a link.

adiscipleinalandofpharisees.blogspot.com

 

[SuziTiri]

I know ,,,i will eat anywhere that has good wholesome food im in Canada so we don't have Chik-Fil-A here but i wouldn't stop eating there ,,,,i equate that for straight people not coming to my store because we support equal marriage. the whole thing is absurd.
and I agree with you Puptart....I use positive protest all the time ,,,the more i am attacked the more i come back with love...sort of shocks them,,,they expect an attack and when they don't get one ,,,they go all mute,,,,quite interesting

 

[Puptart]

It is an unfortunate state of affairs. I pray for everyone involved. There is a schism in the Body of Christ, and there is much to be done to get our house in order. To put this on display for the world in such a way is to present an unwholesome witness for Christ and the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. To drag our Lord's name into the worldly politics of divisiveness is appalling and vain. We will be judged by the measure we judge others. May God have mercy on us.

Great words

 

[Dreamer8]

Is this where chic flick didn't like gays so gays decided to go there and make out?
How did that end up?
Personally i think it's kinda funny lol

 

[Dreamer8]

It's kinda sad really, we have enough pastors and ministers shoving morals down our throat, now the corporations are getting involved.
Religion and politics ruin everything. People would get a long so much better if those two topics were left out.

But few footnotes
- I like freedom of speech, but I think it's overly abused and may be better to not have it
- love should be a human emotion, not a political agenda
- what the heck is up with the Bella vampire girl?

 

[Wren]

I think mayors have the right to block businesses that they feel are wrong for their communities, as some have done to Walmart. However, I would be more supportive of the mayors' decision if they were doing it because fast food is terrible (hello chicken with hormones and antibiotics, in addition to most of it probably being fried and otherwise unhealthy) and not because of the business owners being against gay marriage.

 

[Amber Bird]

It is an unfortunate state of affairs. I pray for everyone involved. There is a schism in the Body of Christ, and there is much to be done to get our house in order. To put this on display for the world in such a way is to present an unwholesome witness for Christ and the Holy Spirit dwelling within us. To drag our Lord's name into the worldly politics of divisiveness is appalling and vain. We will be judged by the measure we judge others. May God have mercy on us.

Beautifully said. Tragically, something I don't think Mr.Cathy nor his Christian followers have ever considered.

 

[rayodeluz]

An Open Letter to Chick-Fil-A President Dan Cathy

by Bert Montgomery Saturday, July 21st, 2012

NOTE: This was written a day prior Chic-Fil-A made the public statement that their tradition “is to treat every person with honor, dignity and respect – regardless of their belief, race, creed, sexual orientation or gender.” What a wonderful statement! However, I still believe this letter is appropriate and the invitation given at the end remains open…


Dear Mr. Cathy,

I love Chick-Fil-A. I truly do. And, I have great respect for your values and your decision to be closed on Sundays and Christian holidays.

I also love my gay friends. I really do. And, I am convinced that loving Chick-Fil-A and loving my gay friends do NOT have to be mutually exclusive.

I read recently that you have acknowledged your company’s financial support of “traditional family” organizations which actively oppose the protection of rights of our gay neighbors. Understandably, the LGBT community is very upset.

However, I will not be forced to choose between my favorite fast-food and my beloved life-long friends who happen to be gay.

I was raised, and am still, a Baptist. You too, I understand, were raised Baptist. Several of my gay Christian friends (yes, Christian AND gay) were also raised as Baptists (two of whom attended a prominent Baptist college; and one of them served as student president of the Baptist Student Union). So, as a Baptist minister, I’m going to reach out to both sides in this squabble and appeal to yours and my friends’ Baptist commonalities and, more importantly, to the honest desire you share to follow Jesus.

First, Mr. Cathy: Let’s get this out of the way – we all know that Chick-Fil-A frequently serves and even employs (though perhaps unknowingly) LGBT individuals. So, even while with one hand the company publicly supports anti-gay organizations, at the same time it enjoys profits from the patronage of gay customers (and quietly from the labor of some gay employees). Hopefully, Chick-Fil-A will never start asking “are you gay?” before serving a customer. Because once you refuse to serve gay patrons, will you then begin to ask questions about sexual habits of your straight customers? Of course you won’t. Not only is that bad business, it’s also not Christian. Therefore, if Chick-Fil-A is willing to accept money from customers who may or may not be gay (because you don’t ask), why not also allow these same folks to be your friends even if you disagree with their decisions?

Second, to my many friends calling for protests and boycotts of Chick-fil-A: we all know that the employees we encounter are good, local people who are working hard to make ends meet. Most of them couldn’t care less if they are handing a chicken sandwich to a straight or gay customer. While wanting to get the attention of the folks up in corporate headquarters, let’s not take our attention away from our neighbors preparing the food and taking our cash and providing for their families.

Many of my gay friends and allies have been burned severely by the Christian community and have no interest in the Christian faith. My plea from faith carries no weight for them. I understand that.

But to my Christian gay friends and allies, instead of boycotting and fighting Chick-fil-A, let’s practice the Golden Rule – we will do unto others as we would have others do unto us if the tables were reversed. Let’s overwhelm Chick-Fil-A with increased business and support.

For my Chick-Fil-A corporate neighbors who believe our LGBT neighbors are the enemies of Christianity, I’d like to remind you of the first part of Romans 12:20: “If your enemies are hungry, feed them. If they are thirsty, give them something to drink.” And I share the second part of the same verse with my LGBT neighbors that by increasing our business with Chick-Fil-A, we’ll be heaping “burning coals of shame on their heads.” In seeking to out-love and out-serve each other, we’ll all share in the shame and we can begin learning to trust each other.

Mr. Cathy, I’d love nothing more that to sit with you and a few of your colleagues at a Chick-Fil-A table in Atlanta and introduce you to three or four of my Christian friends and ministers – who just also happen to be gay. Together we can go around the table and profess our Christian faith and begin to break down the walls that separate us as societal enemies and strangers; together we can be challenged and blessed by each other in a way that surpasses our understanding – as brothers and sisters in Christ. Together we can break bread (er…. chicken) together, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, be united as one in the bond of love.

And, by the grace of God, may our actions bear witness to the world of the reconciling work of Jesus our Lord.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m feeling the need for some waffle fries. I think I’ll invite a gay friend to join me …

A brother in Christ,

Bert

—-
Bert Montgomery is a writer, minister and college lecturer living in Starkville, Mississippi.

 

[Wren]

I disagree with Bert Montgomery on one point. I fully support those who are boycotting Chik-fil-a and not want any of their money going towards organizations that are promoting and legalizing (or trying to) discrimination against homosexuals. (I also support boycotts on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm pro-boycotting because I believe money talks and why fund organizations that you disagree with?)

 

[Puptart]

I disagree with Bert Montgomery on one point. I fully support those who are boycotting Chik-fil-a and not want any of their money going towards organizations that are promoting and legalizing (or trying to) discrimination against homosexuals. (I also support boycotts on the opposite end of the spectrum. I'm pro-boycotting because I believe money talks and why fund organizations that you disagree with?)

I agree with this on the personal level, but I disagree with boycotts stemming from levels of government, be it municipal, state, or federal. The thing about governments is that they speak for ALL the people, even if only elected by a majority.. they still have a responsibility to everyone however, and I don't believe in allowing them to ban organizations or corporations that abide by the law (again what I mentioned in the OP, as long as they aren't discriminating in hiring). Ultimately I believe "less is more" in terms of government, so really that's a political position on my part I suppose. They need to get their noses out of our lives and let us make our own choices.

Even though I disagree with the statements rendered by Chik-Fil-A associates, I also don't agree with someone in the city or the province/state telling me where I can and cannot eat by eliminating the business from setting up shop. That's my choice and I'd be happier being allowed to make it, not to mention that Chik-Fil-A will be hiring and create jobs for people, even if they are people I disagree with on a theological level.

I also see problems stemming from governmental boycott in that it can bite us in the rear in so many ways.. if we say a state or city can ban Chik-fil-A for being anti-gay, what's to stop other cities and states from banning organizations like Planned Parenthood and so on, which provides much needed care to many people. If we say cities and states can ban things based on the philosophy and world-view of the leader of that population body, we're also saying other places can do the same thing based on their world-views, and that's just dangerous depending on what the world-view might be.

 

[Wren]

They are already trying to ban Planned Parenthood across the U.S. Mayors not allowing certain businesses or types of businesses is nothing new. It's usually just not headline making and people don't really pay attention unless they keep up with local governmental news.

 

[Puptart]

They are already trying to ban Planned Parenthood across the U.S. Mayors not allowing certain businesses or types of businesses is nothing new. It's usually just not headline making and people don't really pay attention unless they keep up with local governmental news.

I'm aware, that's why it was fore-front in my mind when I thought about cities or states banning things. Le sigh.

 

[hedrick]

Maybe I've missed some, but the evidence I've seen involves (1) personal statements by the head of the company, (2) support of organizations that have undertaken anti-gay activities, but for which that is not their primary purpose. It seems to me that if we're going to demand this level of purity, there would higher priority boycott targets. E.g. organizations that have caused severe problems for the US economic by unethical actions.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Here's my thoughts on this Chick-fil-A fiasco...taken from my post in another sub forum.

If the mayors of Boston, Chicago, D.C., and San Francisco hadn't spoken up...no one would have heard about the Chick-Fil-A's CEO's statement. This interview happened July 16, this really didn't become an issue until, well a week ago, and some people hadn't even heard of it until yesterday. Brings me to point two, no one is really even sure what this controversy is about. Some people say it's about LGBT rights, some people say it's about free speech, and some it's about both. Really, IMO, leave Chick-fil-A alone...their employees might not share the same opinions as the CEO so why should they have to deal with it? Really, if anyone is ultimately hurting, it's the men and women who have to work at your local Chick-fil-A and have to deal with this now, and if it's helping anyone, it's helping you by boosting your ego by supporting this non-cause.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

Just a few thoughts regarding Chick-Fil-A and related controversies:

1) Mayors who want to ban a business from their cities because they don't like the political views of the company president don't have a legal leg to stand on. Mr. Cathy's views are protected free speech under the 1st Amendment. That's why the ACLU is coming to CFA's defense on this, and why those mayors have all quietly backed down.

2) If those mayors had actual discrimination allegations with evidence, that'd be different. But I'm not aware of any such allegations about CFA.

3) For me, unless what the company is supporting is truly heinous, I don't worry about their political views. I'll use the best products at the best prices, and the company's politics are irrelevant... up to a point. Nazis or the Klan, I'll worry about. But Republican vs. Democrat stuff, or other standard American cultural clashes, no, not interested.

4) An example of that is Ben & Jerry's ice cream. IMO, it's the best ice cream you can buy. The company supports a variety of left wing causes that I oppose (I personally identify with the libertarian right). But I still eat their ice cream. There is no CFA in my town, but if there were and I liked it, I would do the same with them, despite my disagreement with Mr. Cathy.

 

[Jase]

3) For me, unless what the company is supporting is truly heinous, I don't worry about their political views. I'll use the best products at the best prices, and the company's politics are irrelevant... up to a point. Nazis or the Klan, I'll worry about. But Republican vs. Democrat stuff, or other standard American cultural clashes, no, not interested.

I'd say the organizations being supported are quite heinous.

 

[Izdaari Eristikon]

I'd say the organizations being supported are quite heinous.

Such as?