So, can we be free from hate?

[IamRedeemed]

I believe your intentions are absolutely noble and from the heart, however, it seems you have bought into what others are saying Christians are doing, without delving in further to seek to know the truth. No one is beating down a fallen brother or sister. There are none here who claim to be fallen. What is actually being done on a daily basis, (which is why an entire subforum has been dedicated to this particular sin) is that homosexuality is being promoted as blessed by God despite what the Word says. Atheists and those who call themselves Christians, (even while denying the blood of Jesus and some even the resurrection, while others deny the Bible as God's written Word to man) argue from the same side of the fence against Christians, against what God has said, and some who even proclaim Jonathan and David, Elijah and Elisha, Daniel and others were all homosexuals and Christians who hold fast to the Word of Truth are contending for the faith.
Speaking God's Word of Truth in response to lies and fallacies of the devil is not judging,
God has already done the judging and let us know what His judgments are. Those that speak His Truth are only relaying what God has already spoken, so that those who have ears to hear, will hear it.
Most Christians who are contending for the truth as is written in the Word of God, have shown patience, long suffering, kindness, perseverance and the like despite being spoken to in the most venomous ways, enduring false witness and false accusation and the like, so please, before you start to "correct" the "hate mongers" in here, please wander around this forum and do some reading in several threads. Go back even several months and see what is really going on here and where the "hate" is really coming from.

See also 2 Timothy 4:3-4 and Titus 1:15-16 and you'll know why.

God bless.

PS. God does resist the proud, and gives grace to the humble. There is no
forgiveness, if there is no repentance. You will find little if any repentance
in here. What you will find is mostly justification for sin, mocking, scoffing,
rebellion and hard hearts.You will find the lie being called the truth and the truth
being called a lie, evil being called good, and good being called evil.

(All though I no its a sin-who are we to judge them)

I think we should examine our own hearts and attitudes-before ponting the finger at homosexual and lesbians...
Understand the trials and woundings they have endured.
Most have suffered from...Hate,fear,condemnation,rejection
Bullying,ridicule,humiliation by peers,(name calling: [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth]-queer-sissy-dike etc...
Even heavy-handed treatment from christains,and homosexuality is treated as worse than other weighty sins.
The rejection of parents and family,the pain and deep roots of bitterness they have in thier hearts because of rejection.......(Know one knows the heart.......but Jesus Christ)
We are aware that the bible forbids homosexual practices-Leviticus 18:22 - 20:13
You shall not lie a male as one lies with a female....
Genesis 19-The story of sodom&Gomorrah.
Romans 1:25-27 unnatural relations
1 Corinthains 6:9 - 1 Timothy 1:10-homosexuals
Jude 7-8 going after strange fleash...
As christains we have to be more loving-incouranging-holding each other up when one falls...Not hateing all judging your nabours....
We need to look and examine our own hearts first.
Being more gentle-loving-caring-forgiving-kind-not judging others...
God is the judge.......we are not.....
We are all sinners at the end of the day-Not one is right.....but the lord jesus christ himself,is pure-upright-loving-gentle-kind-forgiving-never judging he will never push one away.....
Homosexuals-lebains-theives-liars-muderers-drunks-etc......we must remember he loves them all.....the forgiveness of all sins.

 

[OllieFranz]

Judges 19 as well..that is by far the worst story of the bible..

Judges 19 is proof that Genesis 19 is not about homosexuality. The circumstances are almost identical. (Two strangers come to town. One man takes them into his home in accordance to the hospitality codes. the other men gather outside the home intent on violently "knowing" the visitors.) Only this time the mob is not blinded. One of the visitors is gang-raped and murdered. And the victim of the rape is a woman.

The sex of the victim did not matter to the mob. The men in the mob did not want to make love, they wanted to hurt and humiliate, even to kill. When the leaders of the twelve tribes questioned the Levite about the crime he said:

And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that [belongeth] to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge. And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, [and] thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
Judges 20:4-5
​

He did not say that the Benjamites wanted to have sex with him, or even that they wanted to rape him. he said they wanted to kill him. And that they did force the concubine that she was dead.

Then go back through the Bible with a concordance looking for all the mentions of Sodom. The sins described are those that violate courtesy, hospitality, and love, not those that violate sexual morality.

 

[Texas Lynn]

those of those of us who do not agree with the majority of your views from a Christian standpoint.

It is from one particular, narrow interpretation of Christianity. It is far from "the" Christian viewpoint. It is more correctly described as "a" viewpoint of some Christians and some others.

 

[Texas Lynn]

you define such statements that are shared from Scripture as "hate speech" and "actively seeking to harm" which neither are truthful statements.

Au contraire; to seek to deny basic rights is to seek to harm.

 

[Texas Lynn]

People using the bible to condemn cheeseburgers or interracial dating is not relevant to this discussion.

Those who seek to deny rights to LGBTs while not doing the above are revealed as highly selective Biblical literalists.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Well Jesus did say in Matthew 7:14 that
"strait is the gate and narrow is the way that leads unto life and there
are few that find it."

It is from one particular, narrow interpretation of Christianity. It is far from "the" Christian viewpoint. It is more correctly described as "a" viewpoint of some Christians and some others.

 

[IamRedeemed]

The only thing I seek is to shine the light onto the narrow path that
Jesus refers to in Matthew 7:14, that leads unto life. All other roads lead to destruction.

Let those who have ears, hear the warnings of Jesus.

Au contraire; to seek to deny basic rights is to seek to harm.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Jesus was literally born, was literally crucified and literally rose again,
so that we may literally be forgiven and be literal heirs of the promise of
eternal life when we literally repent and literally follow Him,
literally making Him the Lord of our lives.

Those who seek to deny rights to LGBTs while not doing the above are revealed as highly selective Biblical literalists.

 

[BigBadWlf]

Logical fallacy, I think it's red herring. People using the bible to condemn cheeseburgers or interracial dating is not relevant to this discussion.

The reference to cheese burgers here is the red herring

Despite your protests the use of biblical verses to attack our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters is no different form the use of biblical verses to attack people of color.
Or more simply put:
Person A uses select biblical verses to justify prejudices against one minority
Person B uses select biblical verses to justify prejudices against a different minority
You claim that somehow one of these people is somehow morally justified, when in fact there is no difference between the two except the minority being targeted

Nobody is ignoring anything. What you seem to ignore is the whole basis of this thread and make up some delusion in your mind so you can feel persecuted when nobody here HATES ANYONE, we just have a Christian viewpoint. The hatred is only in your head. You don't want to understand, do you?

So when a member of the KKK quotes biblical verses to justify his personal prejudices you are willing to say that he is not engaging in hate in any way shape or form rather we can expect him to go skipping through the meadow with the children of the family whose yard he just burned a cross in. Maybe they will stop for an ice cream cone…vanilla of course…wouldn’t want to stain the white robes and hood with chocolate

 

[KCKID]

. . .and some who even proclaim Jonathan and David, Elijah and Elisha, Daniel and others were all homosexuals . . .

Don't forget Paul. According to John Shelby Spong, Paul was almost undoubtedly 'gay'. And Spong must know because he has 'Reverend' in front of his name.

 

[BigBadWlf]

I believe your intentions are absolutely noble and from the heart, however, it seems you have bought into what others are saying Christians are doing, without delving in further to seek to know the truth. No one is beating down a fallen brother or sister. There are none here who claim to be fallen. What is actually being done on a daily basis, (which is why an entire subforum has been dedicated to this particular sin) is that homosexuality is being promoted as blessed by God despite what the Word says. Atheists and those who call themselves Christians, (even while denying the blood of Jesus and some even the resurrection, while others deny the Bible as God's written Word to man) argue from the same side of the fence against Christians, against what God has said, and some who even proclaim Jonathan and David, Elijah and Elisha, Daniel and others were all homosexuals and Christians who hold fast to the Word of Truth are contending for the faith.
Speaking God's Word of Truth in response to lies and fallacies of the devil is not judging,
God has already done the judging and let us know what His judgments are. Those that speak His Truth are only relaying what God has already spoken, so that those who have ears to hear, will hear it.
Most Christians who are contending for the truth as is written in the Word of God, have shown patience, long suffering, kindness, perseverance and the like despite being spoken to in the most venomous ways, enduring false witness and false accusation and the like, so please, before you start to "correct" the "hate mongers" in here, please wander around this forum and do some reading in several threads. Go back even several months and see what is really going on here and where the "hate" is really coming from.

See also 2 Timothy 4:3-4 and Titus 1:15-16 and you'll know why.

God bless.

PS. God does resist the proud, and gives grace to the humble. There is no
forgiveness, if there is no repentance. You will find little if any repentance
in here. What you will find is mostly justification for sin, mocking, scoffing,
rebellion and hard hearts.You will find the lie being called the truth and the truth
being called a lie, evil being called good, and good being called evil.

"You can safely conclude you have created God in your own image when it turns out that He hates all the same people you do" - Anne Lamott

 

[lace]

In genesis 19:5 says-They called to lot-where are the men who came to you tonight?
Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.
They were evil-voilent and homosexual.
I

 

[Apollo Celestio]

The reference to cheese burgers here is the red herring

Are you certain? Given one could use the bible to prevent the consumption of them.. You've used this argument before.

Despite your protests the use of biblical verses to attack our gay and lesbian brothers and sisters is no different form the use of biblical verses to attack people of color.

Or more simply put:
Person A uses select biblical verses to justify prejudices against one minority
Person B uses select biblical verses to justify prejudices against a different minority
You claim that somehow one of these people is somehow morally justified, when in fact there is no difference between the two except the minority being targeted

Emotional wording... You see, this is where you screw up. There is no "personal prejudice" or "secret hate". Before I came to this forum, I pretty much believed it was "okay to be gay and all that" because my twin brother is gay. I was convinced by scripture to believe that homosexual sex was sin. I had to accept it, even though I didn't want to because I didn't want my brother to think I was a "fundie". That aside, I still can't make the connection that I'm trying to suppress a minority. What scriptures did people use to condemn people of color? Were they valid? How is it exactly the same, since this is an issue of sexual immorality?

So when a member of the KKK quotes biblical verses to justify his personal prejudices you are willing to say that he is not engaging in hate in any way shape or form rather we can expect him to go skipping through the meadow with the children of the family whose yard he just burned a cross in. Maybe they will stop for an ice cream cone…vanilla of course…wouldn’t want to stain the white robes and hood with chocolate

Discernment, ever hear of it? That's a lame connection.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Judges 19 is proof that Genesis 19 is not about homosexuality. The circumstances are almost identical. (Two strangers come to town. One man takes them into his home in accordance to the hospitality codes. the other men gather outside the home intent on violently "knowing" the visitors.) Only this time the mob is not blinded. One of the visitors is gang-raped and murdered. And the victim of the rape is a woman.

The sex of the victim did not matter to the mob. The men in the mob did not want to make love, they wanted to hurt and humiliate, even to kill. When the leaders of the twelve tribes questioned the Levite about the crime he said:

And the Levite, the husband of the woman that was slain, answered and said, I came into Gibeah that [belongeth] to Benjamin, I and my concubine, to lodge. And the men of Gibeah rose against me, and beset the house round about upon me by night, [and] thought to have slain me: and my concubine have they forced, that she is dead.
Judges 20:4-5
​

He did not say that the Benjamites wanted to have sex with him, or even that they wanted to rape him. he said they wanted to kill him. And that they did force the concubine that she was dead.

Then go back through the Bible with a concordance looking for all the mentions of Sodom. The sins described are those that violate courtesy, hospitality, and love, not those that violate sexual morality.

But it is still called an evil thing which cannot be allowed. Why would he offer something instead? Read 19 and 20, I think it's the whole situation that caused the war, not just one thing or the other.

 

[Phinehas2]

Some seem convinced that God and His saints hate people, this is untrue, God so loved the world that He sent His Son so that all who believed should not perish from sin. I think the problem is if people dont like God for saying what they really want to do is sin, they may well see God as hateful, and believers too.

The other problem is that we see posters trying to dispute every passage of scripture that clealry excludes or condmens same sex unions just so they can say the Bible says nothing about homosexuality, so then can then say same-sex unions are ok. Anyone can do that, it is called disbelief.

 

[BigBadWlf]

In genesis 19:5 says-They called to lot-where are the men who came to you tonight?
Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.
They were evil-voilent and homosexual.
I

" 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. They were haughty and did hateful things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.”
Ezekiel 16: 49-50

 

[Anglian]

The teaching of the Church from the beginning has been that active homosexual behaviour is one of the sins of the flesh along with adultery and fornication. It was not until twentieth century western liberals came along that there was any real argument about this. Their insistence that what had always been taught must be changed to accommodate their wisdom has, in many Churches, been accepted; many other Churches decline to receive this fresh revelation.

It is always puzzling that those who preach tolerance for their own liberal view practice so little of it towards those who do not share it; almost as puzzling as the fact that those conservatives who preach about a God who tells us to love the sinner have so much trouble doing it!

We may end up having to conclude that we are all sinners and all in need of salvation. If we start there, we may be on a better road. Swapping verses from Scripture proves only that we can all find a way of making it accommodate what we think it ought to say. My own Church has taken the view that it is we who should accommodate ourselves to the word of God, not the other way around. However, being sinners, we will usually try to find a way of excusing ourselves; but if we say we have no sin, we lie. Equally, if we evince no love towards our fellow sinners, we show we do not have the Spirit in us.

Our Lord shows us, in the instance of the woman caught in adultery, how we should behave. She is not recorded as having tried to explain away her adultery by citing the various ways one could read the words in the OT, or by saying that that was OK when the children of Israel were in the desert, but hey guys, it's modern times now and we have to move with them. So, there she was, guilty as charged. Did Our Lord deliver a sermon on her or condemn her or pass her by? Of course He did no such thing. He told her judges to cast the first stone - if they had no sin. They did not because they knew themselves for sinners. Next time someone feels like condemning those who are homosexual they might care to follow the example of Our Lord instead.

To be consistent, one might add that those active homosexuals who are Christians might consider imitating the reaction of the forgiven sinner - just as adulterers and fornicators might think of doing the same. To all of us He says turn from your wickedness and be saved; but to all of us He gives the free will to reject Him and to know better.

In peace,

Anglian

 

[KCKID]

In genesis 19:5 says-They called to lot-where are the men who came to you tonight?
Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them.
They were evil-voilent and homosexual.

The story of Sodom and Gomorrha has been explained SO many times - even on this forum - and it has nothing to do with homosexuality per se. It's almost criminal that some people PERSIST in perpetuating the myth that it has. Yes, lace ...Sodom & Gomorrha = homosexuality is a MYTH!

I would suggest, lace, that 1. you remove the blinders of untruth that you're wearing and, 2. read the Genesis story again (have you even read it?), this time WITH UNDERSTANDING.

You need to come back later and retract the erroneous statement that you made and replace it with the REAL reason God destroyed the residents of the twin cities. Hint: Think 'SIN'.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

The story of Sodom and Gomorrha has been explained SO many times - even on this forum - and it has nothing to do with homosexuality per se. It's almost criminal that some people PERSIST in perpetuating the myth that it has. Yes, lace ...Sodom & Gomorrha = homosexuality is a MYTH!

I would suggest, lace, that 1. you remove the blinders of untruth that you're wearing and, 2. read the Genesis story again (have you even read it?), this time WITH UNDERSTANDING.

You need to come back later and retract the erroneous statement that you made and replace it with the REAL reason God destroyed the residents of the twin cities. Hint: Think 'SIN'.

Think, why is that passage in genesis there? Another question, what is the metaphorical reasoning of Lot's daughters taking advantage of him?

 

[Phinehas2]

Dear KCKID,
The account of Sodom says what it says, why do people persist in trying to claim it doesn't implicate homosexuality? It does. The latest dispute on the other thread again claims it is gang rape, yet the text doesnt say gang rape, its says 'yada' to know in this case carnally. Lot offers his daughters without saying thats wicked, so even if one likes to think of this specifically as gang rape the question is why is male-female gang an accpetable alternative to wicked same-sex gang rape.

Now many including myself have been through all the feeble objections to the scriptures which exclude same sex-sex unions such as Genesis 2, Matt 19, Mark 10, Ephesians 5, 1 Corinthians 7, Hebrews 13, and all the feeble objections to the indirect and direct condemnations such as Genesis 19, Judges 19, Leviticus 18 & 20, 1 Corinthians 6, 1 Timothy 1, Romans 1, 2 Peter 2 and Jude 1 and as many Christians now know, it represents much more than a difference of opinion but a major rebellion against the truth of the word of God. Only once when gay and lesbian theologians have disputed all these passages do they try and claim the Bible says nothing about homosexuality, so they havnt got a leg to stand on anyway. Such rank disbelief is not sustainable in the Christian church.