So, can we be free from hate?

[onemessiah]

Jesus wasn't and isn't the church.

Yes, I realize that. I was pointing out how the idea of the church being a "hospital for the spiritually sick" came about.

Jesus > cured the sick (the doctor)
Jesus' followers > "the church" (the place where Jesus cures, or the hospital)

 

[Tissue]

Personally, I find that a lacking definition of the church.

 

[onemessiah]

Personally, I find that a lacking definition of the church.

Not sure I understand...isn't followers of Christ considered the church?
The bible says "where two or three gather in my name...."

 

[Tissue]

Strictly speaking, the church doesn't do everything Christ does. There are certainly parallels, but as I understand it, His life was never suggested as a paradigm for the structure of the church.

Even if it were, we'd be crossing into the realm of metaphor, and things get quite murky around there.

 

[IamRedeemed]

That originated from Jesus. The Pharisees were wanting to know why Jesus was ministering
to sinners. (not to be confused with rebellious sinners as Jesus did not minister to
any such people, as God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.)

Anyway, Jesus replied to the Pharisees, that "those who are well are not in
need of a physician, but those who are sick".

In other words, those who cannot see their sin, do not think they
have a need to be delivered. Those that can see their sin, do and will
receive because they seek, they ask, they knock.
They do not fear the light where our sin is exposed because they love
darkness, but instead love the light and are willing to stand naked
before the Lord and allow Him to pluck up from the roots all things within
them that are not of Him, holding on to nothing. We do not become perfect
in this life, but we are not to have "pet sin", which is any sin that we hold on to
and fight other Christians, ignore the Word of God and do whatever to hold on
to them and attach ourselves to worldly agendas, in an attempt to appease
our consciences which then as the Word reveals to us, become seared
and we fall into error and if we continue in that path, God will send a powerful delusion
and allow us to follow the lies, since we showed Him we love the darkness more than the light
and will be allowed to come to a place where we no longer are be able to see the truth and
fall away unto perdition.

Jesus called the Church to continue in the ministry on the earth and sent
His Holy Spirit that the Church would be able to do all that He did during
His ministry on earth and said also that we would do the things He did and more.

It is unbelief that keeps many Churches from doing these things by the power of the Holy Spirit
through His supernatural gifts as they have bought the lie of cessationalism.

Now even worse are false doctrines and apostate teachings as well as philosophies of men
being welcomed by some Churches who have fallen away from the truth and no longer
endure sound doctrine and is as a poison to the souls of men who listen to it.

Yes, I realize that. I was pointing out how the idea of the church being a "hospital for the spiritually sick" came about.

Jesus > cured the sick (the doctor)
Jesus' followers > "the church" (the place where Jesus cures, or the hospital)

 

[onemessiah]

That originated from Jesus. The Pharisees were wanting to know why Jesus was ministering
to sinners. (not to be confused with rebellious sinners as Jesus did not minister to
any such people, as God resists the proud but gives grace to the humble.)

Anyway, Jesus replied to the Pharisees, that "those who are well are not in
need of a physician, but those who are sick".......

Yep, you got 'er....just didn't feel like making that long of a post about it, lol..

 

[onemessiah]

Strictly speaking, the church doesn't do everything Christ does. There are certainly parallels, but as I understand it, His life was never suggested as a paradigm for the structure of the church.

Even if it were, we'd be crossing into the realm of metaphor, and things get quite murky around there.

It is metamorphical; IamRedeemed was kind enough to provide the particular story I was referencing....

But that's the bible; how it is written....a lot of simple statements expressed in abstract ways.

 

[IamRedeemed]

lol! I hear ya! Sorry for the long post. I think that is my trademark lol!

Yep, you got 'er....just didn't feel like making that long of a post about it, lol..

 

[IamRedeemed]

Jesus explained why that is as well, when the Disciples asked him why He speaks to the people in parables. It is because the people have hardened their hearts, closed their minds, shut their eyes and refuse to hear, so He spoke in parables so that only the earnest would be able.

Matthew 13:9-18
Who has ears to hear, let him hear. And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why do you speak unto them in parables?
He answered and said, "Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given. For whosoever has, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever has not, from him shall be taken away even that which he has. Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing, see not; and hearing, they hear not, neither do they understand. And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, (which is Isaiah)which says, By hearing you shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing you shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.
For verily I say unto you, That many prophets and righteous men have desired to see those things which you see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which you hear, and have not heard them.
Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.

..........And He goes on to give them yet another parable.


It is the Holy Spirit who will give those who truly want to
understand, truly want to see, truly want to hear, the ability
to do so. For if they do, then they will see, hear and understand
will turn from their wickedness and Jesus will heal them.
Such is the position, we who do now see, hear and
understand were once.


1 Corinthians 6:9-11
Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but you are now washed, but you are sanctified, but you are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

It is metamorphical; IamRedeemed was kind enough to provide the particular story I was referencing....

But that's the bible; how it is written....a lot of simple statements expressed in abstract ways.

 

[onemessiah]

lol! I hear ya! Sorry for the long post. I think that is my trademark lol!

Nothing to apologize for. Passion is a gift to enjoy.
Sheesh, you think you're bad? Oughtta hear me when football or computers are brought up. I'm still talking 15 minutes after I drive the last person out of the room....

 

[onemessiah]

lol! I hear ya! Sorry for the long post. I think that is my trademark lol!

Nothing to apologize for. Passion is a gift to enjoy.
Sheesh, you think you're bad? Oughtta hear me when football or computers are brought up. I'm still talking 15 minutes after I drive the last person out of the room....

 

[Phinehas2]

The nuances are what matter. Some churches make a spectacular show of excluding LGBTs, others of including them.

Are churches for Christians or GLBT's? Sorry but as I cant see such thing as a GLBT in Christian terms, you may be right in asking why churches would exclude something they dont recognise. My church doesn't exclude anyone whoever they think they are if they want to know about Jesus Christ and become a disciple. Of course if they dont want to become disciples they arent really interested in the church.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Are churches for Christians or GLBT's?

The options therein are not mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive.

Sorry but as I cant see such thing as a GLBT in Christian terms

Are you familiar with "Biker Churches" and the like? Do you believe an outlaw biker who becomes a Christian should divest himself of his ride? Do you believe wearing of "colors" like "Bikers for Jesus" is placing the primacy of the Biker culture above that of Christianity?

For some with a middle class righteousness attitude toward Christianity there is some uneasiness about such, but not the sort of viciousness as is expressed toward LGBT Christians.

you may be right in asking why churches would exclude something they dont recognise. My church doesn't exclude anyone whoever they think they are if they want to know about Jesus Christ and become a disciple. Of course if they dont want to become disciples they arent really interested in the church.

The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Some say the outlaw biker who becomes a Christian needs to get a Ford Taurus and a haircut and a shave and put on a pair of Dockers and go to work for Microsoft.

Others see the application of the hymn "Just As I Am" (part of the text is on my profile) as more appropriate. The lesbian theologian Virginia Ramey Mollenkott concluded a sermon on the church's need to accept its LGBT members with that very hymn.

 

[IamRedeemed]

Thank you and rofl!

Nothing to apologize for. Passion is a gift to enjoy.
Sheesh, you think you're bad? Oughtta hear me when football or computers are brought up. I'm still talking 15 minutes after I drive the last person out of the room....

 

[IamRedeemed]

Puleeze....attempting to make a relativistic comparison between those
who ride motorcycles and those who practice homosexuality?

ROFL!!!

The options therein are not mutually exclusive nor collectively exhaustive.



Are you familiar with "Biker Churches" and the like? Do you believe an outlaw biker who becomes a Christian should divest himself of his ride? Do you believe wearing of "colors" like "Bikers for Jesus" is placing the primacy of the Biker culture above that of Christianity?

For some with a middle class righteousness attitude toward Christianity there is some uneasiness about such, but not the sort of viciousness as is expressed toward LGBT Christians.



The proof is in the pudding as they say.

Some say the outlaw biker who becomes a Christian needs to get a Ford Taurus and a haircut and a shave and put on a pair of Dockers and go to work for Microsoft.

Others see the application of the hymn "Just As I Am" (part of the text is on my profile) as more appropriate. The lesbian theologian Virginia Ramey Mollenkott concluded a sermon on the church's need to accept its LGBT members with that very hymn.

 

[catlover]

Are we hateful no matter what, because we don't accept homosexual sex? I'm talking about people here in this forum and their attitudes. Is being loving and being intolerant of sin impossible as what we would call engaging in unrepentant sin yet claiming to follow the Lord? I hope this is a pointless question.

There is a difference between scapegoating gays, the way Hitler did to "undesirables" in society and disagreeing with someone.

Much of what goes on here is like Hitler's propaganda against The Jewish people.

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Evidence?

 

[Texas Lynn]

Puleeze....attempting to make a relativistic comparison between those
who ride motorcycles and those who practice homosexuality?

ROFL!!!

The accusation of "relativism" is a sure sign the speaker has long since lost the argument.

I'm not talking about RUBES [Rich Urban Bikers] but One Percenters (a group of which I suspect you are ignorant of much as you are ignorant of the real lives of LGBTs).

BTW, the use of the term "those who practice homosexuality" is a most unfortunate effort to validate despising those with differing capacities to love. One does not say comporably "those who practice heterosexuality" so it is an obvious effort at slurring people and as such is most regrettable.

Overuse of smilies also does not mask one's lack of erudition.

 

[Texas Lynn]

Evidence?

Hitler accused Jews of being promiscuous, of being all pimps and harlots, and of spreading syphillis just as right-wingers of today villify LGBTs for propaganda purposes. It's all in Mein Kampf.

 

[pgp_protector]

Is God free from hate ?